Closing a futures position at 70700 ADA on margin balance and getting 52000!

[PaperWallet]

Hello guys,
Donno if anybody could have an explanation. It's pretty frustrating, I longed ADA in Binance futures, had an unrealized ETN of about 6400 ADA and an initial balance of 63000 ADA. I decided to close my position, and, surprise, here is my balance at 52000 ADA!! How could such a thing happen? Am sur that at the exact moment I closed that position my margin balance was 70700 ADA.
That was on COIN futures.

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[Bitcoin_Arena]

How long was you position open?
What was your leverage?

I am not familiar with Binance Future trading platform but there a few factors you should look at such as the funding rate and the trading fees. It would be easier to determine what happened if we were looking at the trading logs/trading history.

[PaperWallet]

It was open for about an hour or 2, my leverage was 20x.
trading fees are very low (o.o4%).

Here's a screenshot of my trading history, I hope you can see it. If somebody was to verify the price of ADA at the exact same time of closing, it was not 0.14111. My margin balance, at the exact same time of the closing of that position was 70700 ADA, and I end up with 52000!

[PaperWallet]

I can see the image was not uploaded properly.
Well, I will write it here:
-I bought into the market in long position at the price of 0.14240 for ADA. I had exactly 64452.71 ADA.
-The current positions tab indicated clearly that I bought into the market at price 0.14240.
-I close my position at 12h:51 eastern time.
-Anybody can verify the price of ADA at that time. it was well beyond 0.143 during the entire time of that minute.
-And, the price of my closing position was 0.14111.
-So in fact I have longed ADA, the price went up, and I ended up loosing about 25% of my money at closing my position.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Open ticket with binance support. They are quite fast with responses.

Trying to answer your quesiton. I'm not sure if you longed. Maybe photo will help us to help you (Host your images on https://imgur.com/).

We are talking about this trading pair?
https://www.binance.com/en/delivery/adausd_quarter

[PaperWallet]

Open ticket with binance support. They are quite fast with responses.

Trying to answer your quesiton. I'm not sure if you longed. Maybe photo will help us to help you (Host your images on https://imgur.com/).

We are talking about this trading pair?
https://www.binance.com/en/delivery/adausd_quarter

I did open a ticket support, they're checking this through. Weired situation. And by the way the chart of the support team confirms my claim that that price was 0.143 at the time of the selling, and not 0.14111 the price I had at closing. But they say "since I made a market order I ended up with a loss". As if I had a dedicated price different than that of the market.
Yes I long.
Here's the link for the image: https://imgur.com/a/mIij9sc

Please note that times are in CET. Anybody can verify that at the time of selling price was never to be at 0.14111, within that whole minute.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Please note that times are in CET. Anybody can verify that at the time of selling price was never to be at 0.14111, within that whole minute.

I see that we had a flash crash here with 5% amplitude from 0.143 to 0.136. It happened exactly on 18:51 8/8/2020 right when your sell order was. Maybe in fact you market sell in the moment of extreme low liquidity.

[slaman29]

I've never seen an error yet at Binance margins, it can be confusing but you can always test things out at a very small value and see that calculations are correct.

Anyway, if it's true that you bought (long)  at 0.142x and sold (closed) at 1.411 then you definitely lost money and how much depends on your margin.

As you already contacted support get the full technical details of the trade from backend. Maybe you put in a wrong manual figure? Or as Ty shows above, the flash crash killed you

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Anyway, if it's true that you bought (long)  at 0.142x and sold (closed) at 1.411 then you definitely lost money and how much depends on your margin.

It is not questionable and OP does not question this. He questions the fact that at the moment he pushes market sell button price that was on his screen was 0.143 and account balance was 18k ADA higher (~2k$).

@OP you can try to get refund by blaming network latency (the case that you did not see current price due to lag caused by flash crash). I doubt you will get full refund but 100$-500$ is always better than nothing.

[PaperWallet]

Thank you guys, I will wait for their reply. My margin was 20x, that's 19000 ADA less  which is almost 2.7k$.
Tytanowy Janusz, you understand exactly what happened. But honestly, that's like the crash was triggered by my sell order. With this system, anybody can tell you oh it's a flash crash that nobody can even see it and steal all your money. Was it really that if I long and I'm right I loose, and if I long and I'm wrong I also lose? Really?

Although guys I will be informing you of what Binance final decision will be, but as far as I'm concerned, I sold that position with a margin of 20x, an entry price of 0.14240 and a closing price of more than 0.143.

Until then I completely stopped trading on that platform.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

I see 3 options:

1- you did not check price at the moment of selling (you check if few sec earlier before flash crash) - bad luck
2- network latency bug (you did not see price crash while performing trade because of delay caused by spam of trades) - super bad luck
3- front running - popular strategy in not honest exchanges (even brokers on regulated market). Simply exchange seeing big order coming to orderbook calculate if it is worth to dump price using their coins and create buy order that will be filled with your order (all is done faster than a blink). 0 risk cheat strategy for exchanges. But to be honest i doubt that the biggest, the most trustful, the most influential exchange with more than 1B $ annual profit will try such thing.

[PaperWallet]

I see 3 options:

1- you did not check price at the moment of selling (you check if few sec earlier before flash crash) - bad luck
2- network latency bug (you did not see price crash while performing trade because of delay caused by spam of trades) - super bad luck
3- front running - popular strategy in not honest exchanges (even brokers on regulated market). Simply exchange seeing big order coming to orderbook calculate if it is worth to dump price using their coins and create buy order that will be filled with your order (all is done faster than a blink). 0 risk cheat strategy for exchanges. But to be honest i doubt that the biggest, the most trustful, the most influential exchange with more than 1B $ annual profit will try such thing.

1-Sure hell I did. And by the way, I've never been intoxicated or drunk in my entire life.
2-What is the probability of that happening? Like one in a million?
3-Yes, that's why I go on Binance. Maybe they can do it for some people from time to time. It doesn't have to be that obvious.

There is also something you mentioned about market liquidity. I know what you mean. But how did that liquidity appear just after my trade in a microsecond for the price to go back where it was? If liquidity can appear and disappear in a microsecond upon clicking on that closing trade button, there is no way of verifying liquidity. You just click and hope for the best lol.

[Reatim]

Thank you guys, I will wait for their reply. My margin was 20x, that's 19000 ADA less  which is almost 2.7k$.
Tytanowy Janusz, you understand exactly what happened. But honestly, that's like the crash was triggered by my sell order. With this system, anybody can tell you oh it's a flash crash that nobody can even see it and steal all your money. Was it really that if I long and I'm right I loose, and if I long and I'm wrong I also lose? Really?

Although guys I will be informing you of what Binance final decision will be, but as far as I'm concerned, I sold that position with a margin of 20x, an entry price of 0.14240 and a closing price of more than 0.143.

Until then I completely stopped trading on that platform.

There's no other way to clear this things up, only binance can answer this as Clear as you want, if there's error or there are explanations
why instead you earned from your margin place, you lose instead.

Until then, we will be able to understand how things happened from that margin trade that you made, hopefully they'll give a concrete answer

that will make things clear and precise, hope for the best and you get this things straight.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

There is also something you mentioned about market liquidity. I know what you mean. But how did that liquidity appear just after my trade in a microsecond for the price to go back where it was? If liquidity can appear and disappear in a microsecond upon clicking on that closing trade button, there is no way of verifying liquidity. You just click and hope for the best lol.

If someone market sell few k Cont and eat all order book, trigger stop-loses and over leveraged trades than there is no liquidity short after that (the volume is adequate for this scenario). It appears back seconds after because of arbitrage trading bots, spread/slippage trading bots and others. Possible but it is like u said - very low chance that it happened just before your trade and You didn't see it due to UI lag.

If binance will not take responsibility for this trade (matching engine bug) than try to get something blaming them for p.2 (interface lag bug).

BTW mobile or web client?

[Bitum]

To be honest, I think a lot of ADA, and I also hold the position. I think there will be better times for this coin. Hopefully)

[Mrengage]

It was open for about an hour or 2, my leverage was 20x.
trading fees are very low (o.o4%).

Here's a screenshot of my trading history, I hope you can see it. If somebody was to verify the price of ADA at the exact same time of closing, it was not 0.14111. My margin balance, at the exact same time of the closing of that position was 70700 ADA, and I end up with 52000!

Probably why not explain better using some pictures, screenshot everything from when you get in the trade and at the recent issue that has taken place now.

Your image link is not correct I will advice if you want to post up images on bitcointalk.org,take your time on the platform you will understand.  visit: Imgur here! and create an account for your self

[tbterryboy]

There was possibly the reason out there already, it was figured out. Your sell was so big in the ADA margin trading world that you yourself alone just managed to crash it for a second all by yourself.

Obviously it recovered but the liquidity was low and that is why it went down super fast which caused you to drop in profit. Do not forget, when you make your calculations you make it on the price that you want to get out of, not the market price, when you get out with the market price however you end up with lowering and lowering your entry point until you are totally out but that could mean that you would lower yourself into a loss as well.

There was a ton of examples with ETH for example when it flashed crashed to cents and jumped right back up because of arbitrage as well.

[PaperWallet]

There was possibly the reason out there already, it was figured out. Your sell was so big in the ADA margin trading world that you yourself alone just managed to crash it for a second all by yourself.

Obviously it recovered but the liquidity was low and that is why it went down super fast which caused you to drop in profit. Do not forget, when you make your calculations you make it on the price that you want to get out of, not the market price, when you get out with the market price however you end up with lowering and lowering your entry point until you are totally out but that could mean that you would lower yourself into a loss as well.

There was a ton of examples with ETH for example when it flashed crashed to cents and jumped right back up because of arbitrage as well.

That's a possibility. It would be a sucker thing. It's like money transfer. But as I already said, if liquidity can disappear and reappear like that in a microsecond, it would be impossible for anybody to verify liquidity. It just disappears when you want to make the trade and leaves your money for the exchange, and then reappears immediately after for other suckers. It's quite laughable.

[Kelvinid]

Supposedly, it was not a thing to happen at your ends, you make it before the lags happen and that was surprising how it changed. Should they have to refund it if you can show some proof to them, maybe your trading history will be enough to recon it? Because it was not your fault and the fees couldn't be a reason or you have mistakenly hit the button but that was their system failure.

Your best option, for now, is to wait for their reply, it for sure they will turn back your money if they'll find it wrong.
TBH, there is too much risk when we keep our money in exchangers.

[PaperWallet]

I got their answer. They said there was not much liquidity, and no refund. Ok, it's their decision. But at least, in my opinion, for that "trade" button, there should be some kind of warning sometimes, or perhaps they could replace the button "trade" by "make a donation".

And there is also something weird I noticed when I first made the limit long order. At the exact same time (like in 0 microseconds) I made my long order, I see appear, right behind my order, about 5 orders, of the EXACT SAME amount of my order, but each one a cent cheaper one after the other. As my order was being filled and amount diminished, those orders' volumes continued to be the exact same volume of my order. Can somebody explain this phenom?