A vaccine too early could be dangerous.

[Charles-Tim]

Is Russian vaccine (sputnik-V) not too early for 3rd phase testing? Russian officials have said they plan to start mass vaccination in October which is considered too early for the phase 3.

Phases of vaccine testing and approval
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html
Clinical development is a three-phase process. During Phase I, small groups of people receive the trial vaccine. In Phase II, the clinical study is expanded and vaccine is given to people who have characteristics (such as age and physical health) similar to those for whom the new vaccine is intended. In Phase III, the vaccine is given to thousands of people and tested for efficacy and safety. Many vaccines undergo Phase IV formal, ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed.

There are thousands of people that will be given the vaccine during the phase three. From BBC news, I read these comments:
BBC News - Coronavirus: Russia calls international concern over vaccine 'groundless'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53751017

On Wednesday, Germany's health minister expressed concern that it had not been properly tested.

"It can be dangerous to start vaccinating millions... of people too early because it could pretty much kill the acceptance of vaccination if it goes wrong," Jens Spahn told local media.
"Based on everything we know... this has not been sufficiently tested," he added. "It's not about being first somehow - it's about having a safe vaccine."

Elsewhere in Europe, Isabelle Imbert, a researcher at the French National Centre for Scientific Research in Marseille, said promising a cure too early could be "very dangerous".
We do not know the methodology or the results of their clinical trials," she told Le Parisien.

And in the US, the country's top virus expert, Dr Anthony Fauci, said he doubted Russia's claims.
"I hope that the Russians have actually definitively proven that the vaccine is safe and effective," he told National Geographic. "I seriously doubt that they've done that."

Meanwhile the Moscow-based Association of Clinical Trials Organizations (Acto), which represents the world's top drug companies in Russia, urged the health ministry to postpone approval until after phase-three trials.
Acto executive director Svetlana Zavidova told the Russian MedPortal site that a decision on mass vaccination had been carried out after combined first- and second-phase tests on 76 people, and that it was impossible to confirm the efficacy of a drug on this basis.

What do you think about this?

Despite rapid progress, most experts think any vaccine would not become widely available until mid-2021.

[yazher]

I don't know about this but our president seems to don't really care about that vaccine from Russia which might be the first vaccine will be shipped to our country. Our president told us to remove the doubt in our heart he will take the risk to be vaccinated first. because he really doesn't have some trust issues with Russia. He said on the media conference that Russia will give the Vaccine for us for free. While everyone has different views with the Russian vaccines, Our President will be the first Pilipino to try the vaccine.



https://www.dw.com/en/philippines-duterte-volunteers-to-be-putins-coronavirus-vaccine-guinea-pig/a-54523030

[franky1]

no

russia done phase 2 (few humans)
russia is doing a (few thousand) mass test in october.. thus it IS THE PHASE 3.. its not millions its thousands
thy are limiting it to jsut doctors and teacher who can give more reliable answers

you seem to have created a new topic to say the same misguided stuff that was said in another topic.


the UK and US had not even completed phase 2
the UK and US already started making large batches for multiple milllions

UK stated phase 3 before even finishing phase 2

russia is waiting 2 months to begin phase 3 because that is actually better time to see if there are after effects of phase 2 even after passing phase 2 last month

strangely america and UK skipped more steps but are not ahead of russia.. and thats what scares them

[franky1]

heres another funny thing
if russia say mass(3k people) panic and pointy fingers of how thats bad to do 3k

if america do mass(30k) aww its ok they good boys' let them do it

funny how people think 3k russian teachers and doctors is 'mass' and 'dangerous'
yep they competed phase 2 in july.. and waiting until october to get even better safety measures of after effects. and then in october they will do 3k teachers and doctors

sounds ethical to me
heck rusian has yet to even make millions of doses for phase 4

[Jet Cash]

If your president is stupid enough to try an untested and rushed vaccine, then you need to get rid of him.
Especially as he probably has natural immunity already

[OgNasty]

Rushing out a vaccine seems like our best chance at a zombie apocalypse, so I support it. Just don’t expect me to take it. I fear I will soon be labeled an anti-vaxxer for not wanting to take a vaccine for (what is to me) a harmless virus.

[philipma1957]

Rushing out a vaccine seems like our best chance at a zombie apocalypse, so I support it. Just don’t expect me to take it. I fear I will soon be labeled an anti-vaxxer for not wanting to take a vaccine for (what is to me) a harmless virus.

Even with my wife getting 2x pneumonia last winter from a very likely early case of covid-19.

Neither one of us will be taking a vaccine until at least six months of other people taking it.

We both got sick in Jan 2020 both tested negative for the flu.

My wife was sicker then me. Four days in hospital.

Some lung damage
a fever all of Jan and February .
Fever stopped mid march.

All before the lockdown. No covid tests available so we don’t know what got her sick.

we have since both tested negative for antibodies but I simply won’t let myself and my wife be lab rats for a vaccine.
  My wife still has some lung damage.
Her racing heartbeat has returned to normal.
We are dealing with her 7.5 month long post nasal drip 💧. which has slowed her lungs from healing.

   So do I think the disease is real yeah.
Do I think it is dangerous yeah for some. As five of my wife’s cousins located in NJ NY CT caught it.
Three went to hospital for long stays. One spent 22 days on a ventilator.
So I suspect my wife and her cousins may have a genetic weakness to it.


I was pretty sick but got better with just 10 days of antibiotics. We still will not be first in line for this vaccine 💉.

 Maybe I would take it a year after it comes out.

[Gyfts]

It'd be safer to go out and infect yourself with coronavirus and build up the antibodies through natural immunity than take a shady vaccine that was pumped out in a few months by Russia's shitty clinical research standards.

Former FDA chief would not take Russian vaccine - https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/11/ex-fda-chief-scott-gottlieb-cautious-on-russias-coronavirus-vaccine.html

[samputin]

I don't know about this but our president seems to don't really care about that vaccine from Russia which might be the first vaccine will be shipped to our country. Our president told us to remove the doubt in our heart he will take the risk to be vaccinated first. because he really doesn't have some trust issues with Russia. He said on the media conference that Russia will give the Vaccine for us for free. While everyone has different views with the Russian vaccines, Our President will be the first Pilipino to try the vaccine.

<...>

Our President really have some guts doing that. That is a huge risk. Have he thought of it very well? Because some experts in our country, and even WHO is not satisfied with the vaccine being released that early. I mean, yes we all want this pandemic come to an end as soon as possible but if it's not that effective, then what would happen? It might even cause more danger than cure. Better safe than sorry, right?

[udemy_0]

That is so true. Side effects won't be visible within a month or two and it could seriously harm organs. Short story, I couldn't agree more with OP.

[Jet Cash]

Our President really have some guts doing that. That is a huge risk. Have he thought of it very well? Because some experts in our country, and even WHO is not satisfied with the vaccine being released that early. I mean, yes we all want this pandemic come to an end as soon as possible but if it's not that effective, then what would happen? It might even cause more danger than cure. Better safe than sorry, right?

He probably wants to reduce the population, and pick up some benefits from the Pharma elite.

[bitsurfer2014]

I don't know about this but our president seems to don't really care about that vaccine from Russia which might be the first vaccine will be shipped to our country. Our president told us to remove the doubt in our heart he will take the risk to be vaccinated first. because he really doesn't have some trust issues with Russia. He said on the media conference that Russia will give the Vaccine for us for free. While everyone has different views with the Russian vaccines, Our President will be the first Pilipino to try the vaccine.



https://www.dw.com/en/philippines-duterte-volunteers-to-be-putins-coronavirus-vaccine-guinea-pig/a-54523030

In light with this development, the Philiipines will also do a simultaneous Phase 3 vaccination together with Russia which I think will be  good news to hasten up the vaccine trial and to come up with a better assessment if its really safe or not.

I think this will be good if more Governments will cooperate and are willing to do local Phase 3 vaccination with the Russian vaccine so that we may have a better understanding of its efficacy and safeness. Imho.

https://mb.com.ph/2020/08/12/phase-3-clinical-trials-for-sputnik-v-simultaneous-in-moscow-and-manila-dost/

[Juggy777]

no

russia done phase 2 (few humans)
russia is doing a (few thousand) mass test in october.. thus it IS THE PHASE 3.. its not millions its thousands
thy are limiting it to jsut doctors and teacher who can give more reliable answers

you seem to have created a new topic to say the same misguided stuff that was said in another topic.


the UK and US had not even completed phase 2
the UK and US already started making large batches for multiple milllions

UK stated phase 3 before even finishing phase 2

russia is waiting 2 months to begin phase 3 because that is actually better time to see if there are after effects of phase 2 even after passing phase 2 last month

strangely america and UK skipped more steps but are not ahead of russia.. and thats what scares them

@frank1 these kind of posts is exactly why I love reading posts here, because I get unbiased information relating to global politics.

Furthermore I have to admit that prior to reading your post I too was under the impression, that Russia was wrong to announce that they had a cure, and I thought that they were immediately manufacturing it, but now it makes sense that they’re actually taking precautions before manufacturing it.

Lastly I’m not surprised to see that the media is painting them in a bad picture as usual, because like you said US and UK cannot allow Russia to succeed even in unprecedented times like this.

[Gyfts]

I'm by no means an "anti-vaxxer", but I've never had a flu shot, and I won't be getting the covid vaccine either.

Be prepared to be called an anti-vax right wing nut job for the fact you won't be getting injected by a shady vaccine that was developed by some drunk Russians.

[fortunecrypto]

Two things either they will lose their reputation if there is a side effect on their vaccine because of not enough time of giving the vaccine to take full effect or the world will praise them as the first country to create a safe effective vaccine for CoVid, of course, they have taken all consideration and they want to choose the latter but they seems to be so sure about its effectiveness so let's see they will start manufacturing I believe in October.

[yazher]

Yeah, we both know he isn't going to do that though. I remember watching the presidential debates and when asked about what he would do to stop China from occupying Filipino islands in the Spratlys, he said he would take a speedboat out there, plant a Philippines flag in the middle of the island, and let the Chinese do with him what they will. Meanwhile, he's rolled over to China and given up the fight for Filipino sovereignty of the Spratlys near completely.

It's not a criticism of him in that regard so much as pointing out that in many ways he is just another politician who makes promises that won't be kept.

Remember what happened with the Dengue fever vaccine in the Philippines as well, its a cautionary tale about why vaccines shouldn't be rushed out for use without fully understanding their potential side effects:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/05/03/719037789/botched-vaccine-launch-has-deadly-repercussions

I don't really think that I'm gonna get that vaccine anyway because I live in some part of the country where people don't even know what Computer is, literally. If something bad would happen to the others after getting vaccinated, I would be watching them from the distance can't do anything about it. That's right, most of the children who got vaccinated of the Dengue fever last time got some complicated desease which leads to some of them to death. Now this is another thing though the president now is different from the last time, there will be a possibility that the history will be repeated.

[Dorodha]

In fact, it could be very dangerous as UNICEF warned in a recent statement that children across South Asia in the Corona situation could face another health emergency if they do not receive life-saving vaccines. About 98 percent of these children live in India Pakistan and Afghanistan. The lockdown that has been effective against Covid-19 is severely hampering the regular immunization activities of children. If it has some side effects then there is a risk of liver cirrhosis and liver cancer from chronic hepatitis.

[virasog]

If your president is stupid enough to try an untested and rushed vaccine, then you need to get rid of him.
Especially as he probably has natural immunity already

There should be no rush in adopting the vaccine. If the vaccine is announced, many people will inject it to be safe from covid 19 and if it has side effects, that could be more worse than the virus itself.
Also there should no competition among the countries to score the points by announcing that they have developed the vaccine first. Vaccine should not be treated as a show stopper.

[Jet Cash]

There is not a good reason to worry a coronavirus vaccine

There are several reasons. It is apparent that there will never be a vaccine that can cope with the virus mutations, so all that research is a waste of resources and public money. The worries come from the fact that vaccines create cripple, and long term health problems, and those people will be a burden on society. Of course they will be a source of profit for the money Pharmers, and this is why they do it. My other concern is that they may make vaccines mandatory, and thus create a dependence  on synthetic and unnatural immune systems. This will allow the banking elite to control the life span of citizens. Covid is a really minor infection, and as evidence of this, the UK is dismantling the nightingale hospitals, and this is despite the fud about a second dramatic wave that will destroy humanity.

[franky1]

wait
wasnt jetcash the one saying that people must be immune if they had previously got sick from sars/mers years ago.. thus debunking himself by now confessing that when viruses mutate and are no longer the exact strain of sars/mers that people are not protected

wasnt jetcash the one saying people wont get sick so there is no harm. even now by trying to incite that rhetoric in connection with nightingales
is he that ignorant of the multi organ issues


the dismantling of the nightingale is because the nightingale was only set up with oxygen therapy. its now known (since february's plans are now defunct) that covid puts a strain on multiple organs for those needing hospital care and other treatments to care for the multiple organs are needed which is where proper hospital care is needed.

this means that because nightingale is defunct. it will mean we are again relying on purely hospital beds again meaning we dont have excess beds as a backup meaning that a sharp rise in cases needing hospital care will over run the hospital system again. thus requiring to need to slow down the spread