PayPal/Venmo are going to become bitcoin vendors?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I didn't know if this thread should be in Economics or Exchanges, but the thread I drew inspiration from was in the former.  Mods, please move it as you see fit.

I just read this article from Coindesk, which was from June, but I hadn't heard anything mentioned about it on the forum (where I get most of my crypto news).  Am I the only one who's feeling just a tad bit excited about the prospect of being able to buy & sell bitcoin through PayPal/Venmo?  I fully understand that if you're not the type who likes KYC it won't be your thing, but right now I personally have no way to purchase bitcoin through a service like this.  Coinbase isn't an option, since they nuked my account years ago.

From the article:

Fintech giant PayPal plans to roll out direct sales of cryptocurrency to its 325 million users, according to three people familiar with the matter.

Currently, PayPal can be used as an alternative means for withdrawing funds from exchanges such as Coinbase, but this would be a first in terms of offering direct sales of crypto.

“My understanding is that they are going to allow buys and sells of crypto directly from PayPal and Venmo,” a well-placed industry source told CoinDesk. “They are going to have some sort of a built-in wallet functionality so you can store it there.”

It is unclear which or how many cryptocurrencies would be available. The industry source said they expected PayPal “would be working with multiple exchanges to source liquidity.”

A second source confirmed that PayPal is looking to offer buying and selling of crypto and said the service could be expected “in the next three months, maybe sooner.”

I have a PayPal account already, but I went ahead and signed up for Venmo just in case this thing becomes a reality. 

Curious to hear the community's opinion about this.

[hatshepsut93]

I'm not excited, because I doubt that they will offer better terms than centralized exchanges. Probably they'll slap some 3-5% fee, and selling Bitcoin will be the same pain in the ass as with Bit Pay. They'll likely not going to touch crypto themselves and outsource it to some other company, which would be the reason for high fees and poor customer support.

[bitsurfer2014]

Paypal used to denounce crypto from the past and saw it as a competition to their business model but I'm not surprised if they suddenly embrace crypto and I think it a wise move since it will be both beneficial to both Paypal and the crypto industry.

Now I could only imagine the impact it could do once Paypal implements this plan because it can potentially on-board or introduce a significant chunk of its customer base to cryptocurrency. Imho.

[Darker45]

We've already had a few threads on this particular topic created around the time this news broke out. A couple of them are linked below. I can remember there was at least another one in the Press board under the Bitcoin Discussion section.

• https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5257462.0
• https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5257445.0 (the article linked in the OP of this thread is the same one in yours)

Anyway, everything's speculation for now. We'll wait for it to eventually unfold. If it happens, it is kind of a bittersweet development probably. At least it provides another option to Bitcoin and altcoin buyers, although privacy will have to be relegated as a secondary concern should they decide to use PayPal/Venmo's services.

[crypto1010]

I read somewhere back then that PayPal was kinda against crypto, but I guess that's really how massive technologies are when they were still new. Anyways, it's great to see PayPal finally opening their eyes and seeing the amount of transactions that can happen inside PayPal if they start integrating crypto in it. Not to mention the adoption side of things too. Very similar to how banks are against crypto back then, and how tables have turned with the bank in Lithuania doing their own coin through the NEM ecosystem. Fiat will always be the global currency but crypto will slowly sneak in.

[Upgrade00]

Many believe this to be a great news for bitcoin owing the high number of users on PayPal and Venmo, but PayPal has been used as an indirect method for transacting in bitcoins on Paxful and coinbase. Bitccoin has also become quite popular globally and potentially majority of users on both platforms would have heard about it or are using it, this means it will not be opening the network to a new market.

Another perceived advantage is that it makes it easier for one to handle bitcoins (buying, selling and holding) this would however come with side effects;
• Centralization issues - it's unclear how they would go about it or if they would at all. But, NOT your private keys, NOT your BTC. If they could restrict transactions at will, that will be a problem.
• Cost of transactions
• Personal information privacy - a hack on someones profile could break their pseudo anonymity and personal identity could be linked to addresses they own.

[avikz]

I read somewhere back then that PayPal was kinda against crypto, but I guess that's really how massive technologies are when they were still new. Anyways, it's great to see PayPal finally opening their eyes and seeing the amount of transactions that can happen inside PayPal if they start integrating crypto in it. Not to mention the adoption side of things too. Very similar to how banks are against crypto back then, and how tables have turned with the bank in Lithuania doing their own coin through the NEM ecosystem. Fiat will always be the global currency but crypto will slowly sneak in.

Indeed! Paypal was once against the cryptos like many other banks worldwide. However, they have now understood the business and also understood that if they do not leap into crypto, slowly they will become extinct from the world of payments. That's why they have changed their stance towards it and now all set to welcome cryptocurrencies into Paypal system to be used by the global user base.

It seems they have already started their crypto services in selected countries. This is what I found in their US website,

https://publicpolicy.paypal-corp.com/issues/blockchain

Definitely KYC related matters will come with its own risk and there are millions of people who wouldn't like to go through that process. But it's no denying that crypto will slowly go mainstream with such initiative from global financial giants!

[Coyster]

Curious to hear the community's opinion about this.

If not for anything, for adoption it's a good news; quite a lot of users will prolly not buy via payPal if and when it's up and running, some users aren't even comfortable using centralized exchanges and this service is going to be as centralized as it goes, with KYC and all, Tx fees is also another clog.

Just like the news about MicroStrategy the other day, what I like about this is the mainstream growth, places to purchase bitcoin increasing and firms taking U turns to accept bitcoin; every service cannot be comfortable for all, there are still quite a lot of users that will use PayPal for this as it's in their comfort zone, adoption increases as well and all that is great.

[exstasie]

I'm not excited, because I doubt that they will offer better terms than centralized exchanges. Probably they'll slap some 3-5% fee, and selling Bitcoin will be the same pain in the ass as with Bit Pay. They'll likely not going to touch crypto themselves and outsource it to some other company, which would be the reason for high fees and poor customer support.

I'm not excited as a consumer (there's no way I would buy crypto through Paypal) but you've got to admit, it would be pretty great exposure. A lot of people probably avoid BTC investment because of the unfamiliar and untrustworthy exchange space. Having the option to buy right in the Paypal or Venmo app would completely change that. Their brands and user reach are bigger than any other company that has entered the exchange business so far. So it's a double whammy: not only could they make BTC more accessible to the average pleb (not to mention advertising it) but they add an air of legitimacy to the entire space.

[hatshepsut93]

I'm not excited as a consumer (there's no way I would buy crypto through Paypal) but you've got to admit, it would be pretty great exposure. A lot of people probably avoid BTC investment because of the unfamiliar and untrustworthy exchange space. Having the option to buy right in the Paypal or Venmo app would completely change that. Their brands and user reach are bigger than any other company that has entered the exchange business so far. So it's a double whammy: not only could they make BTC more accessible to the average pleb (not to mention advertising it) but they add an air of legitimacy to the entire space.

It really depends on how much people outside of crypto distrust exchanges. These days people are really used to trying new services and apps, so it might not be the problem, and everyone who wanted to get into crypto already did. Maybe PayPal will attract users who were never interested in crypto in the first place, kinda like when you go to a supermarket and end up buying stuff you didn't intend to. But for that the option to buy crypto needs to be highly visible to users, if it will be hidden a lot of users won't even know it exists.

[BrewMaster]

I read somewhere back then that PayPal was kinda against crypto,

bitcoin can easily replace severely flawed payment systems such as Paypal, there is even hints in the paper (charge back scam done in Paypal) about the flaws in these systems that bitcoin solves, specifically for merchants that gain an extreme level of security and protection compared to other options.
so obviously they are scared of it and don't want to see bitcoin adoption grow too fast. but when it is growing whether they want it or not, they would like to get some money out of this which is why i think they will charge bigger fees to let people trade cryptocurrencies.

[gentlemand]

The big one is whether you can deposit or withdraw the real deal. The more obvious route is for you to have an entry on their database called 'bitcoin' and not much more. That clears up a lot of head aches for them and maybe what most of their customers would actually prefer. Revolut do this and eToro started off doing it too.

Any service that people are already familiar with is going to bring in more people than a service they have to find and learn about. It would be a shame if they didn't offer a full choice of possibilities for users to grow with.

[Lucius]

I personally look at this move very positively, because if you follow what is happening in the world in terms of availability and adaptation of cryptocurrencies then we can see that banks in the EU and USA are entering this business segment - and that in several EU countries it is possible to trade cryptocurrencies via post offices or, as is the case in Switzerland, on devices for the purchase of railway tickets.

PayPal is just one company that is always looking for ways to increase profits, and if Bitcoin can help them do that, it makes sense to include it in their business. As for KYC, everyone who has an account with PP must verify it (add a bank card) so that more or less all users of this service are already somewhat verified, so the only question left is the fees that PP will charge when buying/selling and deposits/withdrawals.

So it's a double whammy: not only could they make BTC more accessible to the average pleb (not to mention advertising it) but they add an air of legitimacy to the entire space.

No one should have any doubts about this, although there is certainly an opponents of this model of spread among the masses, but I do not see it in a way that harms BTC, on the contrary - it definitely shows that it has value and application in everyday life.

[suchmoon]

The only way I can see this making sense for PayPal is if they can push out some competitors by accepting BTC payments via their checkout service. For merchants to be able to say "we accept BTC" without lifting a finger (if they already accept PayPal) would be quite neat and might help adoption in general but at the expense of crypto payment processors.

Perhaps allowing their customers to buy/sell BTC is part of this world domination plan.

[Sanugarid]

The only way I can see this making sense for PayPal is if they can push out some competitors by accepting BTC payments via their checkout service. For merchants to be able to say "we accept BTC" without lifting a finger (if they already accept PayPal) would be quite neat and might help adoption in general but at the expense of crypto payment processors.

Paypal and Venmo will act like the prototype for some smaller companies, since it was the first time, they still need to check if it will bring good or bad in terms of their businesses. If things turns to be cautious for the others then they might just stick from traditional. And who will spend bitcoins these days? excluding those wealthy people, if you're just normal hodler of bitcoin you won't check your orders out using bitcoins. Indeed it might trigger the adoption, these companies are huge, if merchants would see this move of paypal they will probably file their own crypto system patent too.

Perhaps allowing their customers to buy/sell BTC is part of this world domination plan.

bitcoin is running wild now in the world, that's the reason why they are coming up with this, they adapt what's on the internet for bitcoin to be adopted.

[gentlemand]

The only way I can see this making sense for PayPal is if they can push out some competitors by accepting BTC payments via their checkout service. For merchants to be able to say "we accept BTC" without lifting a finger (if they already accept PayPal) would be quite neat and might help adoption in general but at the expense of crypto payment processors.

That would be a more significant development than being just another place to buy and sell. Payment processing really hasn't moved very far and there are no recognisable names involved. It's doubtful whether it would encourage more actual usage at present but it does reduce a fair bit of friction for the future.

And, whisper it, it may take a fair bit of business off chain. Whether that's for the best is another matter.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

We've already had a few threads on this particular topic created around the time this news broke out.

Ah, I've been putting Bitcoin Discussion on and off ignore for a while now, so I apparently missed any threads dealing with this.  Sorry for the duplication--I was just excited to see this being mentioned in the press.

Perhaps allowing their customers to buy/sell BTC is part of this world domination plan.

Could very well be, but personally I'd love to have an easy way to purchase bitcoin.  Before Circle stopped dealing with bitcoin (or at least stopped selling it), I used them with no problem and if I remember correctly the fees were extremely low.  There hasn't been a service that's popped up to take their place, which I find unfortunate as someone who can't use Coinbase anymore.

The big one is whether you can deposit or withdraw the real deal. The more obvious route is for you to have an entry on their database called 'bitcoin' and not much more.

Oh, you mean like what Robinhood offers?  Well, the article seemed to state that PayPal was looking into liquidity providers, which I assume are exchanges, and that leads me to believe that the customer would be dealing with real bitcoin and not a placeholder.

[gentlemand]

Oh, you mean like what Robinhood offers?  Well, the article seemed to state that PayPal was looking into liquidity providers, which I assume are exchanges, and that leads me to believe that the customer would be dealing with real bitcoin and not a placeholder.

That was my presumption, but that's the first time I've seen Bitstamp mentioned. Even then it might be straight from Bitstamp into a custody provider and that'll be that but that article also has talk of wallets and buying and selling.

We'll see soon enough. If it is a proper set up it'll be interesting to see how competent and rounded it is. And uptight of course.

[dothebeats]

If you want some quick btc on the fly, this could be your thing. But then knowing how their business model is made up of, expect that they will be asking for quite a fee for successful trades since that is where most of their profits would come from. I remember when Circle was the huge hit when it comes to quick btc trades without having to go through all the hoops, though it's quite unfortunate that they have to stop that particular aspect of their service. Venmo/PayPal might be that service again, although of course with a rather higher fee.

[exstasie]

The big one is whether you can deposit or withdraw the real deal.

That's a big deal for users, but it won't matter much in regards to Paypal's effect on the market.

Even if they are only offering investment exposure and pricing the spread as a market maker (this is the same model as Robinhood Crypto) then they still have to buy spot BTC whenever their customers do, so it will have an obvious effect on the market.