Germany Continues Shutting All Unlicensed Bitcoin ATMs

[thesmallgod]

The Federal Financial Regulation Authority (FFSA) or BaFin, the body responsible for overseeing cryptocurrency service providers, was in the midst of cracking down on both illegal and unregulated Bitcoin ATMs.

According to a Bitcoinnews.com article, the closure accompanies a regulation that took effect last January ordering crypto-service operators to receive BaFin authorization.

German BaFin regulators have found a range of illegal Bitcoin ATMs running in Germany, and at least one firm, the Estonia-licensed Virtual Planet OÜ operated by the Shitcoin Club, has issued an order to halt the activity of Bitcoin ATMs in the region, according to the article.

Another central Bitcoin ATM provider, Coin Fellows, was told to stop all activities in Germany by the end of July.

Bitcoin traders in Germany opposed the closure, arguing that the BaFin criteria are too stringent for small enterprises and are best appropriate to banks and major financial entities.

The U.S. Department of Justice has already started cracking down on illegal bitcoin ATMs and recently confiscated 17 computers in California, according to the article.

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[fiulpro]

The Federal Financial Regulation Authority (FFSA) or BaFin, the body responsible for overseeing cryptocurrency service providers, was in the midst of cracking down on both illegal and unregulated Bitcoin ATMs.

According to a Bitcoinnews.com article, the closure accompanies a regulation that took effect last January ordering crypto-service operators to receive BaFin authorization.

German BaFin regulators have found a range of illegal Bitcoin ATMs running in Germany, and at least one firm, the Estonia-licensed Virtual Planet OÜ operated by the Shitcoin Club, has issued an order to halt the activity of Bitcoin ATMs in the region, according to the article.

Another central Bitcoin ATM provider, Coin Fellows, was told to stop all activities in Germany by the end of July.

Bitcoin traders in Germany opposed the closure, arguing that the BaFin criteria are too stringent for small enterprises and are best appropriate to banks and major financial entities.

The U.S. Department of Justice has already started cracking down on illegal bitcoin ATMs and recently confiscated 17 computers in California, according to the article.

If it was illegal and unregulated they have to be shut down , since it could cause more problems in the future. If in case there was some problem and the person did not know who to go to it would all be futile. Most ATM's are registered, have numbers to contact in case there is some problems and such , please people can even report this to the police.

But when it comes to unregulated ATM's it might create a problem , not just for the people or the Government but for the image of Bitcoins itself.

Therefore these ATM's needs to be shut down until and unless the person in charges , registers and clears all the problems but when it comes to people with small businesses they will ofcourse oppose the decision , I do believe the Government should employee a little different strategy for these people.

But they cannot just go around and let illegal ATM's in the public since it would be the responsibility of the Government itself.

[avikz]

It may be a part of larger conspiracy against bitcoin or may not be! But if a government has a set regulation to be follower for all crypto related businesses, that must be followed! Businesses in Germany are lucky because they at least have a guideline to follow while in majority of the other countries, guidelines don't exist and regulators are free to make up any charges against the illegal business operators.

If the rule is very strict for a small business to follow, then that can be addressed through various legislative channels, but ignoring the existing legislation and continuing to run the business, won't definitely bring good results!

[dansus021]

this is one of many that driven people to negative thinking about bitcoin 

the hardware of the ATM itself must be high regulated before out to public to prevent something like this


who the own of that bitcoin atm anyway? that mush be rich person by now unregulated things mean no taxes right

[Yaunfitda]

It may be a part of larger conspiracy against bitcoin or may not be! But if a government has a set regulation to be follower for all crypto related businesses, that must be followed! Businesses in Germany are lucky because they at least have a guideline to follow while in majority of the other countries, guidelines don't exist and regulators are free to make up any charges against the illegal business operators.

No, Germany is one country in Europe wherein crypto is readily accepted. So there's no conspiracy here. And this is one reason why there are so many ATM's in that country, because it is welcome. However, there are some that are going to take advantage so I think this is the right move to get rid of those illegal bitcoin ATM's. If the operators wanted to make it legal, it's very simply, they just have to follow what the government issued regulations and they will be fine.

[Carlton Banks]

1. this is somewhat old news
2. unlicensed operators in Germany are just putting their machines in new locations instead (and changing the company name/branding)

Germany is indeed a big market for ATMs, so it makes it quite easy for the machines to hide amongst the crowd

[bitbunnny]

It may be a part of larger conspiracy against bitcoin or may not be! But if a government has a set regulation to be follower for all crypto related businesses, that must be followed! Businesses in Germany are lucky because they at least have a guideline to follow while in majority of the other countries, guidelines don't exist and regulators are free to make up any charges against the illegal business operators.

If the rule is very strict for a small business to follow, then that can be addressed through various legislative channels, but ignoring the existing legislation and continuing to run the business, won't definitely bring good results!

What conspiracy are we talking about? If the law and regulation say that Bitcoin ATMs need to be lincenced to be legitimate then everything is clear. So basicly, with unlicensed ATMs someone wants to make illegal profit so I don't see anything wrong that government.doesn't want to allow that and that doesn't have anything to do with Bitcoin itself.

[Lucius]

If we know that cryptocurrencies in Germany are very well regulated, and that the laws are very favorable for those who buy and sell them, then the data which shows only 50 crypto ATMs that currently exist in the country is a bit unusual. Which would then mean that there really is a very large number of those illegal ATMs that operate outside the law - which again surprises me that it can happen in a country that has (or should at least have) very good measures to prevent such abuses.

It is not at all clear to me that someone can set up an ATM in a mall or at a train station without obtaining all the necessary permits. It is obvious that there are some loopholes in the law that individuals take advantage of, and given the high fees that crypto ATM devices have (5-10 +%), it is not difficult to imagine how much profit there is.

Bitcoin traders in Germany opposed the closure, arguing that the BaFin criteria are too stringent for small enterprises and are best appropriate to banks and major financial entities.

From the beginning of this year, German banks have the opportunity to apply for a license to operate with cryptocurrencies (sell, store, open crypto accounts), so perhaps it is no wonder that they want to get rid of illegal competition. Big fish always eat small ones anyway, although everyone should have the same conditions to operate in a particular market.

[mk4]

this is one of many that driven people to negative thinking about bitcoin 

the hardware of the ATM itself must be high regulated before out to public to prevent something like this

What did you expect though? It's going to be the same with unlicensed anything. Running bitcoin ATMs or ATMs in general is a business; Not because it's bitcoin related it doesn't mean that current laws wouldn't apply to it.

[Jating]

this is one of many that driven people to negative thinking about bitcoin 

the hardware of the ATM itself must be high regulated before out to public to prevent something like this


who the own of that bitcoin atm anyway? that mush be rich person by now unregulated things mean no taxes right

On the contrary, it makes bitcoin really favourable for average joe if government like Germany are going to regulated it. And I don't think this is enough to say that it attracts negative public perception.

It's business, any country will shut down anything that is deem illegal, and bitcoin ATM's are no exceptions. The thing is how it is easy to setup a bitcoin ATM, I think ATM manufacture should have a duty to at least check those people who are going to acquire their hardware, check the locations and if they comply to the regulatory body before issues the hardware itself.

[Sanitough]

So this means it is allowed to run an ATM machine in the country as long as it's license?
Why are ATM owners not securing their business with license, they are putting their business at risk with their action.

When the government regulate, that means everything should have a license before they can operate, and this is a money thing, AMLC's eyes are looking at them.

[davis196]

Unlicensed Bitcoin ATMs are potential scams that could steal the Bitcoins of many people.
However,the regulations regarding ATMs are way too strict,so the small businesses can't comply with the rules and only the big banks and companies dominate the ATM business,which isn't fair.
The rules should be changed,so the entry barrier for small companies in the ATM business can be lowered and,on the other hand,the ATM customers will be protected from scammers and fake ATMs.
Like one banker said back in 2009:"We don't need more rules.We need better rules"

[tbct_mt2]

So this means it is allowed to run an ATM machine in the country as long as it's license?
~ snip ~
and this is a money thing, AMLC's eyes are looking at them.

Illegal companies can do shady stuffs and they prepare things to avoid their loses (from government shutdowns) than the profits they can get and run away with stolen money from their scams. I agree that ATMs are not like a virus so they can easily be detected by locals, by government staffs. Therefore, if one company decides to do hidden and unlicensed ATMs, they do have bad intention behind. Furthermore, Germany is not a nation from a third world where law regulation is bad.

[ololajulo]

Why do people react to due process in cryptocurrency? I appreciate most of the posts that after the OP to support Legit business especially in crypto. The high members understand the trend in the space and appreciate the control that government brings some times. Germany is one of the conservative government with reasonable leaders, they are not greedy and they allow technology that is revolutionary.

[acroman08]

1. this is somewhat old news
2. unlicensed operators in Germany are just putting their machines in new locations instead (and changing the company name/branding)

Germany is indeed a big market for ATMs, so it makes it quite easy for the machines to hide amongst the crowd

news like this has been reported before in Australia where unregulated and bitcoin ATM scam were rampant. authorities even found an unlicensed bitcoin atm inside a mall.


for those who are interested in the article here is the link https://news.bitcoin.com/germany-closing-down-all-unlicensed-bitcoin-atms

[Sanitough]

So this means it is allowed to run an ATM machine in the country as long as it's license?
~ snip ~
and this is a money thing, AMLC's eyes are looking at them.

Illegal companies can do shady stuffs and they prepare things to avoid their loses (from government shutdowns) than the profits they can get and run away with stolen money from their scams. I agree that ATMs are not like a virus so they can easily be detected by locals, by government staffs. Therefore, if one company decides to do hidden and unlicensed ATMs, they do have bad intention behind.

If they know that it's required to have a license to operate a bitcoin ATM machine, then that's a clear indication that they have bad intention, but maybe there are some who are not aware of the law and they operate an ATM machine in good faith.

Furthermore, Germany is not a nation from a third world where law regulation is bad.

Or maybe the regulation is not clear, or lack of regulation, that's what I know.

[rodskee]

So this means it is allowed to run an ATM machine in the country as long as it's license?
Why are ATM owners not securing their business with license, they are putting their business at risk with their action.

When the government regulate, that means everything should have a license before they can operate, and this is a money thing, AMLC's eyes are looking at them.

Either there's shady things that those facilitator are doing or they can't give what the government
are asking for them.

As based from the article bitcoiners around Germany are  opposing this BaFin since the law according
to them  are too stringent for small enterprises.

The government implemented rules to regulate this kind of business, they are avoiding illegal activities
making sure that using bitcoin is still under their radar.

[Asuspawer09]

It's not really surprising since the Bitcoin ATM was illegal so it should not operate so the government should shut it down.

What's really surprising is how they open Bitcoin ATM without even getting permission or license for it, Still, the news could easily turn bad for every people who don't know bitcoin since it is again involved in some illegal activities. Most of the people is having a bad impression to bitcoin because of this news.

[stompix]

So this means it is allowed to run an ATM machine in the country as long as it's license?
Why are ATM owners not securing their business with license, they are putting their business at risk with their action.

Because once they are asking for the license they must follow the rules and most operators don't want to follow those for multiple causes, some of them, fortunately just a  minority,are installing those just as money laundering scheme, dirty cash gets is deposited there, the company deposits it to a bank and then it's all clean, it cand be sent to an exchange, get more bitcoins and redo the whole thing. Some are avoiding it just because they are not willing to disclose their profits, some are plain stupid and think they can get away with it.

That's why some ATMs get shut down, that's why some exchanges flee from a country toa more relaxed jurisdiction and so on.
The same companies that scream about laws and regulations to boost their business are the same that are trying to ditch them to avoid paying taxes.

It may be a part of larger conspiracy against bitcoin or may not be! B

Stop seeing conspiracies everywhere, this ain't 2012 anymore, Germany has allowed banks to deal with banks, how the hell are their conspiring against Bitcoin by removing some ATM machines?

It is not at all clear to me that someone can set up an ATM in a mall or at a train station without obtaining all the necessary permits. It is obvious that there are some loopholes in the law that individuals take advantage of, and given the high fees that crypto ATM devices have (5-10 +%), it is not difficult to imagine how much profit there is.

The loophole is that to install a machine in a shop or a mall you need two permissions, from the owner of the space, who in most cases doesn't care that much and from the operator of the ATM, which is quite funny. Unlike in the cases of traditional ATMs where if you need to install in a mall an ING ATM let's say you needed permissions from the bank, now the one granting you that is yourself. And malls don't really care about it, if they have enough space they will let you install all the shit possible as long as you pay and you have a registered company, registered only and not a licensed money transmitter or something else since it's not any of their business.
Of course, I'm speaking of my own country but I don't assume laws in Germany are much different as we speak of a deal between two private entities that has nothing to do with anything else than a lease of space.

[plvbob0070]

Expect for the government to take action if it's illegal operating. If they were able to able to crack and confiscate multiple ATMs, it means that there's a lot of illegal bitcoin ATMs operating.

If they want to make business with bitcoin ATM, they should have at least know how to follow rules by the government. I mean, having a license to operate is a part of having a business. If they are one of the bitcoin ATM providers in their country, why can't they get a license first so they can operate without having problems with the authorities.