Why is SegWit and LN adoption still low today?

[franky1]

doomad wants just one dev group being the authority.. yet calls me the totalitarian
doomad says that the communities wishes dont mean nothing and the devs are the only decision maker. and he calls me a totalitarian
doomad gets angry when i reveal LN flaws. but he calls me the troll

i guess if i said cars can cause car accidents he will say i am some anti-car troll.. no im just stating the facts of the issues and risks so people can learn more about safe options. and not just go full speed into situations they are not prepared for

saying the only way to use bitcoin is via LN is doomad saying that bitcoin has faults and LN is superier
(idiot)
saying that people are actually handling btc on LN is another idiotic statement of his

again LN HTLC are 12 decimals.. bitcoin does not have 12 decimals

doomad give up you 2mb is bad mindset of 4 years ago. bitcoin devs have already said 4mb is ok. they said 4mb bloat is ok 4 years ago
its just not utilitised to allow 4x tx compared to the 1mb space. which is where devs went wrong with bitcoin

saying bitcoin should be used for the batched tx of custodians and users should use litewallets and handle millisats on other networks. is the same exact game as banks vaulting up peoples gold and handing them bank notes to circulate. slowly aggregating it so people slowly lose actually holding gold. where they are offered to exchange bank notes for scrap metal coins

its not that opaque whats going on. its very transparent and doomads anger that i have not converted to his mindset reveals how deep he is in the banker model
saying to people to 'f**k off' the network if they are not happy.  or use another network to get what you want is doomads 'freedom defence' where he doesnt want the community actually wanting bitcoin improvements

but reality is bitcoin(the actual bitcoin network) should innovate the bitcoin network. not be trying to push people to other networks.
if devs cant innovate or decline wanting to innovate the bitcoin network. then they can be replaced. oh wait. totalitarian doomad wont want his fangirl idols being replaced. he wants the devs that only innovate to make other networks look worthy(facepalm)

by the way. terrabyte hard drives are cheap. we are not in 2010 we are in 2020 so stop playing the 'it will centralise the network because expensive harddrives' that got debunked ages ago.
we are not in the 1g/56k internet days. we are in the broadband/fiber/5g era

actually making it slow(transaction count limitation) and expensive for normal users(high fee's) to make transactions and telling them to go to other networks will cause more centralisation where only servers are the full nodes of bitcoin. and people are using litewallets on their phones connected to watchtowers and factory servers that manage(bank/custodian) the real currency
but you will never talk/admit to that fact

[MCobian]

In my opinion, SegWit adoption cannot be called low, because if you look at the development chart, SegWit adoption is slowly increasing.
Even from 8 exchanges and the wallets that I use today, 7 of them already support SegWit. So for me SegWit adoption is already high.
SegWit is in high demand because it makes transactions faster and cheaper than legacy systems, which are more expensive and slow.
Regarding Lightning Network adoption I agree it's still low, because it's still new and some people who use the Lightning Network lose
Bitcoin. So risk using Lightning Network is still high.

[DooMAD]

doomad wants just one dev group being the authority

Can't tell if you're lying or just plain stupid.

LN has multiple dev teams.  ACINQ, Elements, Lightning Labs, etc.

Pretty sure Elements is the one you're not fond of, as they seem to be focused more on the corporate and custodial side.


//EDIT:
If you want to continue your ongoing grievances with a particular Bitcoin dev team, kindly find another topic to do that in.  You don't need to derail every LN topic to take pot-shots at the Core devs.  Obviously you have an overwhelming compulsion to keep doing it, because of your broken mind not being able to comprehend why your conduct isn't approrpiate, but I don't see why anyone should entertain your bullshit anymore.

Surely even a moron like you could comprehend that joining a discussion about the Lightning Network and then chiming in with talk about there only being one dev team could be confusing for the uninitiated.  Now stop shitting up the thread with your petty vendetta.

[franky1]

doomad wants just one dev group being the authority

Can't tell if you're lying or just plain stupid.

LN has multiple dev teams.  ACINQ, Elements, Lightning Labs, etc.

Pretty sure Elements is the one you're not fond of, as they seem to be focused more on the corporate and custodial side.  

there he goes again confusing LN with bitcoin
i was talking about your endless crusade about stifling bitcoin by wanting bitcoin totalitarian and telling people to "f**k off" to other networks if they want their 'freedom'

LN is a different network.

[DarkDays]

I don't think I'd call most transactions being SegWit low adoption lol.

For the lightning network, growth has been slow, that's for sure. I think it's simply because of the difficulties of running a node and understanding how lightning channels and pools work.

There also isn't really any major retailers that accept lightning, and only a few exchanges accept lightning deposits—and this is still one of the main reasons why anybody would be sending BTC, to trade it on an exchange.

Until we see more places accept lightning deposits, growth will continue to stagnate.

[Abiky]

I don't think I'd call most transactions being SegWit low adoption lol.

For the lightning network, growth has been slow, that's for sure. I think it's simply because of the difficulties of running a node and understanding how lightning channels and pools work.

There also isn't really any major retailers that accept lightning, and only a few exchanges accept lightning deposits—and this is still one of the main reasons why anybody would be sending BTC, to trade it on an exchange.

Until we see more places accept lightning deposits, growth will continue to stagnate.

I was wrong to think that SegWit adoption was low. Upon doing a little research, I've found that adoption has been increasing faster than I've thoughts. Now we have most exchanges and wallet providers accepting SegWit payments through native SegWit addresses. What's left is for Lightning Network's adoption to grow, in order to reduce the burden on the main Bitcoin blockchain. I believe that most people are still performing on-chain payments due to their ease of use. It's no secret that one needs to have a certain level of technical knowledge to be able to use the Lightning Network for everyday payments. This will affect mainstream adoption of Bitcoin's "Layer-Two" scaling solution as we know it. Developers will need to improve user friendliness in order to make people's lives much easier when using the LN.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't worry too much about LN's adoption since Bitcoin is still working as intended. Those who want lower fees and faster transaction confirmation times could simply resort to Bitcoin-based forks with an increased block size capacity (mainly Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV). Scaling Bitcoin is something optional that would help contribute towards its adoption worldwide. As long as Bitcoin remains decentralized, nothing else matters. Just my opinion

[Carlton Banks]

I was wrong to think that SegWit adoption was low.

depends what you mean by "adoption"

if you look at blocks, then sure, every possible way to measure it shows somewhere around 50% of each block is a segwit spend


But, if you look at the complete blockchain, i.e. every 18 million BTC, only 3.5% of addresses are bech32 (native segwit). There's probably much, much more using the script-wrapped segwit, but it's impossible to know how much it is because the script is wrapped, lol (when you look at spending, when the script is necessarily unwrapped, script-wrapped segwit addresess are usually sending double the number of transactions that bech32 are)

With LN, sure we're in the early days still. There was another layer 2 idea floated recently called Coin Pools, anyone see that? Sounded interesting, still didn't check the detailed information about it.

[aesma]

From my understanding, LN is aimed at micropayments. Those don't really exist in BTC yet, partly because regular BTC payments are too expensive (which is what LN is trying to solve) and partly because BTC adoption is not there yet.

Day to day you buy food, groceries, gas etc., and very rarely can you pay in BTC. When that changes, then LN should thrive.

[mariah.sadio]

Because "true" bitcoiners hates innovation and they think that everything should be as designed by satoshi

[franky1]

With LN, sure we're in the early days still. There was another layer 2 idea floated recently called Coin Pools, anyone see that? Sounded interesting, still didn't check the detailed information about it.

if your talking about taproot 'payment pools' well thats what the 'factories' in LN will be using
not to pay out to individuals. but to get individuals to deposit funds into this custodian(pool) and then the custodian uses taproot so that when the timelocks expire they can settle the channels. broadcast the taproot contract on the blockchain, and create new channels all without revealing the individual amounts each holder has on the blockchain

the issue is these contracts are very bloaty. and gmax knows this which is why he wanted to extend the 'witness' area so much(pretending 4m is still 1mb cludgy code)

the stupid thing is if a user just wants out. and is unco-operative with the 'pool' then the hidden funds get untangled and all is revealed for that user to claim whats theirs independantly.

so the whole purpose is to keep funds in and just using the blockchain to close-reopen channels.
meaning its only a success if people never want out.

talk with the devs is to offer people alternate currencies like LTC as their 'get out' so that it does not harm the taproot contract of hiding the true individual values

other devs are thinking of this factory/payment pool concept for their own private 'reserve banking' between exchanges and not on the main LN.

but payment/coin pools have been a idea(factories) for a while now and its this kinda crap where the individuals become relient on pool/factory managers/custodians. while also turning the blockchain into an unaudible cludge of misrepresented data. that will harm bitcoin

[DooMAD]

With LN, sure we're in the early days still. There was another layer 2 idea floated recently called Coin Pools, anyone see that? Sounded interesting, still didn't check the detailed information about it.

if your talking about taproot 'payment pools' well thats what the 'factories' in LN will be using

Wrong.  Guess again.

The factory and payment pool ideas might be conceptually similar, but they're not the same thing.  Not that I'd expect the master of pseudoscientific technobabble to be able to tell the difference.

You don't need to be using LN to utilise the advantages of payment pools.

[Abiky]

From my understanding, LN is aimed at micropayments. Those don't really exist in BTC yet, partly because regular BTC payments are too expensive (which is what LN is trying to solve) and partly because BTC adoption is not there yet.

Day to day you buy food, groceries, gas etc., and very rarely can you pay in BTC. When that changes, then LN should thrive.

I guess that the LN is just starting to blossom. Fortunately, SegWit adoption is growing at an unprecedented rate paving the way for LN's widespread use in the not-so-distant future. I believe developers would need to work harder on making LN wallets more friendlier to the end user. Only that way, mainstream adoption for the LN will increase at a fast pace. To my surprise, several crypto companies and startups have started supporting the LN. But the "Layer-Two" scaling solution is still behind on-chain payments.

At least, SegWit provides a relief as it provides a discount in fees for on-chain payments. Most BTC wallets nowadays support P2SH and native-SegWit (Bech32) addresses. Even some exchanges have begun accepting SegWit payments, which is a good sign. I have to say that the LN has quite a lot of BTC locked in HTLCs (Hashed Time Locked Contracts). This shows us that there's a huge level of interest/demand into Bitcoin's "Layer-Two" scaling solution. The LN is still experimental, so it cannot be used for large amounts of Bitcoin.  Rest assured that developers are working hard to make LN as secure and resilient as possible. One feature I look forward to is atomic swaps. This would completely revolutionize crypto trading as people will be able to quickly trade from one crypto to another without the need for a decentralized exchange or a third party. Submarine Swaps is also a great upcoming feature for the Lightning Network (LN) which enables users to exchange from Bitcoin to LNBTC in a seamless manner. Slowly but surely, LN's adoption will grow until most businesses and customers use it for micropayments in the mainstream world. Once the LN is stable for mainstream use, Bitcoin would've achieved massive scalability in the crypto/Blockchain space. Just my opinion