Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

[viparmenia]

BitcoinBTC maximalists "selling" it since 2015 as an alternative payments.

Last 3 years there were lot of adoptions of BTC Bitcoin mainly on trade markets.
But still no real daily market where the people use bitcoinBTC as a payment - just get out and try to buy a food for Bitcoin - almost impossible.

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.

Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.

Same is almost happen with BTCbitcoinBTC, moreover it is to volatile to be used as payment.

Except Satoshi Nakamoto will defreeze his million BTCbitcoinBTC there is no chance for bitcoin to became real payment alternative to 100 of fiats and inbetween 3000 alternative coins, some with infinite supply.

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[Tytanowy Janusz]

But in last 3 years there were lot of adoptions of BTC Bitcoin mainly on trade markets.
But still no real daily market where the people use bitcoinBTC as a payment - just get out and try to buy a food for Bitcoin - almost impossible.

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.

Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.

You are talking shit that elites want us to believe in. Currency deflation is a blessing. Inflationary fiat money makes us spend it is as fast as possible stimulating economy in wrong direction. Eating our savings. Makes us work till death because there is no amount of money that will not be wipe out due to hyperinflation that happens once per 28 years on average. It forces a writer, actor or musician to be an investor (otherwise they see how their savings go down month after month due to inflation) and in most cases ends in loosing all money. In china there are ghost towns full of apartments that people buy just to invest somewhere- avoid inflation.

Inflation is an ugly bitch. A way to steal your money secretly.

Bitcoin is not gold and this is not "middle of last century". Gold is hard to divide, hard to proof that it is real for average user. That's why it was replaced with money. Not because it is not inflationary. Than money backed by gold was replaced with fiats because of greed. Not because inflations is good.

You are saying - it is not worth to use bitcoin, use fiats that are infltionary. I'm saying sell you shitty fiats and be all-in crypto like I am. Your wallet is deflationary, you are earning by simply not spending and when you want to buy someting you use crypt-fiat cards like the one from crypto.com

You don't need to hold fiats anymore.

[viparmenia]

But in last 3 years there were lot of adoptions of BTC Bitcoin mainly on trade markets.
But still no real daily market where the people use bitcoinBTC as a payment - just get out and try to buy a food for Bitcoin - almost impossible.

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.

Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.

You are talking shit that elites want us to believe in. Currency deflation is a blessing. Inflationary fiat money makes us spend it is as fast as possible stimulating economy in wrong direction. Eating our savings. Makes us work till death because there is no amount of money that will not be wipe out due to hyperinflation that happens once per 28 years on average. It forces a writer, actor or musician to be an investor (otherwise they see how their savings go down month after month due to inflation) and in most cases ends in loosing all money. In china there are ghost towns full of apartments that people buy just to invest somewhere- avoid inflation.

Inflation is an ugly bitch. A way to steal your money secretly.

Bitcoin is not gold and this is not "middle of last century". Gold is hard to divide, hard to proof that it is real for average user. That's why it was replaced with money. Not because it is not inflationary. Than money backed by gold was replaced with fiats because of greed. Not because inflations is good.

You are saying - it is not worth to use bitcoin, use fiats that are infltionary. I'm saying sell you shitty fiats and be all-in crypto like I am. Your wallet is deflationary, you are earning by simply not spending and when you want to buy someting you use crypt-fiat cards like the one from crypto.com

You don't need to hold fiats anymore.

You are talking shit about gold - it is used as wealth storage against inflation because there is limited amount of gold available.

Same is with bitcoin or any other limited supply coins - they will be used only for speculation or storage.

Bitcoin will never be used for payments so it could not be used for real economy.

Economy needs working fiat / assets / currency used for payment and you need to control it by emitting new coins or burning useless one.

As soon as there not enough bitcoins and last one would be mined, there will no possibility to make transactions using bitcoins.

[Febo]

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins.  Infinite supply is solution.  What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

You don't need to hold fiats anymore.

I wouldn't go that far, at least not until everyone is receiving their paycheck in bitcoin and stuff at the grocery store is priced in bitcoin.  As it stands right now, there's a very real need for fiat currency, no matter how hardcore a bitcoin supporter you are.

As far as OP's point is concerned, bitcoin could function just fine as a currency if people chose to use it as that.  Its value would have to increase significantly in order for that to happen, but it's possible.  And I would also say that if people want to keep it as a store of value or own it just for trading, that's fine by me.  Crypto as a whole hasn't caught on as far as becoming a popular payment method--there are tons of coins that function better than bitcoin does as money, yet not many people are using them either.

[Sanugarid]

You don't need to hold fiats anymore.

I wouldn't go that far, at least not until everyone is receiving their paycheck in bitcoin and stuff at the grocery store is priced in bitcoin.  As it stands right now, there's a very real need for fiat currency, no matter how hardcore a bitcoin supporter you are.

I agree, as long as the world is not running 50% with crypto or digital currencies having a fiat is a necessary. If you don't hold fiat anymore then you'll probably be in a conflict most of the time when buying goods or services since there are only few merchants who accepts cryptocurrency such as bitcoin. It's like you are saying that fiat will be replaced by bitcoin or any crypto, well that's impossible to be done coz there are deeper reasons why use fiat when there is a better one, and you would not like it.

As far as OP's point is concerned, bitcoin could function just fine as a currency if people chose to use it as that.  Its value would have to increase significantly in order for that to happen, but it's possible.  And I would also say that if people want to keep it as a store of value or own it just for trading, that's fine by me. 

but the thing is bitcoin is seen as an investment, quick money made profit due to its volatility, and none of us is willing to pay bitcoin. We can't use it as daily currencies having the fact alone the instability of its price due to  decentralization. It won't work as fiat for a long time.

Crypto as a whole hasn't caught on as far as becoming a popular payment method--there are tons of coins that function better than bitcoin does as money, yet not many people are using them either.

Because it is not convenient for them, they only know one thing and that is to pay paper money.

[leyton11]

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.

Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.

Same is almost happen with BTCbitcoinBTC, moreover it is to volatile to be used as payment.

I don't think this is true. Low inflation or deflation are just theories people put forward for bitcoin. It is important that it always shows up on Bitcoin's price. If we say Halving, cutting the supply rate makes an asset that will increase its value is not correct. it also depends on human needs. I believe that bitcoin will never be put on our market, because every transaction is anonymous and therefore money laundering will be even easier. the government won't let this happen.

[Upgrade00]

You are talking shit about gold - it is used as wealth storage against inflation because there is limited amount of gold available.

Same is with bitcoin or any other limited supply coins - they will be used only for speculation or storage.

Technically, there is a finite supply of gold, but all we have are estimates on when it would be exhausted, gold mining has been on for centuries. It's quite different from Bitcoin which is barely over a decade. They are also very different in functionality and usage. Being limited in supply is not the singular quality that attracts people to Bitcoin, it is immutable, divisible, trustless, pseudo anonymous and decentralized.
You're right about Bitcoin being used for speculation or storage, but that's not its only use case. It's already being used a means of making payments. Try using gold to wager on a gambling site.

Bitcoin will never be used for payments so it could not be used for real economy.

Economy needs working fiat / assets / currency used for payment and you need to control it by emitting new coins or burning useless one.

As soon as there not enough bitcoins and last one would be mined, there will no possibility to make transactions using bitcoins.

• Bitcoin is already accepted by a number of merchants and can be used to pay for services.
• The economy does not need massive printing out of thin air which devalues the money in circulation.
• I would assume you are referring to miners' reward for each confirmed block... the last mined bitcoins is still a long way away and it would be difficult to predict now how the network would adjust to that. There are however transaction fees which are paid on every transaction and which goes to the miner, so there would always be a financial reward for block confirmation.

[eaLiTy]

BitcoinBTC maximalists "selling" it since 2015 as an alternative payments.

It was not a selling point but it was a fact further back during 2013 when online markets started adopting BTCitcoin as an alternative payment and it went crashing down during late 2015 when the network started getting congested and the transaction fees kept on raising.

Last 3 years there were lot of adoptions of BTC Bitcoin mainly on trade markets.
But still no real daily market where the people use bitcoinBTC as a payment - just get out and try to buy a food for Bitcoin - almost impossible.

We need to have a scaling solution for you to see people using BTCitcoin on a daily basis to purchase goods.

Limitation of amount for a coin like bitcoin or any other altcoin as well low inflation makes it only worth to use as wealth storage.
Gold were also a payment unit till middle of last century, but now it is only wealth storage and speculation object on market.
Same is almost happen with BTCbitcoinBTC, moreover it is to volatile to be used as payment.

Completely bullshit, the limit in the number of coins has nothing to do with the adoption, it is the other way around, you cannot transact small amounts without shelling out a much larger fees and until that is sorted you cannot considered it as an alternative to fiat payment.

Except Satoshi Nakamoto will defreeze his million BTCbitcoinBTC there is no chance for bitcoin to became real payment alternative to 100 of fiats and inbetween 3000 alternative coins, some with infinite supply.

Heard about Satoshi the smallest divisible unit of BTCitcoin  . You need to understand that around 22% of BTCitcoin mined are lost and you really do not need those to be the alternative to fiat currency, all you need is a much better scaling solution where users can spend much smaller units of BTCitcoin at a much smaller transaction fees.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

You are talking shit about gold - it is used as wealth storage against inflation because there is limited amount of gold available.
Same is with bitcoin or any other limited supply coins - they will be used only for speculation or storage.
Bitcoin will never be used for payments so it could not be used for real economy.
Economy needs working fiat / assets / currency used for payment and you need to control it by emitting new coins or burning useless one.
As soon as there not enough bitcoins and last one would be mined, there will no possibility to make transactions using bitcoins.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Gold is not used by everyone because it is inconvenient. It is impossible to pay 2.99$ for beer using gold bar. 90% people that you will ask on the street what "inflation" is and how high inflation is now and why will not know the answer. Don't tell me that people love fiats because government and banksters can steal money from them. Its stupid. They are using it because it is an official way of payments, and they are too focused on earning and spending it that they don't have time to educate how money work and why they are doomed to work till death because of banksters greed.

A gold standard is a monetary system in which the standard economic unit of account is based on a fixed quantity of gold. The gold standard was widely used in the 19th and early part of the 20th century. Most nations abandoned the gold standard as the basis of their monetary systems at some point in the 20th century

Currency without inflation can work and was working for hundreds years.

We had gold standard before 1971 so you basically can't imagine how people leave 50 years ago? What happened after 1971?








source of all

Don't think that this is done to help the poor and needy

Sure, wages have gone up, but prices have gone up more.

The biggest inflation fault is that you are doomed to work till the end of your life. You can't be a smart 20 yo guy who earned 1 mln and retired. You have to work all the time because all your saving are secretly stolen by devaluating them. Your money are not yours. You have to spend them on useless shit (stimulating the economy in the wrong direction) and continue to work. You have to buy a flat that you dont need (China Has 65 Million Empty Apartments) just to put your money somewhere. You need to buy gold that you dont need. You need to buy someone debt and so on. To simply not be robbed by inflation.

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins.  Infinite supply is solution.  What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

There is now way to run out of coins. I guess it is 10 times less possible than hitting hyperinflation. Maybe that's the reason why there is no hyperdeflation word ??

[exstasie]

You are talking shit about gold - it is used as wealth storage against inflation because there is limited amount of gold available.

Same is with bitcoin or any other limited supply coins - they will be used only for speculation or storage.

Let's not be so hasty to draw conclusions. Bitcoin was literally the first programmable money. It's only been one decade since launch, and upper layer protocols like Lightning are even more immature. I'm not convinced that no one will be using Bitcoin aside from speculators in the future. I do think alternative models will thrive and emerge that give users alternative choices regarding security model and fees: bearer instruments (physical cash-like transactions with no on-chain transaction), Lightning, sidechains, altcoins, off-chain custodial setups, etc. But on-chain Bitcoin transactions will of course make sense for some as well. It's all about users deciding what level of security they need and what fees they are willing to pay.

More likely than not, we're going to end up with a bunch of different cryptocurrencies, with different value propositions. Bitcoin will probably dominate them in terms of value stored and that makes perfect sense considering how hard it is as an asset. Most altcoins put a larger emphasis on a less constrained supply and higher velocity of money. And there should of course be a place for that in the market.

As soon as there not enough bitcoins and last one would be mined, there will no possibility to make transactions using bitcoins.

Miners collect transaction fees too.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

As soon as there not enough bitcoins and last one would be mined, there will no possibility to make transactions using bitcoins.

Miners collect transaction fees too.

It is also worth to add that it will be very slow process. Not like miners are getting reward poof miners are not getting reward. Reward will decrease each 4 years until it will reach little more than 1 sat (after more than 100 years from now). After another 4 years and next halving reward will be smaller than 1 sat - not transferable - no reward other than fees.
I don't think that anyone will even notice this 1 sat but if it will be imporant for miners i don't see a reason why not soft fork BTC adding micro-satoshi (1/1000 of 1 satoshi) and continue to reward miners for another 40 years thanks to extra 3 decimals.

It is not possible to run out of coins. Even If 99% of supply is burned (lost wallets etc), price exploded and currency is not tradable (price is to high to pay for small things) you can always add decimals just like during hyperinflation elites are cutting decimals to avoid carrying money in a wheelbarrow instead of a wallet.

[Rune]

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins.  Infinite supply is solution.  What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

That is nonsense you will never run out of coins you can infinity do splits on the current supply  like with bitcoin if in 50,000 years there was only 20 bitcoins left do to lost keys and burned coins.
You simply would just need to turn the Satoshi 0.00000001 into a 1 and then allow Satohis to be split into 100 million parts so 0.0000000100000000
But when you receive a Satoshi the client says 1 Satoshi and you could do things like 0.05 Satoshis

[logfiles]

Bitcoin will never be used for payments so it could not be used for real economy.

It looks like you are still living in the past or probably you are in some place where almost all people don't know anything about bitcoin.
I have seen some businesses around here and also online stores where Bitcoin is accepted for payments and more are still joining.

Of course don't expect Bitcoin to take full control of a country's economy because governments will never all that but it will always be an alternate means people will use for payments whether you want it or not.

[cryptoperkele]

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins.  Infinite supply is solution.  What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

What? You do know that you can just add more digits to the Bitcoin in the future to divide it to smaller amounts then satoshi. "Runnin out of coins" isn't a thing.

[Ucy]

I don't think it will be too difficult to get people to accept Bitcoin in their businesses. There are some things that need to be addressed by the network to encourage lots of us to promote the use of Bitcoin to businesses. Things like recovering of lost private keys, reverting certain transactions mistakes, customers services, decentralized/peer-to-peer transactions, safe control of private keys, etc

Bitcoin has to be a store of value (aswell as medium of exchange) too. Its deflationary feature makes it a good store of value.

In my opinion, gold is not a very good as money for large and growing population, and it isn't really a good idea to have things like "digital/virtual gold" without it being very transparent or at least being decentralized.
If you want a good currency in paper form, you still have to be make it very decentralized and transparent. This has been solved, but I doubt certain people will like the idea. It will still be deflationary though... so we don't reduce the value of people's wealth through constant printing of papers

[imstillthebest]

Fixed amount vs. infinite coins

Fixed mount is dumb, because there will sooner or latter run out of coins.  Infinite supply is solution.  What matres is schedule that is set in stone before first block is mined and stay that way forever. So at any point we exactly know how many coins will be in existence at any time.

What? You do know that you can just add more digits to the Bitcoin in the future to divide it to smaller amounts then satoshi. "Runnin out of coins" isn't a thing.

you cant just add and add digits unless it is legally introduced and so what if btc is dividable ? it will still run out in the long run but it can happen slower because of the increasing value  . there could be a coin with a low supply but im curious if all of its supply is already accumulated and what happen to them ?. infinite supply can decrease the value of the coin , why not add only a sufficient amount of supply so that theres still chance for increase .

[maye5104]

Haven't you heard that Bitcoin is very dividable? Fixed amount makes it more scarce and valuable.

[Harlot]

I don't get your argument when you agreed that it is a "wealth storage" and it can quickly overcome to inflation yet if can't be a "payment" because it is volatile. For it being some kind of payment that people can actually use volatility isn't really an issue here since people can quickly sell the Bitcoin they receive as payment in order for their earnings not be subject to any kind of price movement as well as capital gains tax as you didn't hold it for price appreciation. For the consumer side it's really up to you on what you see in your crypto assets if it is worth to spend it on a purchase or not, it really depends on you.

[alani123]

Infinite coin supply would be too much against bitcoin's principles for it to be integrated as a feature.
It's a feature that's the very core of bitcoin at this point and I think that one shouldn't dismiss the fact that there's much of the community and support behind bitcoin is because of this very feature.

Anyone looking to create a coin with infinite supply is very much free to do so. Satoshi never said that there shouldn't be currency competition. The code for bitcoin was always open and I'm sure it wasn't just because Satoshi wanted improvements. If you want an example of a bitcoin copycat competitor that has infinite supply, you need to look no further than dogecoin.

Theoretically because DOGE has such a small value and so many coins the fee value as part of the transaction is bound to be smaller than in other cryptocurrencies. But realistically speaking, because of the lower incentives to mine, the network is not as secure and hence it's even less likely to become a payment tool that could serve people at a wider scale.