Bitcoin ETF by 2nd quarter of 2021?

[aesma]

Be careful what you wish for. Bitcoin is supposed to replace things like the SEC, not to be controlled by it !

And on the other side, the SEC approving it would also lose credibility, all kinds of Ponzis could be approved next, with dire consequences.

An ETF that could have a chance would be one only tangentially linked to BTC, like an ETF including mining companies, crypto exchanges, etc.

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[arwin100]

I wonder why this ETF discussions became alive again since or so many times we discuss it the price keep crashing once it didn't get an approval so provably it can create confusion and might newbie get panic for certain things regarding on this topic. And I don't want to talk about ETF anymore since its so nonsense to talk about almost impossible things for now

[gentlemand]

And on the other side, the SEC approving it would also lose credibility, all kinds of Ponzis could be approved next, with dire consequences.

An ETF that could have a chance would be one only tangentially linked to BTC, like an ETF including mining companies, crypto exchanges, etc.

I somehow doubt after all the grind of making people jump through a million hoops to get a Bitcoin ETF going the SEC will kick back, relax and think 'fuck it, PONZI TIME.'

The reason we're still droning on about this is they know perfectly well how much human garbage exists in the crypto space. Whoever pulls it off will have to be whiter than white. There won't be many places permitted to run one should the day when approval arrives ever comes.

[bbc.reporter]

I am not certain what this is, however, I speculate that it might be an ETF. There were no clear details given in the article except that it was a fund and that it might be offered only to institutions and also maybe rich individuals.

The prediction remains, Bitcoin ETF on the 2nd quarter of 2021 hehehe.



Fidelity president and director of digital funds Peter Jubber today filed paperwork with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) informing the regulator of a new fund dedicated to bitcoin.

The previously unknown Wise Origin Bitcoin Index Fund I, LP was incorporated this year and is being run from the same Boston headquarters where the investing giant manages $8.3 trillion in customer funds. The early documentation provides little in the way of details about the fund, and shows that zero investors have currently participated. We do know that the minimum investment to join the pooled investment fund is $100,000, indicating this is likely only for institutional and accredited investors.

Source https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/08/26/fidelity-president-files-for-new-bitcoin-fund/

[gentlemand]

I am not certain what this is, however, I speculate that it might be an ETF.

They wouldn't announce something that has no legal right to exist. That would be a waste of their time and money, and everyone else's. An ETF is only one form of wrapper. There are many others ready to roll right now without having to speculate or smack your head against a brick wall.

[tbterryboy]

Well, just because governments and their branches want to make stuff for bitcoin doesn't mean that they will be capable of. Let's say banks started to give out loans in bitcoin and on paper they have more bitcoin and loaned more bitcoin combined over 21 million, they got 1 bitcoin as savings account from someone and loaned 5 bitcoins to others using that same 1 bitcoin, that is literally what they do with fiat, that doesn't change the fact that all of those are virtual and people do not own it, there could be ton of horrible stuff for the banks but this time when they crash government can't print bitcoin and give it to them, bitcoin is bitcoin and nobody could replace it or control it.

This is why let them do whatever they want, they can't get away with it this time around.

[Lucius]

I wonder why this ETF discussions became alive again since or so many times we discuss it the price keep crashing once it didn't get an approval so provably it can create confusion and might newbie get panic for certain things regarding on this topic.

Because the OP thinks that the new, and in fact the old member of that commission will change something in the way the SEC thinks about Bitcoin when it comes to ETFs, and also from the news that came from Fidelity on the establishment of a Bitcoin fund - but that has nothing to do with the approval of the Bitcoin ETF.

As far as I know, there is currently no active request for such an ETF, and the last one was rejected in February this year (Wilshire Phoenix Fund), while Bitwise withdraw its application as early as January this year. The SEC has also more than obviously signaled that it will not approve any such request in the near future until all their requirements are met. And I would like to see how someone can influence to prevent market manipulation and illegal activities which the SEC cites as the main obstacles to approval.

[justdimin]

What do people think will change when there is an Bitcoin ETF and there is billions changing hands there? I mean we are talking about another layer of bitcoin not actually being owned but just the thought of it being owned and that is not great at all.

Think about it, people are putting money on the fact that bitcoin will go up or down without actually buying bitcoin itself, and I rather not have that in crypto.

We already got the financial systems "futures" thing and now people can make profit from bitcoin going down because of that, which caused a lot of people spending tens of millions of dollars trying to drop the price in order to profit, I do not want another feature that would help people focus on anything but to just own bitcoin and have it on their wallet like it was intended to be.

[Lucius]

What do people think will change when there is an Bitcoin ETF and there is billions changing hands there? I mean we are talking about another layer of bitcoin not actually being owned but just the thought of it being owned and that is not great at all.
Think about it, people are putting money on the fact that bitcoin will go up or down without actually buying bitcoin itself, and I rather not have that in crypto.

What should be differentiated with the BTC ETF is that there are two versions of this way of trading. The first involves physically buying Bitcoin on the basis of which fund then sells the shares and such an ETF was proposed by VanEck and SolidX. Such an ETF would definitely create a lot of pressure on the market, and thus cause a big price increase - most experts and some experienced members of this forum agree on that.

The second type of ETF proposed by everyone else is actually trading derivatives, without actually owning Bitcoin. This is of course a much cheaper way for funds because they don’t have to buy Bitcoin and worry about its security, but I’m not sure how much such trading would affect the price.

[btc_angela]

What do people think will change when there is an Bitcoin ETF and there is billions changing hands there? I mean we are talking about another layer of bitcoin not actually being owned but just the thought of it being owned and that is not great at all.

It's because more institutional money will go to the market with these Bitcoin ETF's being filed and proposed by individuals and companies.

We already got the financial systems "futures" thing and now people can make profit from bitcoin going down because of that, which caused a lot of people spending tens of millions of dollars trying to drop the price in order to profit, I do not want another feature that would help people focus on anything but to just own bitcoin and have it on their wallet like it was intended to be.

Time has change, bitcoin its one of the best speculative assets, it's already been called the digital gold so the use case has dramatically altered.

[bbc.reporter]

I am not certain what this is, however, I speculate that it might be an ETF.

They wouldn't announce something that has no legal right to exist. That would be a waste of their time and money, and everyone else's. An ETF is only one form of wrapper. There are many others ready to roll right now without having to speculate or smack your head against a brick wall.

What are those others that are ready to roll and when do you speculate would they be announced and available? Also on the 2nd quarter of 2021 hehehe?

In any case, I was only speculating. The first ETF will open the door for more and then we will witness the real pump begin. Prepare for the big short, however hehehehe.

[shoreno]

I wonder why this ETF discussions became alive again since or so many times we discuss it the price keep crashing once it didn't get an approval so provably it can create confusion and might newbie get panic for certain things regarding on this topic. And I don't want to talk about ETF anymore since its so nonsense to talk about almost impossible things for now

price crashed not because of etf but there are so many reasons why it can happen .  infact one of the reasons why price increase is becauase of etf   .
 it gives a hyped effect but this etf do also has its problems  . so many times people expect and wait for its approval but theres no clear answer if what its status or what exactly happened to them

[el kaka22]

If we can finally get an ETF that means people will have another outlet where they do not buy bitcoin but they buy something that represents bitcoin, I hate that. I hope that one day people will realize that having bitcoin on your own wallet is the only way to go.

You can use blockchain.com they do give you your own wallet, they actually do have the data to hack you one day even though they say they do not keep it I do not believe them, but if you want to that is simply bitcoin wallet at it is simplest form and I feel like that is what we need to actually have, not some third party that will hold our coins for us, even exchanges suck about that, we have seen so many exchanges get hacked and exit scam, so there is no way that you could have a control of your money if there is ETF you can invest into.

[bbc.reporter]

@el kaka22. However, the ETF will not be an outlet offered only for small investors. I am certain that it will be the principal outlet created for institutional investors who want some exposure to bitcoin strictly as an investment.

[bbc.reporter]

News update.

I reckon if cryptomom will be assigned as the Chairman of the SEC, it might be the begin the golden years of the cryptospace as a market for speculative investments, ETFs and as a market for innovation where democratic fundraisers are legal.



Jay Clayton, chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), is stepping down from the agency at the end of this year.

Clayton's departure comes months ahead of his scheduled release in June 2021. Clayton was sworn in as the SEC chairman in May 2017 after being appointed by President Donald Trump. Now that Joe Biden has been elected as the new U.S. President, it remains to be seen who replaces Clayton.

In the crypto community, Clayton is also known for his cautious stance on bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs).

Several bitcoin ETFs were filed with the SEC for approval under Clayton's leadership, but none received the green light.

The crypto market could see some clarity around these issues if SEC Commissioner, Hester Peirce (aka Crypto Mom), replaces Clayton and takes the agency's helm.


Source https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/84713/sec-chairman-jay-clayton-stepping-down

[btc_angela]

@bbc.reporter - maybe you can consider this as another sign of a Bitcoin ETF by 2021,  

So there's a lot of changes from behind, so maybe, just maybe a ETF could be in the horizon next year as you have predicted, hehehe.

https://www.coindesk.com/biden-confirms-gary-gensler-will-lead-financial-policy-transition-team

Gary Gensler, a Washington and Wall Street veteran who has closely studied the budding cryptocurrency field, will lead the financial policy transition team for projected U.S. President-elect Joe Biden.

A former chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), Gensler was tapped to lead the agency review team for the Federal Reserve, banking and securities regulators, the Biden campaign formally announced Tuesday, following reports last week he was a contender.

As CFTC chairman, Gensler served as a key financial regulator for former President Barack Obama, spearheading new derivatives rules after the 2008 financial crisis. He also served in the Treasury Department during the Clinton administration.

More recently, he has also testified before Congress about cryptocurrency and blockchain on multiple occasions, pushing back against comparisons between cryptocurrencies and Ponzi schemes and declaring that the still-unlaunched libra token met the requirements of being a security under U.S. law. At an MIT conference two years ago, he opined there was a “strong case” XRP (XRP, +11.30%), the cryptocurrency closely associated with startup Ripple, is a security. Gensler called blockchain technology a “change catalyst” in a 2019 op-ed for CoinDesk.

[adaseb]

Do we really need a Bitcoin ETF anymore, this isn't like 2016 anymore. We got tons of regulated exchanges like Coinbase or Gemini for US clients. We got regulated bitcoin futures. We got Bakkt. We also got cash apps like Square. We got GBTC. We got Robinhood with Crypto and couple weeks back we got Paypal crypto. So if people want to invest in crypto, they got tons of options right now.

I don't think a approved bitcoin ETF will have as much impact in 2021 as it might of had back in 2017 when the ETF was rejected. However I do agree with you that most likely the Bitcoin ETF will be approved. Maybe in 2021 or 2022 or so. Bitmex seems to be having less of an impact on the markets and its a plus since it was a large hurdle with regulators in the past.

[stompix]

News update.

I reckon if cryptomom will be assigned as the Chairman of the SEC, it might be the begin the golden years of the cryptospace as a market for speculative investments, ETFs and as a market for innovation where democratic fundraisers are legal.

You know that she was the Republican pick, and that with the tables turned in the elections unlss Trump somehow manages to give her that place before January the chances after that are way below zero? There is already a fight behind the curtains for this job and not between the two parties but between the democrats themselves, and  cryptomom is on nobody's list. As for Gary Gensler, that's not so good news for XRP and  ETH.

But, besides that, who still cares about ETFs,  it's like that flying car that everybody wanted but once they finally make one there will be little to no buyers.

[FanEagle]

Gary Gensler would probably go harder on XRP than ETH because one of them is a company while the other one is a crypto currency. There is no company or a business behind ETH so you can't really go after ETH that much, what you can go after is the tokens or projects that base their business on ETH blockchain which could happen but simple solution would be to start a business outside of USA and they would be fine.

XRP on the other hand is a company that also works with other companies who are mainly in USA which means getting outside of USA wouldn't be enough for them if they lose all their american partners. Which is why I believe we are going to see a huge drop in XRP if there is even a single investigation towards them, they are staying high thanks to their deals and their deals will be done with if they get a big investigation going.

[Lucius]

Do we really need a Bitcoin ETF anymore, this isn't like 2016 anymore. We got tons of regulated exchanges like Coinbase or Gemini for US clients. We got regulated bitcoin futures. We got Bakkt. We also got cash apps like Square. We got GBTC. We got Robinhood with Crypto and couple weeks back we got Paypal crypto. So if people want to invest in crypto, they got tons of options right now.

It is not at all a question of whether we need a BTC ETF or not, it already exists (only not in the US), but it is a question of when it will be approved there as well. One such mechanism should not be taken so lightly, because when ETF proposals were a hot topic, most experts agreed that they would be the perfect bridge between big investors and Bitcoin. Now we can ask the question if we want trillions of $ of their money, because no matter what ETF/s would launch the price into the sky, in the long run it would probably be detrimental for BTC.

A good article about the BTC ETF, it's not bad to be reminded of what it's really about -> Bitcoin ETF: Everything You Need To Know