Merits offered as a prize

[bob123]

In the german section, there are two topics (from sportsbet and bitcasino) which offer merits as a prize for correct betting on soccer games.

Merits are intended to express the appreciation of a good / worthy post.
Giving them out as a prize seems.. odd.. to say at least.

What is the general consensus regarding such behavior? What is your personal opinion?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Merits aren't supposed to be given out as prizes unless the contest has something to do with making the best post or something like that--certainly not for making the right call on a soccer game.  That's something I'd probably report to the moderators, though I'm not sure how they'd handle it.  Hopefully they'd put a stop to it, as it's a blatant misuse of the merit system (though I can't read German and thus can't understand exactly what's going on).

Edit:

However i'd say reporting it is pretty useless.

Fair enough, but I'd probably do it anyway if I saw it happening in a language I could understand.

[yahoo62278]

Looks like moderator Mole0815 is aware and condoning it.

[suchmoon]

Merits aren't supposed to be given out as prizes unless the contest has something to do with making the best post or something like that--certainly not for making the right call on a soccer game.  That's something I'd probably report to the moderators, though I'm not sure how they'd handle it.  Hopefully they'd put a stop to it, as it's a blatant misuse of the merit system (though I can't read German and thus can't understand exactly what's going on).

Merit system is not moderated so I don't think this should be reported unless it falls under "incentivizing low-effort posts".

I've offered merits in the past for a correct guess on something or other. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that if it creates a good discussion. I don't know German well enough to figure out if those soccer threads are merely ad/spam threads or there's more going on.

[mole0815]

I haven't given it any more thought. Since there have been such threads/raffles/actions several times and nobody ever had a problem with it, it was tolerated until now.

If this is a violation of rules we can of course change that.

If not I would leave it as it is

[Pffrt]

I think merit as a reward for prediction is a very wrong approach. It should not be given for such purpose, only good quality post should be given merits. However, I want to link you this thread by DTalk- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5218206.msg53624239#msg53624239
He planned to share merit for people who can write quality post on a given topic which was also a form of rewards. You can get some good discussion from that.

[PrimeNumber7]

As a prize for guessing the correct “answer” or winner, no that is wrong, and should be condemned. If the “answer” requires a substantial amount of work, knowledge or research, giving merits for a correct answer may be acceptable.

It appears that Sportsbet is effectively selling merit, which is against the spirit of the merit system.

[bob123]

Merits aren't supposed to be given out as prizes unless the contest has something to do with making the best post or something like that--certainly not for making the right call on a soccer game.  That's something I'd probably report to the moderators, though I'm not sure how they'd handle it.

I think merit as a reward for prediction is a very wrong approach. It should not be given for such purpose, only good quality post should be given merits.

I agree with that. Merits should be for good posts, not a prize for betting games.
However i'd say reporting it is pretty useless.

Looks like moderator Mole0815 is aware and condoning it.

So ?

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that if it creates a good discussion.

It is a betting game.
The merits have been added to the prize pool, besides some satoshis.

I am not sure on how this could create a good discussion at all.

If this is a violation of rules we can of course change that.

If not I would leave it as it is

Since - as suchmoon mentioned - merits aren't moderated, it technically can't be a violation (since there are no rules to begin with).
But this completely misses the whole purpose of merits and can be quite "difficult", ethically speaking.

As a prize for guessing the correct “answer” or winner, no that is wrong, and should be condemned. If the “answer” requires a substantial amount of work, knowledge or research, giving merits for a correct answer may be acceptable.

It appears that Sportsbet is effectively selling merit, which is against the spirit of the merit system.

As far as i can see, the merits have been added by a user (cygan) to the prize pool. He doesn't seem to be related to sportsbet.
But i agree with the first part. IMO giving away merits as a prize for winning a betting game is inappropriate.

[Halab]

There was this kind of topic in the french section with few merits as a reward. I even organized some, just for fun.
The difference with the 2 german topics in OP was that there were ~3-5 merits to be won. 20 merits for the winner is a bit abused (in my opinion), but everyone can do what he wants with his merits.

[suchmoon]

IMO giving away merits as a prize for winning a betting game is inappropriate.

Would it be more appropriate if the prize wasn't announced and the user just merited the winning posts because they want to?

Because the way I see it that's essentially the only potential problem here - does it result in merit being sent to posts that otherwise wouldn't have received merits.

[Bitcoinsummoner]

If merit can be used as a gift for right call on a soccer game then there should have no restrictions of merit trading. I think gifting for right call on a soccer game is same as merit trading. Correct me if I am wrong.

[The Cryptovator]

The thing I am not getting is "prize pool " when I have translated into English. Seems there is participation fee is in bitcoin, so why prize outcome is merit? I am not sure if the merit award is additional besides of BTC reward. But since there is a deal with Bitcoin which is participation fee then merit shouldn't announce as an award. Announce merit reward for constructive discussion isn't wrong, or if merit send on the same thread for constructive discussion wouldn't wrong. But announce as a prize where entry fees by bitcoin aren't right in my personal opinion.

but everyone can do what he wants with his merits.

Nah, wrong information. There is rules for merit sources.

It is not allowed for merit sources to sell their merit.

[bob123]

The thing I am not getting is "prize poll " when I have translated into English. Seems there is participation fee is in bitcoin, so why prize outcome is merit?

Every user has to add at least X BTC into the prize pool and the winner (the person with the most points after the season) gets all the BTC inside.
And apparently one user also "added" merit into the prize pool.

[JollyGood]

There is a difference between being tolerated and it being a violation.

Can you please confirm if this is actually a violation or not. Thank you.

I haven't given it any more thought. Since there have been such threads/raffles/actions several times and nobody ever had a problem with it, it was tolerated until now.

If this is a violation of rules we can of course change that.

If not I would leave it as it is

[Bitcoinsummoner]

but everyone can do what he wants with his merits.

Good!! So,
1. Can you trade merit?
2. Can you give merit to your alt account?

And apparently one user also "added" merit into the prize pool.

It is not right and it is opposite the aim of creating of merit system. giving merit like this should be stopped immediately.

[Findingnemo]

Merits shouldn't be used in such a way, yes users can do merit any post if they want but to have the effective system it should be used for the right cause.Because they are using merit as token for that they are supposed to receive money so its like trading the merits. But only admin can comment on this to know what can be done.

[The Cryptovator]

Every user has to add at least X BTC into the prize pool and the winner (the person with the most points after the season) gets all the BTC inside.
And apparently one user also "added" merit into the prize pool.

So who will but first he will get all the funds plus 20 merits. Am I right? And seems there is 2nd & 3rd prize as well which are distributing with merits. That means even your prediction becomes 3rd place somehow on the competition, you will not get merits unless you pay the participation fees. Nah, I wouldn't agree with that kind of gamble where the prize will be rewarded by merits. So even the worst poster would be a good predictor and would get merit rewards if participate in the competitions. Moderators should discourage from such as competition, otherwise, we might encounter so many such as thread which would lead to merit abuse. Merit was introduced as a reward of good posters & contributors, not for gambling prize.

[cygan]

I haven't given it any more thought. Since there have been such threads/raffles/actions several times and nobody ever had a problem with it, it was tolerated until now.

If this is a violation of rules we can of course change that.

If not I would leave it as it is

i see it the same way as mole0815 - if it does not follow the forum rules, i will of course remove the merit reward from the prize pool
i just wanted to do something good and i wasn't aware of it now

As a prize for guessing the correct “answer” or winner, no that is wrong, and should be condemned. If the “answer” requires a substantial amount of work, knowledge or research, giving merits for a correct answer may be acceptable.

It appears that Sportsbet is effectively selling merit, which is against the spirit of the merit system.

this is a very good argument👍

[suchmoon]

So who will but first he will get all the funds plus 20 merits. Am I right? And seems there is 2nd & 3rd prize as well which are distributing with merits. That means even your prediction becomes 3rd place somehow on the competition, you will not get merits unless you pay the participation fees. Nah, I wouldn't agree with that kind of gamble where the prize will be rewarded by merits. So even the worst poster would be a good predictor and would get merit rewards if participate in the competitions. Moderators should discourage from such as competition, otherwise, we might encounter so many such as thread which would lead to merit abuse. Merit was introduced as a reward of good posters & contributors, not for gambling rewards.

If the merit sender wants to reward someone for putting their money where their mouth is - that's fine with me. Unless you can prove some sort of secret scheme whereby the whole thing is rigged to allow shitposters/sockpuppets/etc to win the contest and get undeserved merits it's really a huge stretch to call it abuse. Meriting a post that you think doesn't deserve merit is not abuse.

this is a very good argument👍

Do you work for Sportsbet? Do you get paid for those merits?

[cygan]

...

this is a very good argument👍

Do you work for Sportsbet? Do you get paid for those merits?

nope, in no way have any relationship with sportsbet.io or any other betting provider
i do all this just for fun and enjoyment in this forum, as a kind of "good reward" for "good football knowledge"