Some are hungry, some are losing their homes - some are doubling their wealth

[Lucius]

We are witnessing a very difficult period, primarily caused by the recession that began in 2008 and which some claim has never actually ended. To make matters worse, the world has been hit by a pandemic caused by the COVID-19 virus, which is very systematically eroding the already somewhat rotten world economy. While most ordinary people feel the direct consequences of all this happening, there are those who increase their wealth and do not take a smile off their face.

I recently read an article that the wealth of the 12 richest Americans climbed above $1 trillion for the first time in history and this is precisely because of what has caused almost the whole world to find itself in a very difficult situation. Although no one can deny that this is the result of a free economy and that everyone manages as he knows how, I wonder why these people are considered so special and almost have the status of gods if we consider the following fact :

Few Americans, however, are feeling any benefits. The coronavirus pandemic has wrought a terrible economic and social cost on the country, with an estimated 26 million going hungry in the last week, 40 million facing eviction from their homes, and around 55 million filing for unemployment benefits since March. Food banks across the country have seen great increases in demand and, in some cases, are struggling to meet it.

Although from a legal standpoint we can't do anything, is it normal that 1/3 of the US population is literally on their knees, while others don't know what to do with their money?

To make matters even more tragicomic, Jeff Bezos leads the list of America’s rich is asking for donations for his 800 000 employees, and in same time his net worth is $189.4 billion This is actually the case for some serious psychologists if you ask me...

As long as people like this are our role models and moral verticals, we shouldn't hope for a better world - but lest someone misunderstand me, I'm not just criticizing the American system, this is happening all over the world.

    Jeff Bezos ($189.4 billion)
    Bill Gates ($114 billion)
    Mark Zuckerberg ($95 billion)
    Warren Buffett ($80 billion)
    Elon Musk ($73 billion)
    Steve Ballmer ($71 billion)
    Larrry Ellison ($71 billion)
    Larry Page ($67 billion)
    Sergey Brin ($66 billion)
    Alice Walton ($62 billion)
    Jim Walton ($62 billion)
    Rob Walton ($62 billion)

Source

[1715314098]

1715314098

[BIT-BENDER]

It's a case - cynical in some ways - where the rice gets richer and the poor makes no positive shift, let's take some scenes from the trading floor -stock market- the big dogs/whale make big profit while the average or low traders loses, these billionaire can control things to there favour even in difficult situations such as we have. They have the Arsenal/capacity to diversify -bill gate went into pharmaceuticals- this is not really a careless move because if wrong can fail -but these guys have the best management money can get-
But one fact is that they need the masses, they are selling something -service- and the poor Masses are buying.
Young entrepreneurs going into the same Field such as them are put under pressure and they mostly succumb and sell off to these guys, it's a power games where they eliminate any competition.

In my country it's a case of politicians and their associates getting richer and the masses go down ward.
Made this thread some time ago
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267435.msg54956210#msg54956210
It's a country where you don't make it if you are not rich or have a bond or connection with someone at the top/above. The masses should support other masses.
There is an area/region in my country known for making foot wares but they don't get patronage because there are not a known name -there guy fake emblems of big names on their products- the masses should mutually support each other
+ Buy local goods
+ Employ services of local businesses
+ Promote each other
+ Get working/productive.
It's really a hard nut starting from the bottom and aspiring to reach the top, the world system -government, powerful rich men- is making it extra hard.

[suchmoon]

Let me just note that this stock market "wealth" is fake AF. I'm no Bezos but my 401k also ballooned since March... so what? It's a bubble, it's going to pop, the best I can do is try to guess when and how much and if it's worth taking a loan against it or cashing out and paying the penalty. I don't think Bezos can actually sell $190 billion worth of Amazon stock although he can surely sell some and build some spaceships or whatever he's got going on. Now if you were to take some of Bezos' wealth and give a $1000 to a few million people that would last how long?

The other thing to consider is that Amazon is profitable in large part due to low wages it's paying to its warehouse staff. The profit margins used to be very slim, possibly improved lately, but it hired a lot more people too. If Amazon had to pay higher wages then I'm sure it would find some equilibrium somewhere - possibly less profit, less "wealth" for Bezos, but likely higher prices, lower sales, fewer employees - not certain this would be a better overall outcome.

It might be alluring to contemplate some sort of wealth redistribution looking at those numbers (who needs more than a billion anyway?) but aside from pushing those numbers offshore I doubt that any such plans have much of chance to succeed.

I wouldn't go as far as calling them "role models" though. They're just rich people.

[Eugenar]

There is a social classification in U.S. as well as to other countries, namely lower, lower-middle, middle, upper-middle, and upper class. This measures one's economic and social status. The ones on the higher ends are mostly land owners, business inclined people or the capitalists. In the middle class are those which has college degrees, and are EMPLOYED in white-collar industries. While on the lower class, these are people who are mostly unemployed and working poor.

So how do I see it at this time of pandemic? Those people in the higher class are not that affected by this problem we are currently facing, but not every individual in this class because many businesses are forced to stop their operation due to some reasons and the majority still find their way to make money during this time since they are mostly the capitalists. While in the middle class, employees are also struggling because their jobs are also affected. People in the lower class are mostly affected. Their source of income were stopped by this pandemic which pulls them down in the social strata.

What makes the scenario worse? Many people in the upper class are not aware and some are just closing their eyes in this situation. Since most of them are not negatively affected they are lacking sympathy to help those in the lower brackets. The only one who could help these people is the government.

Germany is one of those countries who adjusted the financial measures of their economy to cover the loss during this corona virus outbreak.

Here's the link: (An article written by Richard Partington)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/germany-unveils-huge-130bn-coronavirus-recovery-package

A graph in this article shows how their adjustment made a change for their people and economy. I think relying to those wealthy people during this time of pandemic will not be that effective because it still depends to them whether they would help others or not but it is a responsibility for each of the governments to make an action that would save their people, but ofcourse with the help of its countrymen.

[audaciousbeing]

While Jeff Bezos would not become homeless if he should lose his wealth but really what he is worth does not mean the amount of cash he has in his bank account or the value of fixed property he has in his name and just like others have right mentioned, stock value money is "air money" and it's proposed wealth not actual wealth that wouldn't even become warmth until it's is sold which I know that there are several conditions to make that happen.

While I have no issues with the riches and their value of wealth increasing while others are in serious pandemic across the world, I don't think majority of us on the forum or any crypto enthusiasts is any different because even in the midst of the pandemic, the price of bitcoin and major crypto have increased which means for someone who has some crypto back then before the pandemic is technically richer but not to the scale of Jeff Bezos of this world.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Although from a legal standpoint we can't do anything, is it normal that 1/3 of the US population is literally on their knees, while others don't know what to do with their money?

The question boils down to whether you believe in truly free markets or not.  If you do, then the above situation is an unfortunate (but acceptable) consequence of free market capitalism. 

I'd also point out that the people getting rich right now are not necessarily doing anything illegal or even immoral.  Jeff Bezos's net worth no doubt increased, but he's created a service (Amazon) that is serving a lot of people right now, and Amazon shareholders have also done pretty well, too.  In addition, a lot of these ultra-wealthy individuals do some good things with their riches--charities, foundations, and the like.  I would never fault anyone for becoming super rich, as long as they didn't screw people over in the process (and that's certainly true of some of them).

IMO the focus shouldn't be on the wealthy right now.  It should be on the government and how they're spending their money and what they're doing to fix all these problems we're having.  They're the official rulers of all of our countries, not Bezos, Gates, Buffett, Zuckerburg, and all of those folks.  The government is the entity that collects our tax money and is supposed to provide services to us that we need.  The ultra-rich have no obligation to do anything other than to pay their own taxes.

[shield132]

~snip~

Although from a legal standpoint we can't do anything, is it normal that 1/3 of the US population is literally on their knees, while others don't know what to do with their money?

To make matters even more tragicomic, Jeff Bezos leads the list of America’s rich is asking for donations for his 800 000 employees, and in same time his net worth is $189.4 billion This is actually the case for some serious psychologists if you ask me...

As long as people like this are our role models and moral verticals, we shouldn't hope for a better world - but lest someone misunderstand me, I'm not just criticizing the American system, this is happening all over the world.

~snip~

There is one great lyrics from my favourite song: This is the world you've created, the product of what I've become.
This words truly describes that we created terrible world and how? Let me clarify. Always, there are some people who have ambition to be better and on another level than others. Once this man achieves success and others become his/her slaves, there is someone who tries to overcome from this situation and become free and this kind of person also tries to attract people who may share the same idea but imagine what happens then? There is a one person who tries to get the most from this situation and rise himself/herself in a selfish way while abandon what others were working on and trying to achieve.

Maybe when you read this example, you may think about ancient slave-soldiers but this applies to current reality.

There are some people who own money that would be enough for most part of the society but... People even don't care about that and that's a huge problem. Have you seen very massive protests in the streets around this problem? No...

And Jeff Bezos, he is really mentally ill. He made a lot of money during pandemic and as a bonus, significantly cut affiliate fees for those who are under Amazon Affiliate Program.

[akram143]

 I'm not just criticizing the American system, this is happening all over the world.

Of course this is happening everywhere, in India also the same thing is happening.When the whole country is suffering due to this pandemic and millions lost their jobs and daily wagers are starving for months already but richest person of Ambhani climbed to top 10 richest person in this world recently and he climbed to 4th position in few weeks after that, this is happening due to the political system in India but not sure about other part of the world.

[eaLiTy]

We are witnessing a very difficult period, primarily caused by the recession that began in 2008 and which some claim has never actually ended. To make matters worse, the world has been hit by a pandemic caused by the COVID-19 virus, which is very systematically eroding the already somewhat rotten world economy. While most ordinary people feel the direct consequences of all this happening, there are those who increase their wealth and do not take a smile off their face.

The reason we say that the recession that began in 2008 never ended is simply because the amount of money floating in the market in the form of debt never reached the treasury and we have seen that the market is printing and pumping fiat cash back in the market when we are faced with the pandemic and it is not a good sign as we might face another major recession in the form of inflation

Jeff Bezos  leads the list of America’s rich is asking for donations for his 800 000 employees, and in same time his net worth is $189.4 billion This is actually the case for some serious psychologists if you ask me...

If you take into account the present pandemic situation it is not a big surprise that an Ecommerce business earned a substantial profit when the rest of the business were forced to shut down and the only business that were going on were through these platform in many countries.

[Upgrade00]

The question boils down to whether you believe in truly free markets or not.  If you do, then the above situation is an unfortunate (but acceptable) consequence of free market capitalism.  

It is partly a reflection of the free market. Bezos began in a garage when he chose to make the move from the white collar position to venture into the uncertainties of entrepreneurship, his risk paid off and out of that garage he was able to build Amazon. This is typical of the stories of a couple of other people on the rich list, some of them may have had certain privileges which streamlined their journey, but that does not go against a free economy.
I however said it's partly a reflection cause tech giants (as well as other businesses with monopoly over a certain sector) have certain advantages over smaller enterprises by virtue of their influence over the market, and with the anti trust inquiries we have had, they usually get away with just a slap on the wrist each time it's investigated.

IMO the focus shouldn't be on the wealthy right now.  It should be on the government and how they're spending their money and what they're doing to fix all these problems we're having.

True, social classes would always exist with an uneven distribution of wealth, that's not the fault of the people higher up the ladder. It's the job of the government to provide opportunities for the masses and build a system that is conducive for innovation and job creation.

[hugeblack]

The world has more money than people can. New debt tools create a lot of money without having a real cover, so the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
The mistake lies in education, how schools teach what money is, investment, the difference between assets and liabilities.
 If everyone knew these basic rules, the rich would have difficulty raising more money, and the middle class would get richer, and thus the poor would be reduced.
people need to redefine what money is, investment and stop buying useless things.

[odolvlobo]

In my opinion, the primary causes of wealth inequality have been the actions of governments to solve economic problems through social, fiscal and monetary policies. Whether or not wealthy people are intended to benefit from these policies, they are able to make use of them more effectively than the rest of the population, and so ultimately they benefit the most.

An obvious example is quantitative easing. Though the purpose is to give everyone more money in order to stimulate the economy, it actually benefits wealthy people much more than everyone else by supporting prices of debt and equity, and by lowering the risks of investments. It is absurd to believe that the best way to help people suffering financially is to give money to banks and investors.

So rather than putting the blame on wealthy people, the blame should be put on the politicians and the bureaucrats that concoct those policies that are ultimately destructive.

[aesma]

I think in the case of these billionaires (maybe not all of them), they haven't a clear view of what society should be like. With their wealth, they should be leading the way, but instead they're mostly preoccupied by running their companies and making more money. Even Bill Gates, I mean, he's not running Microsoft anymore, he's running his foundation, that does good things, but why does he ask people to donate to it ? He could fund it entirely by himself.

Then there are politicians, and in the US, they're bought off by wealthy people. Even Biden, when/if elected, might mitigate some things, but he won't change the system.

The US economy could work as well if not better, while providing for free healthcare and education for everyone, but nobody rich enough is actually promoting it, and buying politicians to make it happen.

[Coyster]

he's running his foundation, that does good things, but why does he ask people to donate to it ? He could fund it entirely by himself.

Bill gates is rich enough to fund his foundation himself, but there are still people out there who would not mind to donate to a good course and his foundation is that, and those are the individuals he is reaching out to for donations. It is not like he's robbing people of their money or something (mind you, it's voluntary). And if you consider how large the foundation is, as well as it's assets, it's obvious majority of the funds is coming from the wealthy and that's not a problem for them.

I can't really see a reason to blame the rich people for anything, you look at their assets and ask why they haven't paid their workers or why they ask for donations for their employees, but in business, what matters is what the company or organization is making at that time, if the company is struggling to make any income, obviously paying workers will be a problem, the billionaire wouldn't pay from his personal funds. That being said, this rich individuals are also donors to other foundations, sectors, groups etc.

[pixie85]

Bezos is not my role model but I cannot deny that I'd like to have as much money as him.

What can we little poor people do about them making money? Stop buying on Amazon?

It's the old saying that while the rich are getting richer the poor are getting poorer. Our parents knew it's how the world is and so do we. Democracy doesn't work when you can buy votes and sway the outcome in your favor.

[suchmoon]

I think in the case of these billionaires (maybe not all of them), they haven't a clear view of what society should be like. With their wealth, they should be leading the way, but instead they're mostly preoccupied by running their companies and making more money. Even Bill Gates, I mean, he's not running Microsoft anymore, he's running his foundation, that does good things, but why does he ask people to donate to it ? He could fund it entirely by himself.

Bill Gates has already donated ~$50 billion to charities. That is roughly his total net worth 10 years ago. By not giving it all at once he's still got $100+ billion to donate over the years to come. He's by far the most charitable billionaire and has publicly pledged to donate more than half of his wealth and has been encouraging other rich people to do so.

I'm not a fan of Gates or how he made his money (I think Microsoft was engaged in extremely shitty business practices back in the day) but I think his charitable donations are an example for other billionaires to follow.

[aesma]

But that means the system is fine and you just need rich people to be charitable for all to be happy. That's the narrative in the US and other places since the 70's, incarnated by Reagan and Thatcher in the 80's, but has it worked out ?

Wouldn't it be better if these rich people paid more taxes, or paid their underlings more at the detriment of their wealth, but with the result that less people would be living in poverty or at the edge of it ?

[exstasie]

Let me just note that this stock market "wealth" is fake AF. I'm no Bezos but my 401k also ballooned since March... so what? It's a bubble, it's going to pop, the best I can do is try to guess when and how much and if it's worth taking a loan against it or cashing out and paying the penalty.

You could always just allocate your 401K to cash, right? If you thought the bubble was about to pop. That wouldn't trigger any tax penalties either since you wouldn't be withdrawing anything.

Bezos obviously can't do that. His best bet in that scenario is to use company cash to buy back shares, thereby propping up the price and his wealth. Amazon has something like $5 billion set aside for that. They haven't dipped into it yet because its stock performance is just so strong.

[suchmoon]

Wouldn't it be better if these rich people paid more taxes, or paid their underlings more at the detriment of their wealth, but with the result that less people would be living in poverty or at the edge of it ?

You'd have to trust the government that it would fairly and efficiently distribute that tax revenue. I think a lot of people would rather be poor .

You could always just allocate your 401K to cash, right? If you thought the bubble was about to pop. That wouldn't trigger any tax penalties either since you wouldn't be withdrawing anything.

Yeah I think you're right, technically they're supposed to offer at least a money market fund but it's not available online so I probably need to call and beg, ugh.

Last time I just took a loan but I think loans have a fairly low max size like 50k.

[verita1]

Jeff Bezos and other millionaires have donated at least 1% of their wealth to the coronavirus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/06/how-much-americas-richest-are-donating-for-coronavirus-relief.html

The pandemic has taught us that we must preserve the most important thing that is health and our loved ones. We are also concerned about work, many people around the world have lost their jobs.

After the pandemic, I think that all these people, the richest in the world, should help create sustainable jobs to reduce the global poverty rate.