Best Method: How to mix - the entire process

[Avery_39]

Hi guys,
I wanted to start this thread to explore the best method for mixing / tumbling bitcoins, to leave no trace of ownership, but the whole process, not just 'which bitcoin mixer to use'.  I want to choose a reliable mixer, but... I also don't want to screw up the process due to 'human error'.

I am still very new to this process, so please excuse my lack of experience.

There are many mixers on the market. Many of them seem to be scams, in which you test them first with a small transaction and all seems fine, but then you send a second (large) transaction through, and they rob you. Mixers are compared here, a great thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827109.0

However, I wanted to explore the entire process from star to finish – the beginning and the end, not just the mixing stage in the middle.

SENDING:
What is the safest way to 'send' your coins to the mixer in the first place?
... Should I use a VPN?.. What browser?.. If needed, how do I create a Tor environment on my computer?.. What is the safest (most anonymous) wallet to 'send' from?.. How many wallet transactions before sending to a mixer?

MIXING:
Middle stage

RECEIVING:
What is the safest way to 'receive' your coins from the mixer after they've been tumbled?
... Should I use a VPN?.. What browser?.. If needed, how do I create a Tor environment on my computer?.. What is the safest (most anonymous) wallet to 'receive' coins – and then send to a destination wallet?

Reading the text on the sites of various mixers, they claim that their mixer works very well and protects the user's ID.. but they also remind the user that anonymity is most often compromised by 'human error' when the user doesn't use the best practices when / after receiving the coins...
... this is what I'd like to explore.

If anyone can offer any advice I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks

PS: I have invested in a Trezor hardware wallet.

[bitmover]

There are many mixers on the market. Many of them seem to be scams, in which you test them first with a small transaction and all seems fine, but then you send a second (large) transaction through, and they rob you. Mixers are compared here, a great thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827109.0

Most known and used mix in this community (bitcointalk) is Chipmixer. It is widely used here and there are no big problems by people who use it.

SENDING:
What is the safest way to 'send' your coins to the mixer in the first place?
... Should I use a VPN?.. What browser?.. If needed, how do I create a Tor environment on my computer?.. What is the safest (most anonymous) wallet to 'send' from?.. How many wallet transactions before sending to a mixer?

MIXING:
Middle stage

RECEIVING:
What is the safest way to 'receive' your coins from the mixer after they've been tumbled?
... Should I use a VPN?.. What browser?.. If needed, how do I create a Tor environment on my computer?.. What is the safest (most anonymous) wallet to 'receive' coins – and then send to a destination wallet?

PS: I have invested in a Trezor hardware wallet.

You are right to be worried about keeping those coins private after mixing.

You should not use your recent mixed coins together with your old compromised addresses in the same transaction. The easiest way to do that is to simple generate a new SEED in your trezor and send your new coins to a new address using that seed.

Alternatively, you can use electrum and use coin control feature, which will allow you to choose which address to spend in each transaction. I do not recommend that method if you are too worried about privacy, as you may make a mistake some day and link those mixed coins back to you.


No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

[Avery_39]

Most known and used mix in this community (bitcointalk) is Chipmixer. It is widely used here and there are no big problems by people who use it.

Thank you. I have read all 20 pages of the thread I posted the link to above, and I see LeGaulois is a very active user and rates the service highly.

You are right to be worried about keeping those coins private after mixing.

You should not use your recent mixed coins together with your old compromised addresses in the same transaction. The easiest way to do that is to simple generate a new SEED in your trezor and send your new coins to a new address using that seed.

Alternatively, you can use electrum and use coin control feature, which will allow you to choose which address to spend in each transaction. I do not recommend that method if you are too worried about privacy, as you may make a mistake some day and link those mixed coins back to you.

Thank you. So I guess this process would work for "New seed in Trezor" method:

  Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Hardware wallet (Address 1, Seed 1) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > Hardware wallet (Address 2, Seed 2) - - - - - > Destination

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

Not at any stage in the process?  I am surprised.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

This seems somewhat ironic, as the tumbling process seems to be promoted as some form of sterilization.
.

[bitmover]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

Not at any stage in the process?  I am surprised.

It is not necessary, because the problem is taht your coins now are linked to your ID somewhere, right? An exchange probably, which you did KYC. As exchanges addresses are known, those coins are linked to an exchange (in the blockchain), and that exchange has your ID. so they are linked to you.

Once you get new coins from the mixer, those coins are not going to be connect to you in any way in the blockchain. Blockchain does not store any IP related data.

There might be some exceptions if you are ultraparanoid (and don't know any now), but it is not necessary for average users who just want to get new clean coins.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

This seems somewhat ironic, as the tumbling process seems to be promoted as some form of sterilization.
.

Well, not that ironic.

You will have "sterilized" coins. Everyone will know those coins came from a mixing service.

Why did you sterilized it? Did your money came from ilegal activities? you cannot prove it, no one can, because they are sterilized. Authorities may aask: What are you hiding?

Some exchanges do not accepts coisn that came from mixers or casinos. However, there are ways to bypass that check.

But we don't know how will authorities deal with mixing services in the future, neither how will each country deal with that.

You can watch this video from antonopoulous about it:

Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, taint, and wallet fingerprinting

[hulla]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

[bitmover]

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I am recommending him not to have total anonymity in all his coins. Because that might become a problem in the future.

Being fully anonymous may not be what he wishes. It is good to have that option, but that comes with a risk also.

[AB de Royse777]

SENDING:

Use .onion version of the mixer.

RECEIVING:

Use a VPN, a free one is okay too. Create a new wallet while your VPN is active. Send the mixed coins to the new wallet. And from now on, use VPN always even when you load the wallet. Never send the coins to any service which requires KYC and an address of yours which is known to others.

To mix, so far Chipmixer is the best IMO.

[Avery_39]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

Not at any stage in the process?  I am surprised.

It is not necessary, because the problem is taht your coins now are linked to your ID somewhere, right? An exchange probably, which you did KYC. As exchanges addresses are known, those coins are linked to an exchange (in the blockchain), and that exchange has your ID. so they are linked to you.

Once you get new coins from the mixer, those coins are not going to be connect to you in any way in the blockchain. Blockchain does not store any IP related data.

There might be some exceptions if you are ultraparanoid (and don't know any now), but it is not necessary for average users who just want to get new clean coins.

I see. Actually as these particular coins weren’t from an Exchange / KYC (Know your customer).. do they even need to be mixed?

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

This seems somewhat ironic, as the tumbling process seems to be promoted as some form of sterilization.
.

Well, not that ironic.

You will have "sterilized" coins. Everyone will know those coins came from a mixing service.

Why did you sterilized it? Did your money came from ilegal activities? you cannot prove it, no one can, because they are sterilized. Authorities may aask: What are you hiding?

Some exchanges do not accepts coisn that came from mixers or casinos. However, there are ways to bypass that check.

But we don't know how will authorities deal with mixing services in the future, neither how will each country deal with that.

You can watch this video from antonopoulous about it:

Bitcoin Q&A: Blacklists, taint, and wallet fingerprinting

Thanks. All my accounts / addresses in my Trezor wallet containing mixed coins will be kept separate from my Trezor un-mixed coins.

I won't be mixing most of my coins, just a small portion.
.

[Avery_39]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/  Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/  using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/  using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I have downloaded Wasabi but have never used it before. Why do you suggest Wasabi be used in addition to the Mixer?

To safely receive coins from the mixer, can't a Trezor be used in conjunction with a VPN?

[Avery_39]

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I am recommending him not to have total anonymity in all his coins. Because that might become a problem in the future.

Being fully anonymous may not be what he wishes. It is good to have that option, but that comes with a risk also.

Actually, for this example, I do want to be completely anonymous.

I will keep other coins for myself that won't go through the process discussed here.

[Karartma1]

Avery_39 you can never be fully anonymous. Don't fool yourself on this: you can take all the necessary steps to try to be as anonymous as possible but you will never reach 100%

Having said that I suggest you look into:

• Wasabi wallet

https://medium.com/@keratichop/how-to-use-wasabi-wallet-coinjoin-guide-3102f8cc5d3c

• Samourai Wallet

https://medium.com/samourai-wallet/diving-head-first-into-whirlpool-anonymity-sets-4156a54b0bc7

Before making any move try to reach a level of confidence with the matter, otherwise you are only going to do a big mess.

If you don't feel comfortable mixing coins yourself then use mixers but do your own research before using them and try to compare them.
My 2 sats for you.

[hulla]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/  Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/  using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/  using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I have downloaded Wasabi but have never used it before. Why do you suggest Wasabi be used in addition to the Mixer?

I suggest the use of it for total anonymity cause the maybe some mistake from mixing company ending.

To safely receive coins from the mixer, can't a Trezor be used in conjunction with a VPN?

Using VPN with Trezor is completely useless because Trezor is not privacy wallet and you should be fine if you follow the process I posted earlier.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I am recommending him not to have total anonymity in all his coins. Because that might become a problem in the future.

Being fully anonymous may not be what he wishes. It is good to have that option, but that comes with a risk also.

If fully anonymous wasnt what he wish for he wont have question the way he put his statement. What could come with risk?

[Avery_39]

SENDING:

Use .onion version of the mixer.

Thanks

RECEIVING:

Use a VPN, a free one is okay too. Create a new wallet while your VPN is active. Send the mixed coins to the new wallet. And from now on, use VPN always even when you load the wallet. Never send the coins to any service which requires KYC and an address of yours which is known to others.

To mix, so far Chipmixer is the best IMO.

Thanks. So, just to clarify, for RECEIVING I keep my VPN "on" whenever I open my receiving wallet.. which involves;

Creating the wallet address to receive coins,
Checking my wallet to see if the coins have arrived from the mixer
Sending the mixed coins onto a destination
.. ?

[Avery_39]

Avery_39 you can never be fully anonymous. Don't fool yourself on this: you can take all the necessary steps to try to be as anonymous as possible but you will never reach 100%

Having said that I suggest you look into:

• Wasabi wallet

https://medium.com/@keratichop/how-to-use-wasabi-wallet-coinjoin-guide-3102f8cc5d3c

• Samourai Wallet

https://medium.com/samourai-wallet/diving-head-first-into-whirlpool-anonymity-sets-4156a54b0bc7

Before making any move try to reach a level of confidence with the matter, otherwise you are only going to do a big mess.

If you don't feel comfortable mixing coins yourself then use mixers but do your own research before using them and try to compare them.
My 2 sats for you.

Thank you. I will study your Wasabi info link.  I really like the idea of it using Tor all the time as standard.

I have briefly looked at Samourai before, it looks good, but alas I don't have a PC or an Android phone.

[Avery_39]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/  Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/  using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/  using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.

Thanks, ok:
1/ Use Onion version of a mixer
2/ [same as above]
3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet?  (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)

I have downloaded Wasabi but have never used it before. Why do you suggest Wasabi be used in addition to the Mixer?

I suggest the use of it for total anonymity cause the maybe some mistake from mixing company ending.

Thanks for explaining

To safely receive coins from the mixer, can't a Trezor be used in conjunction with a VPN?

Using VPN with Trezor is completely useless because Trezor is not privacy wallet and you should be fine if you follow the process I posted earlier.

Thank you

[hulla]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/  Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/  using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/  using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.

Thanks, ok:
1/ Use Onion version of a mixer
2/ [same as above]

Thats correct but you still need to understand the basic setting of  Tor fir total anonymity.

3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet?  (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)

This would be stressful. Just send the coin normal to the mixing which surf through tor but i recommend chipmix or blender while you reach the coin throuh wasabi and use wasabi to send your personal wallet.
Note : dont use wasabi to send large amount of coin due to some shortcomings.

[Bitum]

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai  - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

Thanks for pointing out that for me personally this would be the best path in the future. I do not do any criminal business, but if it continues with anonymity, then I will definitely use it. I just don't like when someone wants to control me, including the state

[Avery_39]

Thats correct but you still need to understand the basic setting of  Tor fir total anonymity.

Thanks for the Tor link. I have used the Tor browser before, but it looks like the only other option if Torifying an application, which reading the guide (https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorifyHOWTO) looks very complicated, and will most likely be beyond my current understanding and abilities.

I think I will have to settle for using Tor-based programs like Wasabi Wallet to receive my coin from the mixer, while also using a VPN. 
A server room used by ExpressVPN was raided by the Turkish Police not so long ago, and they found nothing.. no logs of user activity. Link to news article: https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/expressvpn-server-seized-in-turkey-verifyies-no-logs-claim/

3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet?  (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)

This would be stressful. Just send the coin normal to the mixing which surf through tor but i recommend chipmix or blender while you reach the coin throuh wasabi and use wasabi to send your personal wallet.
Note : dont use wasabi to send large amount of coin due to some shortcomings.

Thank you, I think this will be the process I will follow:

Trezor wallet (use with ExpressVPN) - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMix) - - - - - > Wasabi wallet (automatically on Tor) (use with ExpressVPN) - - - - - > Destination wallet

Regarding Wasabi and sending large amounts, what amount of BTC do you/they consider to be "large"? – And what might be "problematic"?

.

[shield132]

The basics for security are: Tails (Linux), VPN, Tor and then mixers but for the sake of god, why do you need them? If you want to buy something legal but at the same time don't want to leave traces, believe me, just using random reputable mixer without vpn and other staff will be enough. No one ever will makr any investigation on a person who buys clothes or dietary supplements online. They make investigation when there is high doubts around certain person.
If what you do is legal, then no need to worry. For educational purposes, I already said shortly basics of stack for higher security. If security is the field you are interested in, then learn it. Just 1-2 answer from this forum won't help.

[ChipMixer]

Mixer (ChipMix)

Our service full name is ChipMixer. There is another service called "ChipMix" which impersonates our service.

Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Wasabi wallet (automatically on Tor) (use with ExpressVPN)

ChipMixer gives you private keys that should not be sweeped instantly for better privacy.
Wasabi wallet cannot import ChipMixer private keys.

If you want to use both - you should add another wallet (ie. Electrum) where you can import private keys before sending it to Wasabi.
Or use Wasabi first then ChipMixer.