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Author Topic: Remote Working and Inequality  (Read 800 times)
mu_enrico
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September 02, 2020, 05:33:51 AM
 #41

The theory that "working-from-home" has the same productivity compared with working in the office seems like a myth to me.There's no valid evidence for such thing.
It depends on the type or the character; it's x and y type thing.

Imagine having a family and kids and trying to work from home.The distractions are just too many.
90% of the jobs can't become remote,so the benefits of remote work are exaggerated.Also,there are some flaws,which have to be further examined.You don't socialize enough with people(I mean directly,not online chatting and emails),when you are working from home.Sitting in front of a PC for many hours every day is not healthy.
Remote work means freelance,so you might have to compete with freelancers from India and Pakistan,who are willing to work remotely for $1 per hour,so your employer might cut your salary and make more profits,which actually means MORE inequality than before.
Apart from the distractions, workers (generally) have more facilities and comfort in the office. Saying that someone can work anywhere as long as there is a computer, is bullshit lol. And if the worker dealing with lots of coworkers or involves lots of coordinations, nothing can replace actual face to face discussion.

Anyway, sure remote working can make economic activities less centralized, but at the expense of productivity since not all jobs can be done flawlessly with it.

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September 02, 2020, 02:35:19 PM
 #42

Inequality has existed before, it still exists and also will continue to exist in the future too. But the amount of Inequality within the same industry will reduce. What I mean by that is, if you are a person doing work in Asia you will get paid he same as a person doing work in America if it is the same work profile.

Agree. Inequality existed long before time immemorial and will continue to exist whether we like it or not. I guess inequality is really inevitable since we can’t totally revamped a system overall. Inequality will remain in society as long as humans will live.

About remote working, yes, it can really be beneficial and could really reduce the inequality for races and to the entire industry as well but it also has its cons.

It would be hard especially to those new recruits to work in a remote workplace since new applicants need to be supervised and guided accordingly by their superiors. Unless it’s I.T related work that usually is home based for most countries.

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September 02, 2020, 03:11:18 PM
 #43


Agree. Inequality existed long before time immemorial and will continue to exist whether we like it or not. I guess inequality is really inevitable since we can’t totally revamped a system overall. Inequality will remain in society as long as humans will live.

About remote working, yes, it can really be beneficial and could really reduce the inequality for races and to the entire industry as well but it also has its cons.

It would be hard especially to those new recruits to work in a remote workplace since new applicants need to be supervised and guided accordingly by their superiors. Unless it’s I.T related work that usually is home based for most countries.

Inequality has existed before, and will continue to exist, but its about the degree of inequality. Right now, across the world but especially in the US it is unbearably high. It can't continue.

Re: remote work, I think the pros far outweigh the cons. As the OP mentions, it allows people in different areas to compete for high level jobs in cities they might not be able to afford to live in. In the US, it also means those with unreliable forms of transport (i.e. they don't own a car) can also compete for those jobs. The learning curve is not that high, especially as younger people keep entering the workforce.
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September 02, 2020, 03:55:09 PM
 #44

I guess in the near future, working online will dominate the working class and allow people to work from any location so far as there is good internet access. The covid 19 pandemic has really taught the world a great lesson. Many people have come to appreciate the fact that a lot of activities can happen online without the need for physical contact. It's obvious some workers have become used to working from home during the lockdown and now finding it difficult to report to work like they used as restrictions are gradually easing up across the globe.
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September 02, 2020, 04:23:54 PM
 #45

Certain urban professions cannot be relocated remotely and must remain on-premises at all times:

- Shops, stores, supermarkets and malls (not everybody wants to buy stuff online, some like the thrill of going to stores). Also this category gets more sustained traffic from people who move into the area.
- Real estate and renting, which prospers from keeping work on-premises because they are mostly based urban areas.
- Jobs which require secret security clearances but most of these are in isolated locations anyway, far away from cities where people could possibly eavesdrop on their communications
- Pharmacies, pharmacies, pharmacies. E-doctoring has been virtually (pun intended) outlawed by many jurisdictions because it's not safe enough to be left unattended without agency supervision. Add to this point every medical profession that involves interacting with patients.
- Concert/party/summit/event planners and technicians, especially tour guides at cities (Duh.  Tongue)

And certain jobs only exist in rural or otherwise areas far away from cities:

- Heavy industries, oil refineries, and anything else that involves working at a factory.
- Farming and fishing, semi-automated or not
- While not only existing in rural areas, there are many more gas stations and convenience store hybrids throughout rural areas than the ones concentrated in cities.

So it makes no sense to try to move one industry from one geographic area to another.

Now, the majority of people are desperate for lockdown to end so they can walk on the streets again, and an end to quarantine restrictions alone is sufficient to precipitate more customers at brick-and-mortar stores, which means more profitability and back to stability. Which means there is no need to force organizations to be more remote-friendly.

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September 02, 2020, 07:46:17 PM
 #46

-snip-
Many people want to continue to remote-work, companies have noticed that productivity has remained consistent during lockdown, and that continued remote-working offers huge financial savings... perhaps the death knell has been sounded for the culture of presenteeism.
-snip-
Source? I mean where/which companies found that the productivity remained consistent? At least from what I have seen, productivity fell down a lot. Things became harder and every step kinda created confusion. Working at physical office, it was easy to follow the chain of command. But things becoming virtual caused a problem to pass information from one point to another and get instant answers/results. I can tell you from my own experience since I now regularly have to deal with people working from home (while i have to go to the office!) and it is not easy.
Check google help section. There is a huge announcement over there saying that any help might get delayed due to the current situation. 

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September 02, 2020, 11:19:54 PM
 #47

The COVID-19 pandemic situation that has not ended, has forced several companies to run remote work. And it's been proven effective.
Especially in big cities where the virus spread rate is higher, running remote working is the best solution. In big cities, it is usually supported
by good internet access, so it's great chance for running remote working. In my opinion, working from home must be maintained until the
vaccine is found, because it is proven to be effective at preventing the spread of the corona virus.

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September 02, 2020, 11:45:42 PM
 #48

-snip-
Many people want to continue to remote-work, companies have noticed that productivity has remained consistent during lockdown, and that continued remote-working offers huge financial savings... perhaps the death knell has been sounded for the culture of presenteeism.
-snip-
Source? I mean where/which companies found that the productivity remained consistent? At least from what I have seen, productivity fell down a lot. Things became harder and every step kinda created confusion. Working at physical office, it was easy to follow the chain of command. But things becoming virtual caused a problem to pass information from one point to another and get instant answers/results. I can tell you from my own experience since I now regularly have to deal with people working from home (while i have to go to the office!) and it is not easy.
Check google help section. There is a huge announcement over there saying that any help might get delayed due to the current situation. 
Was supposed to say the same thing when it comes to productivity differences which its totally different compared when you are working on an actual office than doing jobs remotely.
Lots of companies gone bankrupt yet there are things which arent efficient even if done remotely and its never been an easy thing even if you are on the convenience of your own
home i cant still find myself to be effective or efficient on my work.

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September 03, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
 #49

Before the work from home concept implemented everywhere the AI technology will take over all those job opportunities so they are nit really.eeded anymore and in future there will be more inequality in the wealth distribution and don't know what people will do for their foods if all the jobs are acquired by AI robots.

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September 03, 2020, 03:01:56 PM
 #50

What I am really afraid of is the fact that there could be some people who could argue that minimum wage should be renogiated for remote workers. Let's say you work for a company but now remote work is a lot more common so they hire you but they tell you that you do not have to go to work unless required, so you go to offices maybe once or twice a month, rest of the time you are at home, these companies could really argue that you should be paid less than what the minimum salary is.

Obviously not for people like coders and such, but for people that could be replaced easier, think about call operators, if you have that type of work they could give you the equipment you need and you can do it at home and fill a quota and just get paid under minimum salary according to them.

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September 03, 2020, 03:23:48 PM
 #51

Before the work from home concept implemented everywhere the AI technology will take over all those job opportunities so they are nit really.eeded anymore and in future there will be more inequality in the wealth distribution and don't know what people will do for their foods if all the jobs are acquired by AI robots.
All jobs won't be acquired by the AI robots that's for sure and even if they are acquired by the robots then also there will be new jobs created for the jobless people. People say that in future we won't be needing doctors anymore and the work will be done by the robots, but as a matter of fact the doctors would still be needed to monitor those robots, all they are going to do is to assist the doctor in the surgeries. Same applies to trading too, Wall Street is being run by the AI trading interfaces and yet there are countless jobs there too, everyone needs a good trader now and then.

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September 03, 2020, 04:51:08 PM
 #52

Before the work from home concept implemented everywhere the AI technology will take over all those job opportunities so they are nit really.eeded anymore and in future there will be more inequality in the wealth distribution and don't know what people will do for their foods if all the jobs are acquired by AI robots.
All jobs won't be acquired by the AI robots that's for sure and even if they are acquired by the robots then also there will be new jobs created for the jobless people. People say that in future we won't be needing doctors anymore and the work will be done by the robots, but as a matter of fact the doctors would still be needed to monitor those robots, all they are going to do is to assist the doctor in the surgeries. Same applies to trading too, Wall Street is being run by the AI trading interfaces and yet there are countless jobs there too, everyone needs a good trader now and then.
Robots and AI both are not same, if there is a complete AI robot which can do surgery then it eill have more success rate than human and there will be no need for anyone to monitor them because they have their own thinking ability

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September 03, 2020, 06:53:33 PM
 #53

The theory that "working-from-home" has the same productivity compared with working in the office seems like a myth to me.There's no valid evidence for such thing.
Imagine having a family and kids and trying to work from home.The distractions are just too many.
90% of the jobs can't become remote,so the benefits of remote work are exaggerated.Also,there are some flaws,which have to be further examined.You don't socialize enough with people(I mean directly,not online chatting and emails),when you are working from home.Sitting in front of a PC for many hours every day is not healthy.
Remote work means freelance,so you might have to compete with freelancers from India and Pakistan,who are willing to work remotely for $1 per hour,so your employer might cut your salary and make more profits,which actually means MORE inequality than before.
But you are not taking into consideration the savings in time for the employee, even if he has distractions at home as long as his family respects his time at work then there are no issues in that front and when you add the savings in terms of transportation and time to get to your job or even to not have to wake up as early because now the office is just a few steps away instead of being at the other side of the city then we can begin to see how productivity can stay the same.

However I will admit that remote working could drop salaries if you have to compete against professionals all over the world.



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September 03, 2020, 07:37:37 PM
 #54

Remote work is a very nice thing, and for me I very much prefer to work remotely. But, I don’t think that should be the case for everyone. And I am saying that because I don’t like the situation the world is in right now, I would very much prefer that things goes back to normal as they used to be than what they are right now, everything should be balanced. Before this covid19 outbreak there have been lots of companies and people that were working remotely, and I think things were balanced then, than now that everyone is now working from home.

Apart from that not all jobs can be done from home because there are people who have jobs that can’t be done from home and that will lead to them being jobless.
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September 03, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
 #55

Certain urban professions cannot be relocated remotely and must remain on-premises at all times:
- Shops, stores, supermarkets and malls (not everybody wants to buy stuff online, some like the thrill of going to stores). Also this category gets more sustained traffic from people who move into the area.

But once some people do indeed buy more stuff online, the number of clients in shopping centers goes down and they have no choice other than downsizing.
And the impact would be pretty serious.
Just for comparison, as you mentioned oil refineries, the largest oil refinery in the US has 1200 employees, Mall of America has 12 000.  Grin

- While not only existing in rural areas, there are many more gas stations and convenience store hybrids throughout rural areas than the ones concentrated in cities.

Not quite matching the statistics of the largest gas station chains here, there is another thing, those gas stations and stores might be more in numbers but at the same time, they have fewer clients and if the population around it would double they wouldn't be overcrowded, whenever I go to my parents the only store bigger than a closet is almost empty and I don't think that I saw more than twice another car pumping gas.

What I am really afraid of is the fact that there could be some people who could argue that minimum wage should be renogiated for remote workers.

Germany had no minimum wage law till 2013, yet thousands wold move there from countries with minimum wage laws, imposing it is just patching one tenth of the problem.

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September 04, 2020, 06:13:22 AM
 #56

I don't even understand conceptually how you managed to link the transition to permanent remote work and the reduction of inequality in society.
I will just say that if I want to live further from the center that would be cheaper - I will not go to some poor area or a Pakistani ghetto, I will choose an area where people live well and where the criminal situation is low. And then what? How will this help "reduce inequality"?
In addition - do not forget that people live in the city center not only because they need to go to work but also because it is CONVENIENT. There is a difference when you have Albert right at home or you have to go to it for an hour by car/transport and the nearest store closes at 6 PM isn't it?
Maybe I'm really stupid and don't understand something, but it's hard for me to imagine how what you want will happen.
Remember - in places where it is better to live, the price of life will only grow because there will be those who want to live well.
Even a village can grow into a megalopolis. What's the point, then?



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September 04, 2020, 06:38:27 AM
 #57

It is not as simple as it might be perceived by many people. Let me use an example in my country for instance... I know of employers that have family members that own commercial property and they rent these properties to those family members and then give kickbacks to the family members that are renting it from them. (So they benefit from occupying these buildings)

They also deduct "rent" expenses for tax purposes, so with the kickbacks and the money they get from the tax ...this rent actually gets paid for by the taxpayer and the family members that rent it to them. (Also a source of income to those family members)

So it is complex tricks from business people like this that are keeping employees from working from home. (Now you can see why some people are rich and some people are poor)  Roll Eyes

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September 04, 2020, 09:25:57 AM
 #58

In some countries, teleworking has become a common way of life. For example, in the USA, this has been practiced for a long time. Many people find it more productive than working in offices.

I also found many pluses for this kind of work. I live in a place where it is quite difficult to get a job in my specialty. And as an option, I was offered to work from home. My company office is located in another city. You can guess how many problems were solved for me. Especially hourly traffic jams that line up on the roads.

Therefore, as a conclusion, my opinion is that for some people, remote work, on the contrary, has become a good way out of their difficult situation with employment.





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CarlosCorreia
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September 04, 2020, 09:55:13 AM
 #59

In IT there were already a few people working from home before the pandemic, but now I do not understand how they like.
Probably there are some people quite ante-social and that’s why they like working from home.

I was not made for working from house. I miss the interaction with other people, just wondering around in the office for a while. The coffee breaks.
Actually, I’m kind of lucky and have good conditions at home, big desk, second monitor, good chair, no kids wondering around.
But I see many friends that have absolutely no conditions at home.

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September 04, 2020, 10:34:03 AM
 #60

Unfortunately, the companies consider it ; unprofessional at the same time at home they do think there are disturbances at home which can actually link to these things worsening with time.

They don't really care about the stats but at the end of the day they choose to ask people to come over even though it means they are risking their health.

It's not just jobs but also colleges, we used to have classes from 8-4 , no one used to focus for more than 4 hours and now we are having the unnecessary lectures online , most of the time we slept in those. The university does not need knowledge, all they need is presence.

These things needs to get evolved. Coronavirus can actually make sure that people can get a better chance at improving their working and studying conditions.

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.Duelbits.
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