Revoke self-moderating privileges from korner and other hypertrolls

[nutildah]

Limiting the existing accounts - or better yet, banning them - would raise the cost of trolling.

At the very least email addresses should have to be verified in order to create an account.

I know theymos wants to keep the barrier to entry extremely low, but as of now its simply too low.

We're not going to risk driving away the "next satoshi" by requiring verification of the provided email address.

Also, the "no trolling" rule should probably be better enforced. If a user contributes nothing but disruption, that should be grounds for banning. We're not supposed to tag people for being trolls but at the same time the mods nearly never enforce this rule. Which means accounts should be tagged for being trolls until the rule is reasonably enforced.

[1714917277]

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[LoyceV]

Ideally - yes, not feeding the troll would be great but it's clearly not working and the troll is extremely disruptive.

Oops I fell for it

[ChiBitCTy]

Ideally - yes, not feeding the troll would be great but it's clearly not working and the troll is extremely disruptive.

Oops I fell for it

Yeah me too damnt.  Is this TOAA/CH or just a different lunatic ?

[Rizzrack]

Was just wondering... what are the benefits of allowing self-mod threads in the Reputation board in general?
If you're gonna throw sh*t at someone might as well do it in plain sight.
Maybe Scam Accusations as well.
Mostly going forward not retroactively.
Thoughts?

[suchmoon]

Was just wondering... what are the benefits of allowing self-mod threads in the Reputation board in general?
If you're gonna throw sh*t at someone might as well do it in plain sight.
Maybe Scam Accusations as well.
Mostly going forward not retroactively.
Thoughts?

Same can be said about almost any board but there are legitimate uses for it, such as to keep aforementioned trolls out. If I want to discuss something not related to cryptohunter/korner/Quickseller/etc but I know that they will cling to the topic like flies to a pile of dung I'd rather have it self-moderated than bother moderators with it.

To put it another way, removing that option from whole boards and inconveniencing legitimate users would mean trolls won.

[Rizzrack]

...
To put it another way, removing that option from whole boards and inconveniencing legitimate users would mean trolls won.

Or after a few reports the "no trolling" rule would be enforced. Just saying...

[dkbit98]

I think self-moderated threads are making more harm and not just regarding this case, but in many other abuses or creating scam fake ANN topics.
I would rather see them disabled for all users then having current situation.
Best solution would be to disable creation of self-moderated threads manually for abusers, scammers and newbies.
They could still create regular moderated topics.

[Harlot]

I don't think removing his privilege from creating self-moderated threads will stop him for continuing what he is doing, he can simply just create a new account in order to create self-moderated threads from that point. The discussion about him on the other thread was right where just by simply avoiding the topics he created this problem wouldn't exists, just by simply not posting in his thread you aren't feeding him any kind of satisfaction for his trolling.

Ideally - yes, not feeding the troll would be great but it's clearly not working and the troll is extremely disruptive. Some of those topic don't start out as trolling but eventually korner edits them, selectively removes posts, etc making it looks completely different than what the actual discussion was.

Limiting the existing accounts - or better yet, banning them - would raise the cost of trolling. Korner would need to create new accounts, farm them up, and then when those accounts inevitably expose themselves they could be limited/banned again. Look at the Bitcoin SV account - I think a lot of users feel compelled to respond because it looks like an official BSV account but in fact it has nothing to do with CSW or BSV. Taking that away would cripple korner's trollpower quite a bit.

Edited for spelling.

Alternative users in that board can create a similar topic to what korner is creating and start a normal discussion from them. To avoid some kind of plagiarism offense users before creating the topic should tweak their topic and give a reason why they created a similar topic, aside from that before creating it they should make the moderator aware on why they are doing that. In this way they could effectively avoid topics created by him, the lesser attention you give to him the more he will quiet down by himself.

[suchmoon]

Or after a few reports the "no trolling" rule would be enforced. Just saying...

I'm pretty sure anyone who reported cryptohunter et al over the last couple of years has given up hope for that rule to ever be enforced.


As an experiment I reported some of Excimer's (korner's sock du jour) posts for trolling - mostly random [necro]bumps on false accusations against users who neg-trusted Bitcoin SV and/or other alts of korner. Five reports for that plus a few shitposts in Off Topic. The latter usually get deleted, done that before. Will let you know what the success rate is on the troll reports.


A new thread where korner is talking to himself now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215763


Update on the troll reports - all "Good". Whichever mod took the time to look into this - thank you.

[DaveF]

Taking this on a bit of a rant here, but theymos and the other staff / mods don't really seem to care.
I understand their "hands off" attitude.

But, when they can make that one simple change to not allow self mod on all posts in the altcoin announcements board to not allow and spread of malware or simply ban other users that are very obviously alts to avoid bans. Then I think this is low / no priority item.

-Dave

[Quickseller]

This person is creating what is effectively scam accusations in the reputation sub as self moderated threads. This prevents the accused from bring able to respond.

This person should either have to post threads in the correct sub, or have the ability to remove posts in his self moderated threads removed.

This is not a function of his beliefs, associations, or who he is attacking. It is a function of basic fairness to those he is accusing.

As an update to the above, I had my post declaring my innocence deleted by bitcoin SV. As noted above, as a basic principle of fairness, the accused should have the ability to defend themselves in any thread about them.

[philipma1957]

If we're not banning korner's alts can we at least prevent them from creating self-modded threads?

If we can't stop him from creating alts and post here how is taking this privilege from a few of his accounts going to work?
We're talking about a lunatic who had at least 55 accounts on this forum, right now nothing is going to stop him, even if you ban all active ones he will come up with 50 more, this is his way of enjoying life.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this happening but I also know that following the forum rules and the way theymos think about, let's call it freedom of speech nothing will change. And no,I'm not going to suggest ignore, the amount of spam and nonsense that comes from that guy can flood even Switzerland...and Nepal 

I would say lets' get rid of self-moderated topics in reputation, but...that will also end in a shitshow.

the only way is ban all self mod. then slowly whitelist members.

i for one would not like to see that as i self mod a lot. i dont want my self mod privilege remoeved.

[KaneVWE]

Or after a few reports the "no trolling" rule would be enforced. Just saying...

I'm pretty sure anyone who reported cryptohunter et al over the last couple of years has given up hope for that rule to ever be enforced.


As an experiment I reported some of Excimer's (korner's sock du jour) posts for trolling - mostly random [necro]bumps on false accusations against users who neg-trusted Bitcoin SV and/or other alts of korner. Five reports for that plus a few shitposts in Off Topic. The latter usually get deleted, done that before. Will let you know what the success rate is on the troll reports.


A new thread where korner is talking to himself now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215763


Update on the troll reports - all "Good". Whichever mod took the time to look into this - thank you.

Suchmoron was challenged by Cryptohunter to present the trolling aka the false information they were presenting as true. This challenge to present examples of the trolling was given many times. Suchmoon ran away each and every time.

Suchmoron fails to realize that he is indeed the troll.
It is quite undeniable.

1. He was for months screaming that merit was a sensible,  valuable and reliable metric for indicating a great poster and a firm basis for DT or trust.  He went as far as to say that it was stupid to even suggest that some of the 99.93% of the forum were capable of making posts as good as some of the posts made by the top 0.07% of the board (based on merit earned).
Then later was found claiming good poster and bad poster were meaningless terms without strict criteria and definition for them to be measured against. Therefore demonstrating he was just spouting BS for months to troll the sensible and credible member Cryptohunter that had been saying that all along.

Suchmoron and the DT1 protection racket scum fear the truth and presentation of inconvenient events from their post histories.
If you bring up their previous wrong doing and present the evidence which they can't deny.
They will merely say you are trolling them or that you are mentally Ill.

Trolling as per the board rules is knowingly presenting false information as true.
This is DT1's roll speciality. Definitely Trolls 1.

Watch how they will attempt to mislead people away from independently verifiable truths by claiming you are trolling.
So what they are saying is the truth you are presenting is a lie? Because that is what trolling is: deliberately and intentionally presenting false information as true or claiming true and correct information is a lie or incorrect.

 Regarding self moderated threads. DT1 will often make threads with false accusations and then not allow the person accused or being discussed to post on that thread. Chief culprits of this are thepharmacist,  loyceV, and malboroza and suchmoon is all to happy to contribute and also repeatedly post off topic BS in self moderated threads others make.

DT1 are a bunch of undeniably corrupt cry babies most have instances of financially motivated wrong doing in their post histories or openly support and protect those that do.

Pathetic crying from suchmoron and the other scumbags.

2. The scumbag suchmoon was first to oppose the flag on lauda but would not dare even start to debate why he did so.

Anytime you bring evidence he can not deny suchmoon runs to the hyper troll term.
He is terrified of getting into specifics.

The same for loyceV. I note on his self moderated appeal for support for flags he removed the appeal for support of the lauda flag even though the evidence was reviewed by gmax and he said it was clearly shitty behavior. He's abusing the self moderated threads frequently.


These scum bags will always collude and stick together to protect their chipmixer sigs and other rev streams.

They fear the truth, they can't deny it since it is there for review but they will use any and all means including screaming hyper troll to attempt to mislead people. That is when handing out tags and flags doesn't work.

They simply do not understand you can't ban the truth.
Ban self moderated threads in rep for ALL  members. . There is no reason to have them there anyway.

It's simple: if you can conclusively prove a person is promugating false information or claiming that provably true statements are false (same thing really) then you provide the evidence to prove them wrong, and if they keep repeating it then they are trolling aka deliberately spreading bullshit.

If you can not, or they can prove what they are saying is true, then trying to discredit that by claiming they are trolling is actually trolling on your part. Most people screaming trolling are those that fear sensible debate regarding their or their friends histories here.

DT1 is rotten. Even mild examination of the most vocal and regular DT1 members demonstrates that clearly.

Suchmoon and most DT1 are imbeciles

They can't get through their thick skulls a few simple points.

1. The independently verifiable  truth is not trolling.
2.  Making relevant on topic posts are permitted even if they contain inconvenient truths about them
3. Claiming independently verifiable truths are trolling is actually trolling by them
4. I will record and present a strong case for any of my posts that are deleted. I will make a huge fuss and demand an explanation that stands up to scrutiny that proves my post was off topic or containing knowingly false information.
5. Posts deleted that are on topic and highly relevant demonstrate mod bias.
6. Mod bias especially by mods wearing sigs should be mentioned publically to sponsors.
7. Mods hiding up that know they would be unable to demonstrate a post was off topic but still deleted it must be slammed hard or the forum is open to gross and legitimate criticism of corruption.



Once they could grasp those simple points they would stop crying constantly and hopefully they would stop telling lies and trying to mislead the readers.

Let members post on topic relevant and truthful information where and when they want.
Simple. If you dont have anything to hide and no paid agenda to push.

You have you red tags and flags to crush free speech dont request further advantages.

[suchmoon]

korner has another highly irritating habit of deleting and re-posting bumps within 24 hours. It's a PITA to report that shit and honestly I don't even know how effective such reports can be since the dipshit will likely delete their post before a moderator can look at the report.

LoyceV's archive shows korner's binge bumping but unfortunately it doesn't show which threads it was on or whether there were posts in between so you'd have to review each one to see what's going on: https://loyce.club/archive/members/237/2371095.html

~

My offer to indulge you in one thread still stands if you can refrain from posting your walls of text elsewhere. But I'm guessing you'll weasel out of this again.

[KaneVWE]

korner has another highly irritating habit of deleting and re-posting bumps within 24 hours. It's a PITA to report that shit and honestly I don't even know how effective such reports can be since the dipshit will likely delete their post before a moderator can look at the report.

LoyceV's archive shows korner's binge bumping but unfortunately it doesn't show which threads it was on or whether there were posts in between so you'd have to review each one to see what's going on: https://loyce.club/archive/members/237/2371095.html

~

My offer to indulge you in one thread still stands if you can refrain from posting your walls of text elsewhere. But I'm guessing you'll weasel out of this again.

Suchmoon seems to have missed the points I made above.
He is still stalking my threads and trolling there.

1. He can not produced any evidence to support his claims of my presenting provably false information as true. So no proof of trolling.
2. He has no conclusive proof that I'm the alt of anybody.
3. He is demanding that my discussions and debates are ended and that members cease posting their points in response to my own.

Suchmoons actions are entirely toxic and prevent free speech at a far more serious level that bitcoinSV

Suchmoon is advocating here for a further imbalance on the forum favouring DT1. Anyone they claim is trolling should not be permitted self moderation. However suchmoon classes presenting incontrovertible proof of financially motivated wrong doing by his DT1 friends or Alts are trolling. So you can see where that would be punishing whistleblowers further.

Better to just prevent all self mod in rep for everyone.

You will engage with me on all of my threads and help by self debunking the initial opposition you offer.
Or just hide up.
" the very notion that I would be contained to one thread when I have so much knowledge and experience to offer the forum is completely  ludicrous "  as one legendary member has said before.

What can you offer me in terms of debate? I can find only self debunking or running away in your post history when dealing with real masters of debate. Well ..except unintentional support and credibility that is
 Lol.

[suchmoon]

Ok, I'll respond until you start posting elsewhere, which I guess means this will be the only response.

1. He can not produced any evidence to support his claims of my presenting provably false information as true. So no proof of trolling.

For example, you have accused myself and other users of being sockpuppets of each other. That's false. However that's not the full extent of your trolling. You constantly derail threads and create new threads attacking other users for no other reason than just having disagreements with them. That's trolling.

2. He has no conclusive proof that I'm the alt of anybody.

Your posting style, topics, verbiage, and pretty much everything about you is solid proof. Honestly I'd have more respect for you if you just admitted it or posted from your main account. OTOH even if I'm wrong, if you're impersonating cryptohunter so well you fully deserve to be treated like you're him.

3. He is demanding that my discussions and debates are ended and that members cease posting their points in response to my own.

I don't demand. I post a warning. I have not red-trusted you and have not taken any actions or made threats against users for talking to you or even supporting you so it's definitely a false claim that I'm demanding to end discussions. If someone wants to waste their time with you - more power to them.

Suchmoons actions are entirely toxic and prevent free speech at a far more serious level that bitcoinSV

Suchmoon is advocating here for a further imbalance on the forum favouring DT1. Anyone they claim is trolling should not be permitted self moderation. However suchmoon classes presenting incontrovertible proof of financially motivated wrong doing by his DT1 friends or Alts are trolling. So you can see where that would be punishing whistleblowers further.

Better to just prevent all self mod in rep for everyone.

Vote me out of DT1, see if I care.

[KaneVWE]

Ok, I'll respond until you start posting elsewhere, which I guess means this will be the only response.

1. He can not produced any evidence to support his claims of my presenting provably false information as true. So no proof of trolling.

For example, you have accused myself and other users of being sockpuppets of each other. That's false. However that's not the full extent of your trolling. You constantly derail threads and create new threads attacking other users for no other reason than just having disagreements with them. That's trolling.

2. He has no conclusive proof that I'm the alt of anybody.

Your posting style, topics, verbiage, and pretty much everything about you is solid proof. Honestly I'd have more respect for you if you just admitted or posted from your main account. OTOH even if I was wrong, if you're impersonating cryptohunter so well you fully deserve to be treated like you're him.

3. He is demanding that my discussions and debates are ended and that members cease posting their points in response to my own.

I don't demand. I post a warning. I have not red-trusted you and have not taken any actions or made threats against users for talking to you or even supporting you so it's definitely a false claim that I'm demanding to end discussions. If someone wants to waste their time - more power to them.

Suchmoons actions are entirely toxic and prevent free speech at a far more serious level that bitcoinSV

Suchmoon is advocating here for a further imbalance on the forum favouring DT1. Anyone they claim is trolling should not be permitted self moderation. However suchmoon classes presenting incontrovertible proof of financially motivated wrong doing by his DT1 friends or Alts are trolling. So you can see where that would be punishing whistleblowers further.

Better to just prevent all self mod in rep for everyone.

Vote me out of DT1, see if I care.

1. You can't just say something isn't true and therefore it become provably untrue. That is ridiculous.
Please read the post carefully.  I have also posted evidence I consider to be corroborating previously why it is plausible you're an alt of lauda. Also you are yet to explain your strange action of being first to oppose a flag where there is iron clad evidence of deception and lying for financial gain. Aka scamming. First to backstab theymos for daring to ask a proven scammer and trust abuser like lauda removed from DT. Always first to intervene when lauda is in any real danger. A similar very " caustic " posting style. Others have mentioned that they think you speak Croatian.
Knowingly presenting provably false information as true. Not as you are doing here yourself saying you believe someone is an alt of someone and presenting what you consider corroborating evidence. This is done by most of DT1. They are all trolls by your standards which do not match the forums definition anyway.

2. No conclusive proof.  Treated like cryptohunter? Goes back to again never having been able to demonstrate he knowingly presented conclusively false information as true or ever committed financially motivated wrong doing?   So no trolling there or scamming.
So there again by deliberately and knowingly you are promugating false information as true by claiming he was guilty of trolling as per boards definition.  

3. Your posts clearly say cryptohunter do not feed the troll. Do not..
You are attempting to prevent others entering legitmate discussion. That Is wrong.

4. Request yourself that you are blacklisted from DT entirely to demonstrate you don't wish to be on DT1.

5. If there is no self moderated in rep for anyone that would be fair.
People should have access to all of the on topic relevant information.

[mindrust]

Why don't you just ignore their threads.

When I saw a self-modded thread from those people, If I have something to say, I create a duplicate thread and post there. Since I know either most or all of my posts will get deleted, there is no point in posting in their threads.

Who gets to decide who is trolling anyway... Ignore them, problem solved.

[KaneVWE]

Why don't you just ignore their threads.

When I saw a self-modded thread from those I people, If I have something to say, I create a duplicate thread and post there. Since I know either most or all of my posts will get deleted, there is no point in posting in their threads.

Who gets to decide who is trolling anyway... Ignore them, problem solved.

I agree with ignore their threads if you don't like them or feel they will treat you unfairly.



Nobody decides if someone is trolling as per the board rules and the explanation of a global mod of 6 years.

You prove the information they are presenting is provably false and if they repeat it as true you can report them for trolling. Simple. Remember real trolling as per the board rules is a bannable offense. So you can't just claim people are trolling without having iron clad proof. Even scammers are not banned even if you provide incontrovertible proof.

I am personally in favor of classifying all unproven accusations relating to behavior on this forum as trolling. If you claim someone has conducted certain activity here you must be able to prove that.
If you say you suspect even then you should be forced to provide strong corroborating evidence.

This goes for ALL members no more double standards.
This thread is calling for double standards.

Everyone here has the same opportunity which is to have their evidence, arguments and points analysed publically.

[suchmoon]

1. You can't just say something isn't true and therefore it become provably untrue. That is ridiculous.

I know for a fact that I'm not Lauda's alt. So I can surely make that statement. Whether anyone wants to believe me or your made-up "proof" - it's up to them. It is well known that it's impossible to disprove sockpuppeting conclusively even with KYC. So let's take your "proof" apart:

Please read the post carefully.  I have also posted evidence I consider to be corroborating previously why it is plausible you're an alt of lauda. Also you are yet to explain your strange action of being first to oppose a flag where there is iron clad evidence of deception and lying for financial gain. Aka scamming.

I don't know which flag you're talking about. I have opposed many frivolous flags.

First to backstab theymos for daring to ask a proven scammer and trust abuser like lauda removed from DT.

If this is about that PM - I thought and still think it was ill-conceived regardless of who the target was. There's a lot of scum (to borrow your word) in DT1 and theymos is not taking any action against e.g. peloso, which is quite puzzling considering the attitude towards Lauda. But all other things being equal I'd rather have no action (and leaving it up to the community to decide) rather than mass PMs trying to tilt the scales. Keep in mind that anyone else sending such unsolicited PM would risk a ban if users report it.

Always first to intervene when lauda is in any real danger.

Considering that I'm excluding Lauda and generally disagree with quite a few Lauda's actions I don't think "always" is accurate.

A similar very " caustic " posting style.

Guilty as charged.

Others have mentioned that they think you speak Croatian.

I don't.

Knowingly presenting provably false information as true. Not as you are doing here yourself saying you believe someone is an alt of someone and presenting what you consider corroborating evidence. This is done by most of DT1. They are all trolls by your standards which do not match the forums definition anyway.

It's not the alt accusation that makes you a troll. It's the disruptive inflammatory walls of text you post all over the forum, whether it's about Lauda, or DT, or merits, or moderators deleting your posts, or any other "issues" that you make up as you go.

2. No conclusive proof.  Treated like cryptohunter? Goes back to again never having been able to demonstrate he knowingly presented conclusively false information as true or ever committed financially motivated wrong doing?   So no trolling there or scamming.
So there again by deliberately and knowingly you are promugating false information as true by claiming he was guilty of trolling as per boards definition.  

I never accused you of scamming so that's a straw man right there.

3. Your posts clearly say cryptohunter do not feed the troll. Do not..
You are attempting to prevent others entering legitmate discussion. That Is wrong.

It's a warning. What users do with it - it's up to them. What you think about it - I don't care. It doesn't even say "troll" BTW.

4. Request yourself that you are blacklisted from DT entirely to demonstrate you don't wish to be on DT1.

I see no reason to do that but feel free to convince me that the forum would be better of without me in DT1 and I'll consider it.

5. If there is no self moderated in rep for anyone that would be fair.
People should have access to all of the on topic relevant information.

I don't think we should take away the self-mod privilege from all users just because a few hypertrolls abuse it.