SEC offered a 625K bounty for a tool to track LN and Monero

[Yaunfitda]

Here are the official documents:

https://beta.sam.gov/opp/3b7875d5236b47f6a77f64c19251af60/view?index=opp.

There are two links in there, but it's /Pilot+IRS+Crypto+RFP+FINAL.pdf that contains everything.



Page 5 says:



Phase 1 for $500k 8 months duration
Phase 2 for $125k for 120 days duration
Total: $625k

What do you think of this? Will some ethical hackers stepping and developed a tool if possible?

[avikz]

Tracing LN is not impossible but the real challenge is with Monero. That's why its usage is growing in darknet and monero is very different to track and trace. However, if I remebr correctly, Ciphertrace claimed to have developed a tool that can trace Monero.

Interestingly, this toll will be first used by US department of Homeland security as they are concerned on growing criminal usage of Monero. So I hope SEC will make use of such tools to effectively discourage and trace the crypto criminals.

[btc_angela]

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

As far as Monero goes, CipherTrace say's that they have broken it, but there are people in the Monero community say's otherwise: https://cryptobriefing.com/ciphertraces-monero-tracking-tool-isnt-effective-researcher-says/

[fiulpro]

There are many blockchain analysis services these days, so i'm sure someone will be interested with the offer.

Tracking LN isn't that hard though, you just need become node with biggest balance available with some incentive that makes Bitcoiner connect to your node (such as major exchange or merchant)

1. At the same time you have to offer the person who is going to do that good amount of money 💰 at the same time that person might be tracked down all his life by the government itself.

Government never ever respects the privacy thus I do believe that one should get involved with them at their own risk.

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

As far as Monero goes, CipherTrace say's that they have broken it, but there are people in the Monero community say's otherwise: https://cryptobriefing.com/ciphertraces-monero-tracking-tool-isnt-effective-researcher-says/

If one person knows how to break it then I do believe it would create uncertainties in the future. Plus could affect everything negatively. 

I don't think that they were successful in doing that otherwise it would be all over the internet and even the website would take down the notice.

Tracing LN is not impossible but the real challenge is with Monero. That's why its usage is growing in darknet and monero is very different to track and trace. However, if I remebr correctly, Ciphertrace claimed to have developed a tool that can trace Monero.

Interestingly, this toll will be first used by US department of Homeland security as they are concerned on growing criminal usage of Monero. So I hope SEC will make use of such tools to effectively discourage and trace the crypto criminals.

Rightly said , BUT unfortunately things are not always this way , most of the times the people who are just trying to respect their privacy and doing nothing illegal are facing the consequences since government if they did get their hands on this won't stop tracking everyone down.

I do believe even if it's for the security for them to track down each and everyone out there they shouldn't pry too much into this , but I do believe this time they might have gotten a lot of complains therefore they have to.

_*_

As for me I do believe that privacy should be treated respectfully and thus people should only be bothered if there is any FIR or Complaint regarding them . This can be disastrous.

[stompix]

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

Tracking transactions withing LN won't break it up more than it has done with BTC.

So I hope SEC will make use of such tools to effectively discourage and trace the crypto criminals.

And if this tool is created "criminals" will simply switch to something else, just as they went from BTC to monero, and the SEC will be left with a useless toy, so they will have to give it another purpose, like seeing who hasn't paid its taxes for the 10 satoshi earned in a faucet in 2007.
The only good thing I see in this is that they don't currently have a tool to track all this, although it could also be a trick to give a false sentiment of security to the ones dealing on dark markets, but, let's not all nutty here.

As for CipherTrace, claims need proof to be taken seriously. Have they ever presented something?

[Quidat]

And if this tool is created "criminals" will simply switch to something else, just as they went from BTC to monero, and the SEC will be left with a useless toy, so they will have to give it another purpose, like seeing who hasn't paid its taxes for the 10 satoshi earned in a faucet in 2007.
The only good thing I see in this is that they don't currently have a tool to track all this, although it could also be a trick to give a false sentiment of security to the ones dealing on dark markets, but, let's not all nutty here.

No doubt that it would really be used in other purposes as well not just on targeting only with criminal or illegal transactions but also in to those tax evaders as well.
This had been always an issue since those tracking industry had popped out. They are really that serious on tracking up everything LN and MONERO? Its not impossible
but as said above it would be challenge when we do talk about XMR.
Indeed the question is, if they do able to create one, would they let everyone know? i guess not.

[Twinkledoe]

And if this tool is created "criminals" will simply switch to something else, just as they went from BTC to monero, and the SEC will be left with a useless toy, so they will have to give it another purpose, like seeing who hasn't paid its taxes for the 10 satoshi earned in a faucet in 2007.
The only good thing I see in this is that they don't currently have a tool to track all this, although it could also be a trick to give a false sentiment of security to the ones dealing on dark markets, but, let's not all nutty here.

No doubt that it would really be used in other purposes as well not just on targeting only with criminal or illegal transactions but also in to those tax evaders as well.
This had been always an issue since those tracking industry had popped out. They are really that serious on tracking up everything LN and MONERO? Its not impossible
but as said above it would be challenge when we do talk about XMR.
Indeed the question is, if they do able to create one, would they let everyone know? i guess not.

I don't think they will disclose all the truths behind this project. Who knows, they already have one, like the CipherTrace, they are not just saying what's their cooking? More than likely, they have been working on this project for years already, and now that they are seeing light at the end of the tunnel, the reason why they disclose this project, so as not to shock the community, if in case they will utilize it to other fact-finding activities.

[pixie85]

At some point all existing coins will become traceable but there will be new untraceable coins to fill the gap.

If you went back a few decades to the security people had on their computers in the 90s you'd be able to break it in minutes.

I remember when people thought protecting your computer with bios and windows passwords was good

Many sites had bugs where you could see the password in the code if someone forgot to log out. Technology evolves so fast.

The SEC will spend a year getting it ready and another year making their people learn how to trace transactions. By that time there will be a new new privacy coins.

[gentlemand]

At some point all existing coins will become traceable but there will be new untraceable coins to fill the gap.

If it's to be an eternal game of cat and mouse then surely dedicated privacy coins have no future. Why would you bother if they're cracked repeatedly and people skip to the next one?

A prominent one needs to fall before that becomes a likely scenario.

[hatshepsut93]

And if this tool is created "criminals" will simply switch to something else, just as they went from BTC to monero, and the SEC will be left with a useless toy, so they will have to give it another purpose, like seeing who hasn't paid its taxes for the 10 satoshi earned in a faucet in 2007.
The only good thing I see in this is that they don't currently have a tool to track all this, although it could also be a trick to give a false sentiment of security to the ones dealing on dark markets, but, let's not all nutty here.

As for CipherTrace, claims need proof to be taken seriously. Have they ever presented something?

Darknet markets still use Bitcoin a lot, despite Monero being much better in terms of privacy. This is likely because Bitcoin is much easier to obtain and more liquid, so I doubt that SEC will find this tool useless at any point, providing it would be able to work. And 625k is probably not a big money for SEC, so even if this tool would only be highly used for a few years, it's probably still worth it for them.

But I doubt they'll be able to effectively track LN payments, you'd need to have a good amount of spy nodes that route huge amounts of transactions, and still it would only be probabilistic.

[bbc.reporter]

Tracing LN is not impossible but the real challenge is with Monero. That's why its usage is growing in darknet and monero is very different to track and trace. However, if I remebr correctly, Ciphertrace claimed to have developed a tool that can trace Monero.

Interestingly, this toll will be first used by US department of Homeland security as they are concerned on growing criminal usage of Monero. So I hope SEC will make use of such tools to effectively discourage and trace the crypto criminals.

Agreed, a beginner who uses Monero will be more anonymous than expert who uses bitcoin and coinjoin. The results of the bounty will only become free marketing for Monero hehehe.

I reckon the Ciphertrace claims were debunked by a Monero Research Lab developer already.

[mk4]

What do you think of this? Will some ethical hackers stepping and developed a tool if possible?

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

Given enough money in exchange, I can almost guarantee that probably even the biggest bitcoin and privacy advocate could easily give in to the offer. The privacy aspect of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will be a cat and mouse game.

[TravelMug]

What do you think of this? Will some ethical hackers stepping and developed a tool if possible?

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

Given enough money in exchange, I can almost guarantee that probably even the biggest bitcoin and privacy advocate could easily give in to the offer. The privacy aspect of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will be a cat and mouse game.

Correct, that is still a huge money to begin with and every one will cave in.

And as far as I know, There's still a lot of question of Cyphertrace claim regarding Monero. There tools still depend on whether some Monero users uses exchanges specially US based. And another thing, they didn't release it publicly.

[larus]

Looks like govs really dont like monero. Another one proof that this coin is really private

[Kakmakr]

The other day there was a article where they said these privacy coins like Monero can be traced and now they are offering money to whomever can provide a tool that can be used to trace these transactions. LoLz!

They must really be desperate to catch some people, if they are willing to put up money for this kind of tool. They will surely hit the jackpot, if someone can do this... because they can them prosecute a bunch of criminals in one go.... 

[buwaytress]

The other day there was a article where they said these privacy coins like Monero can be traced and now they are offering money to whomever can provide a tool that can be used to trace these transactions. LoLz!

They must really be desperate to catch some people, if they are willing to put up money for this kind of tool. They will surely hit the jackpot, if someone can do this... because they can them prosecute a bunch of criminals in one go....  

Everyone's talking out of their ass. SEC, IRS, Interpol all have contracts with Chainalysis or similar, and their own ex-staff said they even had problems tracing CoinJoin, never mind privacy coins! Gotta admire their overselling though, seems to have worked!

There was also talk about that 6900 BTC wallet being passed around hacker to hacker, with no one being able to crack the wallet.dat for over two years, and IBM claiming they'd only need 2.5 days if they tried (but obviously talking out of their ass even with quantum computing).

[NotATether]

There was also talk about that 6900 BTC wallet being passed around hacker to hacker, with no one being able to crack the wallet.dat for over two years, and IBM claiming they'd only need 2.5 days if they tried (but obviously talking out of their ass even with quantum computing).

IBM breaking open wallet files is new to me. I thought they were just another cloud computing company with a lot of customers. I know for one thing that IBM only ventures in low-risk professions, and brute forcing passwords doesn't exactly sound like a comfy profit cushion to me. Also weird is them getting involved in this black-hat activity. Surely, the government must've wanted to seize the wallet file and contract private companies for the task if IBM was poking its head in there.

[btc_angela]

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

Given enough money in exchange, I can almost guarantee that probably even the biggest bitcoin and privacy advocate could easily give in to the offer. The privacy aspect of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will be a cat and mouse game.

Probably, I read the some articles and try to spin to look like this is a grant from SEC, Lol. And with that huge amount, there could be advocates that can change tune and accept that offer. Our privacy has already been compromised if you have accounts in a KYC mandated exchanges, anyways.

@NotATether - https://newsroom.ibm.com/2020-08-20-IBM-Delivers-Its-Highest-Quantum-Volume-to-Date-Expanding-the-Computational-Power-of-its-IBM-Cloud-Accessible-Quantum-Computers

[7788bitcoin]

What do you think of this? Will some ethical hackers stepping and developed a tool if possible?

It is not that surprising to see that the government is willing to spend huge amounts to crack these things and i have seen articles and threads in this forum about some company planning to release tools that would track monero and other similar privacy related coins and if those claims are true then it is possible these big money can make changes.

[bbc.reporter]

What do you think of this? Will some ethical hackers stepping and developed a tool if possible?

Definitely, there will be developers that will be interested with that huge amount in the table. But if you are a real bitcoiner, you shouldn't help the government break LN.  .

Given enough money in exchange, I can almost guarantee that probably even the biggest bitcoin and privacy advocate could easily give in to the offer. The privacy aspect of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will be a cat and mouse game.

I reckon the privacy aspect of bitcoin will be a cat and mouse game that always ends with the cat tracing the transactions.



In any case, who has solved Monero's privacy aspect?