Even More Support for Covid as Engineered Financial Reset

[BobK71]

See my recent post for background.

We now have direct evidence that the virus was engineered in a lab, in the form of a published paper by Dr Li-Meng Yan, open to peer review from around the world.

The interesting question is: why did establishment Western scientists argue so hard that the virus was natural?  And even more interesting: why did the entire Western mainstream media allow only that side of the argument to air?  Who have that kind of power?

On almost any issue, the West doesn't defend China.  Why do it now?  And on such an important issue?  Maybe revealing China as the engineer of the virus gets one step closer to the truth, and the truth is that the West and China collaborated on the virus?  (E.g. we know for sure Fauci himself has been involved in 'gain of function' research supported jointly by US and Chinese government labs, ie looking into how we can make viruses more transmittable, etc.)

Who knows, if China is made to look guilty, it will reveal evidence that the West was involved?

Anyway, as I said, the paper is open to peer review.  Oh, wait, sorry, but Twitter just suspended Dr Yan's account from where she published the link to the paper.  Oops.

Surely, the entire Western establishment can't be afraid of the writings of a 'rogue Chinese scientist?'

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[jackg]

It doesn't promote integrity to block someone's research ideas based on even a hunch.

I'm sticking to it being somewhere between the two theories: it either came from a wet market or it came from a lab.

I doubt Europe were involved unless they were trying to make it look obvious but don't think I can say why... The US need China as a supplier of goods and they need a good trade agreement with them, the same goes for Europe so they can't exactly whistleblow.

Hopefully we'll see a hacking that can confirm whether or not it was man-made as the US department of defence have an awful grasp at making things secure...

[Darker45]

The 26-page paper which provides details supporting the virologist's suspicion that the virus has undergone "sophisticated laboratory modification rather than natural evolution" is clearly hinting in the title itself that the findings are not conclusive. The particular features of the genome which are considered unusual are only suggesting that the virus could have undergone laboratory modification. It stopped short in claiming that it is definitive in its findings.

However, China, being ruled by the ever sensitive autocratic communist party, cannot afford anybody raising suspicion against her. Hence, the immediate suppression.

Anyway, is the west arguing so hard that the virus is natural? I've heard the US countless of times accusing China of creating the virus in a laboratory. The president is even pronouncing that they would let China be held accountable for the virus spread.

By the way, your link below directs us to Yatsan's post and not yours. You must be referring to this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5275151.msg55176557#msg55176557.

See my recent post for background.

[BobK71]

The 26-page paper which provides details supporting the virologist's suspicion that the virus has undergone "sophisticated laboratory modification rather than natural evolution" is clearly hinting in the title itself that the findings are not conclusive. The particular features of the genome which are considered unusual are only suggesting that the virus could have undergone laboratory modification. It stopped short in claiming that it is definitive in its findings.

However, China, being ruled by the ever sensitive autocratic communist party, cannot afford anybody raising suspicion against her. Hence, the immediate suppression.

Anyway, is the west arguing so hard that the virus is natural? I've heard the US countless of times accusing China of creating the virus in a laboratory. The president is even pronouncing that they would let China be held accountable for the virus spread.

By the way, your link below directs us to Yatsan's post and not yours. You must be referring to this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5275151.msg55176557#msg55176557.

See my recent post for background.

Thanks for correcting my link.  I just edited it.

The entire Western virology establishment came out to argue strenuously that the virus was natural, even in the face of later, hard-to-dismiss evidence (e.g. the polyfurin cleavage site).  It is their argument that prevailed in the Western mainstream media.  (Again, who have that kind of power?  Scientists who try to cover their own previous collaboration with China don't seem to have this power.  Who can tell Twitter what to do?)

The people who came out to blame China in any way (even for the simple fact of starting the spread of the virus among humans) are Trump and his associates and followers.  Trump is not personally part of the Western establishment, but he objectively plays a useful supporting role.  If the world does come to believe the virus was man-made and deliberately released, he has already started the narrative that it's China's crime.

Note that Trump's faction never mentions the money and help the US (and Canada) has provided China in the research work, and in the apparently quite tortured justification for such work.

I'm not a virologist, but have read a detailed summary of the paper.  It looks like the author's entire purpose is to prove the crime, albeit using a painstaking and science-based approach, and thus not being able to say the exact words 'they did it.'  Anyway, the paper is out and open to peer review, and the truth has to come out now.

[franky1]

the flaws of that doctor. is that the doctor 'feels' and suggests' that the chances of a single animal having both varients at the same time and still live long enough to spread the mutation is small

..
well the thing about nature is when dealing with millions of pangolins in nature. inter mingling in different nests  it only takes 1 in a million

its not like there was only 1 pangolin that had mutations. in nature there are millions of animals cross infecting each other. offering millions of oppertunities for one varient to be different enough to be a nasty varient.. and yep it happened

..
want a prime example
college freshers get 'freshers flu' where they mingle with new people and cross contaminate with others weak affecting nasties. but because there are a few varients around they mount up and make symptoms worse by having to handle more then one flu at a time. yep its an actual thing and yep its common

..
the doctor writes as if one pangolin must have been infected by 2 viruses. and its all dependant on that one pangolin.
never actually showing the reality that millions of pangolins are infected, meaning a few thousand with multiple infections, meaning dozens with a noticable mutation and then 1 that got into the hands of a wetmarket farmer

whats next. is she gonna denounce the possibility of a african person with green eyes as being natural. and say that it must be some cyborg made in a lab.
sorry but nature actually surprises you. and if you can grasp the amount of randomness of nature you can start to grasp that nature is not always friendly

i know she wants to paint a picture that the odds are a million to one..
but what she is not saying is that yep its not happening to all animals every day. but the odds are every 10-15 years there is going to be a mutation of a virus that is gonna harm

cow, bird, swine and now pangolin.. who knows what animal is next..
oh and remember that cows and chickens and pigs now have vaccines and antibiotics to prevent them spreading their viruses into humans. so next time you eat a wild deer or any other wild animal.. think about the odds

.. the problem with conspiracy tinfoil hatter is that they cannot grasp the complexity and randomness of nature so they try to ignore understanding nature and instead try finding a fo to blame it on. so they blame some entity. like a god or a government or a lab tech

[TheCoinGrabber]

Well a fat guy from a certain ethnicity once said that the global economic machinery would be moved to China. By what means, well there's many possible ways...

[Cnut237]

my working theory is that China and the West were both responsible for deliberately releasing the coronavirus in order to reset the global financial and economic systems

But why would they do this? The people in charge of a system can already control it so that it benefits them. The current global financial and economic system has been carefully developed and refined over hundreds of years. I can't see any convincing reason why they would want to suddenly reset everything. It's difficult to believe that the huge economic downturns experienced everywhere are intentional and that all the governments who are trying to minimise damage are actually all in on a big secret, and are deliberately trashing their own countries.

[truthofshunya]

Well, ladies and gentlemen. Boys, girls and binaries. The New World order is here.

[franky1]

here is a big hyperthetical

imagine it was man made and released to a wetmarket and then spread.


now lets add in the facts
from the 18th of december to the 29th china done all it could to control the spread. by the 29th they only had a dozen cases and only just identified its not a normal pathogen on a season.
they actually locked down their borders promptly.

heres the kicker and another fact
while china grounded all its flights and stoppe americans getting out of china to keep it under control. trump actually made an order to send american flights into china to get its people and bring them to america
these are called repatriation flights.
yep it was trump that brought it to the US

so have fun trying to twist the actual facts. even if you can try to persuade people to say its man made. the facts that repatriation flights were an actual thing. makes trump accountable for how it spread to america

also the lack of track and trace/self isolation of those 'repatriates' the lack of any action until march. are all faults on trump

have fun

[yohananaomi]

This has happened and is real even though it needs accurate proof, but what is now needed is how the Covid-19 problem can be resolved and resolved. because now it is more important to solve the pandemic problem than the issue of when, where, how, why should be questioned.
If this pandemic is over, it is certain that there will be accurate investigations so that this problem can be opened wide and clear.

If we make a fuss about the problem and don't look for a solution so that this pandemic is over, we can be sure that many people have fallen down in vain without what they really want but we are not trying to solve more important problems.

let's make it important for the needs of many people first.

[Coyster]

Who knows, if China is made to look guilty, it will reveal evidence that the West was involved?

Mind telling you that many countries of the world already see China as being guilty of spreading the virus, thing is China is extremely powerful, and some of this countries don't want to speak up. But Donald Trump has constantly called covid-19 the "Chinese virus" and even in his latest speech in the U.N. general assembly, asked that the world should hold China accountable for this pandemic, if they, the west/America and China worked together to spread the virus, these claims by Trump makes China guilty already, why haven't they told the world what it doesn't know, that the West was involved?

That being said, whichever way the virus came about, most countries had the time to prevent it's massive spread, my country for example recorded it's first case in April, our government over here had enough time to close our borders before then and quarantine returnees, but it did nothing, till the virus came into our shores, then they started to act, can we now look to China and blame them? The situation is the same in most countries as well, if their government had been proactive and set up sensible policies, the situation wouldn't be as it is atm.

[BobK71]

the flaws of that doctor. is that the doctor 'feels' and suggests' that the chances of a single animal having both varients at the same time and still live long enough to spread the mutation is small

..
well the thing about nature is when dealing with millions of pangolins in nature. inter mingling in different nests  it only takes 1 in a million

its not like there was only 1 pangolin that had mutations. in nature there are millions of animals cross infecting each other. offering millions of oppertunities for one varient to be different enough to be a nasty varient.. and yep it happened

..
want a prime example

....

i know she wants to paint a picture that the odds are a million to one..
but what she is not saying is that yep its not happening to all animals every day. but the odds are every 10-15 years there is going to be a mutation of a virus that is gonna harm

....
.. the problem with conspiracy tinfoil hatter is that they cannot grasp the complexity and randomness of nature so they try to ignore understanding nature and instead try finding a fo to blame it on. so they blame some entity. like a god or a government or a lab tech

Yes, it would be foolish to ascribe a conspiracy to a 'rare' event when there are many chances for that event to happen.

That said, exactly how rare, is important.  There is the 'rare' of winning the lottery, and then there's the 'rare' of correctly guessing a Bitcoin private key randomly on the first try.  No. 1 is a lot more believable than no. 2.  Is this virus' birth closer to no. 1 or no. 2?  Without a lot of very specific training, I'm afraid, you and I would have to entrust even an intuition of this to some expert.

My conspiracy theory is by no means supported by the rarity of the virus birth alone.  It is supported by a combination this rarity and other attending events, including what strongly appears to be cover-up:

- The entire Western mainstream media and establishment set of virologists went out of their way to provide protection for, of all countries, China, which is  normally painted as a bad actor with every chance.

- The silencing of dissenting scientific voices, instead of letting the debate play out (such as your very good argument.)

- Somehow, early containment failed in all major Western economies and China, and these just happen to be the major sufferers of the debt bubble.  This happened when quite a few other countries have shown that early containment is possible.  As I've argued, it's not just Trump and his ilk who were responsible for the slow response.  The media and entire political class implicitly supported the do-nothing response, until it was too late.

- The suppression of HCQ+ as an excellent Covid treatment, even though this fact has been well documented around the world.  The media widely published 'studies' with flat-out fake data (for which major journals have retracted the publications, too late) that almost totally destroyed the image of HCQ+ among the public.  This is not to mention publicizing numerous studies on HCQ+ that were improperly done, some inexplicably so, that are negative about this treatment.

- The sudden appearance of a virus (RatG13) that was touted as a natural close relative of Sars-CoV-2 after theories of lab-made origin appeared.  RatG13 turned out, on close examination, to be most likely a lab creation, but one that was done too hastily to provide a believable evolutionary pathway.

- First and not least, the overwhelming incentives for the global elites to deflate the global debt bubble without taking the blame for the resulting pain.  In fact, in Sept. 2019, a fire erupted deep in core of the system (the repo market crisis.) Over the weeks and months, it could only be contained but somehow never put out, even with the supposed unlimited monetary powers of the Federal Reserve.  There's a good chance that the financial system's natural implosion had already started.

Perhaps, individually, these events could each be argued as happenstance, or what not.  But taken as a whole, they present a compelling set of evidence.

As far as Dr Yan's paper, naturally she has to focus exclusively on the scientific likelihood of the theory of natural evolution.  But that doesn't mean this is the only factor worth considering.

[BobK71]

my working theory is that China and the West were both responsible for deliberately releasing the coronavirus in order to reset the global financial and economic systems

But why would they do this? The people in charge of a system can already control it so that it benefits them. The current global financial and economic system has been carefully developed and refined over hundreds of years. I can't see any convincing reason why they would want to suddenly reset everything.

The very nature of the modern world system over the last six hundred years is boom and bust.  Bubbles in asset values (booms) are inflated by state power and other forces, to benefit top politicians and bankers primarily.  At some point, the bubble must end, one way or another (busts.)  From the elites' point of view, it's better to have a controlled deflation of the bubble, especially if it can be blamed on something other than the system, because we know there will be a lot of pain and anger when the bust comes.

It's difficult to believe that the huge economic downturns experienced everywhere are intentional and that all the governments who are trying to minimise damage are actually all in on a big secret, and are deliberately trashing their own countries.

I don't think many people are in on a big secret.  There's no need.  The vast majority of policy makers are only doing what they naturally would do (including those who try to minimize the alarm and preserve the economy.)  The nature of a fundamental disruption like this pandemic, plus control of the mainstream media, are almost enough to steer the system through a controlled reset.

I study the long-term history of the modern system, and there's nothing that's truly surprising to me about this particular scheme.

[BobK71]

here is a big hyperthetical

imagine it was man made and released to a wetmarket and then spread.


now lets add in the facts
from the 18th of december to the 29th china done all it could to control the spread. by the 29th they only had a dozen cases and only just identified its not a normal pathogen on a season.
they actually locked down their borders promptly.

heres the kicker and another fact
while china grounded all its flights and stoppe americans getting out of china to keep it under control. trump actually made an order to send american flights into china to get its people and bring them to america
these are called repatriation flights.
yep it was trump that brought it to the US

so have fun trying to twist the actual facts. even if you can try to persuade people to say its man made. the facts that repatriation flights were an actual thing. makes trump accountable for how it spread to america

also the lack of track and trace/self isolation of those 'repatriates' the lack of any action until march. are all faults on trump

have fun

Let's just say, the timeline of early events is unclear, not least due to China's and the WHO's lack of transparency.  What we do know is that China arrested doctors who tried to warn the public early, ignored the Covid agenda item at the Politburo (the highest policy making body) in the early days, and basically allowed millions of people to travel out of the Wuhan/Hubei area before any sort of lockdown started.  (We're talking about early December and November.)

It does look like China wanted Covid to spread in their own country for a while.  I do agree that Trump bears major responsibility for letting the virus into and around the US, but the overlooked fact is that all of politicians, the mainstream media, and establishment scientists allowed him to do it.  His 'trust' of China and WHO was reported with no further comments.  No one made a stink that we had to contain this early.  As I wrote before, letting the virus in was a bipartisan affair, even if some people who are smarter than Trump were better at covering for themselves, by muttering things like 'this can get worse.'

Contrast this to, say, Trump's policy of withdrawing totally from Syria or improving the relationship with Russia.  The media made enough noise that he had to walk those policies back (at least partially.)  The media didn't even try, in the case of Covid.

[BobK71]

Who knows, if China is made to look guilty, it will reveal evidence that the West was involved?

Mind telling you that many countries of the world already see China as being guilty of spreading the virus, thing is China is extremely powerful, and some of this countries don't want to speak up. But Donald Trump has constantly called covid-19 the "Chinese virus" and even in his latest speech in the U.N. general assembly, asked that the world should hold China accountable for this pandemic, if they, the west/America and China worked together to spread the virus, these claims by Trump makes China guilty already, why haven't they told the world what it doesn't know, that the West was involved?

We have to make an important distinction: only Trump is blaming the virus on China (whether for negligence or deliberate release.)  Like quite a few other ideas Trump has pushed, blaming China is not mainstream US thinking (or at least not yet,) as defined by what Western establishment scientists and mainstream media are saying or ignoring.  And this is probably why China is (so far) keeping its mouth (mostly) shut.

This strikes me as classic imperial mechanics.  The US let China do the dirtiest of the work, and will try to cover for both countries.  But if the truth comes out that China created the virus, or the US wants to put more pressure on China for whatever reason, Trump's line of thinking is the tool that can be taken out of the toolbox and be used to say that China is to blame.

The top of the imperial system has always 'outsourced' dirty work to countries further down the ladder.  Britain let countries like Germany and Argentina have the worst of the financial inflation during their modernization in the 19th century.  The US did the same to China recently.  In both cases Britain/US benefited greatly from the modernization by enjoying other countries' support of their issued money and debt, yet let those countries have the worst of the consequences when the financial bubble eventually burst(s).  This is no different from a political boss letting underlings do cloak-and-dagger work, plus take the blame, when worst comes to worst.  Machiavelli probably had something to say about this!

Now we don't know if China has enough evidence to implicate the West.  We don't know if the West will succeed in stopping any blame at China.  So this is one possible variation from the classic imperial game, but we can see that the original intent was to follow the age-old formula.

That being said, whichever way the virus came about, most countries had the time to prevent it's massive spread, my country for example recorded it's first case in April, our government over here had enough time to close our borders before then and quarantine returnees, but it did nothing, till the virus came into our shores, then they started to act, can we now look to China and blame them? The situation is the same in most countries as well, if their government had been proactive and set up sensible policies, the situation wouldn't be as it is atm.

Even if any country deserves some blame for failing to contain the virus, the original problem was still the release of the virus.

[BobK71]

Also, it seems that Google has been attacking the reputation of the Great Barrington Declaration by respectable scientists who suggest most of the population should be allowed to go about their lives normally.