How freelancing websites killed design and developement bussinesses ...

[shield132]

Web developers are asking for huge amount of money for tiny html/css edits. Their prices aren't fair and now they blame freelancers from all over the world because Indian guy charges 20$ instead of 600$ and they are bad, ruining their "profitable" business.

Do you ever take into account the cost of living in the respective countries? Web devs living in the US/EU ask for considerable amounts because that's the only way they can live in their society where cost of living is very high, this without taking in account the fact that when a dev charges 600$, he doesn't get 600$ in his pockets, there is taxes and a shitload of other expenses; ofcourse they are going to call devs from countries where cost of living is low "bad" because they are breaking the market by charging peanuts for their service...

Apple manufactures Iphone in China because it's cheap to produce in this country. This isn't a business that would work in USA cause even if that happened, price would be hugely high. So, I don't care how much money they need for their daily living when you can get the same quality product in 10x less price. I've got a very professional website on wordpress for 200$ that would cost min 5000$ in US/EU if we consider it's functions, features and etc.

If editing a CSS file was that easy without breaking everything, then the client should do it himself/herself.

It's one of the most easiest thing, believe me. It's super easy to learn html/css, at least was for me but it isn't a thing that I am interested in.

[sheenshane]

Programming / Design Business has become a very low pay biz and very stressful ...

It is good if you have any supporting documentation on this or how did you know the comperagble data.

It will still depend on your skills and how you negotiate. If you really wants to be on top of your field, then build your portfolio at its finest.
Instead of doing your freelance job online, why not offer your calling cards to the market that could give you cash fee to at least lessen the subtraction of your profit/service fee? If you're going to fight against asian with rates, you will lose and it might as well consider sticking to your rate and trust your service. People have a different perspectives view regarding this matter, you cant generalized the situation.

[bits4books]

Web developers are asking for huge amount of money for tiny html/css edits. Their prices aren't fair and now they blame freelancers from all over the world because Indian guy charges 20$ instead of 600$ and they are bad, ruining their "profitable" business.

Do you ever take into account the cost of living in the respective countries? Web devs living in the US/EU ask for considerable amounts because that's the only way they can live in their society where cost of living is very high, this without taking in account the fact that when a dev charges 600$, he doesn't get 600$ in his pockets, there is taxes and a shitload of other expenses; ofcourse they are going to call devs from countries where cost of living is low "bad" because they are breaking the market by charging peanuts for their service...

Apple manufactures Iphone in China because it's cheap to produce in this country. This isn't a business that would work in USA cause even if that happened, price would be hugely high. So, I don't care how much money they need for their daily living when you can get the same quality product in 10x less price. I've got a very professional website on wordpress for 200$ that would cost min 5000$ in US/EU if we consider it's functions, features and etc.

If editing a CSS file was that easy without breaking everything, then the client should do it himself/herself.

It's one of the most easiest thing, believe me. It's super easy to learn html/css, at least was for me but it isn't a thing that I am interested in.

I think it's pretty useless for him to explain such basic truths as the difference in prices in different countries and why editing a couple of lines in a scss file can't cost 500 dollars.
As for the portfolio, this advice is always relevant. The only problem is that the TS portfolio I've seen is quite ordinary skills. I can at least make projects from his portfolio by spending just a little more time than he spent on them (although-who knows).

I understand when a person complains that he has issued a whole project of the level of a professional Studio (with heavy and time-consuming animations with unusual solutions and having at least some uniqueness) - then it's still okay. But just take and pull the psd on the site/make up 10 pages on the layout of figma and complain that you didn't get paid 20 thousand dollars for it BECAUSE YOU TRIED it's completely ridiculous. Usually people with 15 years of experience (like our TS) have a much stronger understanding of the market and are unlikely to have a stable medium-high income at their age and with such experience. Or even more - why not set up a Studio with your own skills? IT needs porfessionals and this is not a myth - but it is a requires for QUALIFIED and cool people.

[Findingnemo]

Freelancing websites reduces the inequality in their earnings no matter what region they are from because skills matter more for someone to earn not the country of origin.If you accept it or not but you have to accept the reality and survive with what you make.

[7788bitcoin]

People ask you  to manage/webmaster their project ,thinking that they are the only client and that doing webmaster work is included in price of project.
Programming / Design Business has become a very low pay biz and very stressful ...

You summarized the example of a world without restrictions, it will be competitive and anyone willing to do a job at a low wage wins the business or you need to have the reputation to complete the job with the price you are asking. I would like to see a free retail market like this and the end user wins all the time. If you are not willing to do the job someone else will be happily taking the job and that is what a competitive market looks like.

It's one of the most easiest thing, believe me. It's super easy to learn html/css, at least was for me but it isn't a thing that I am interested in.

The basic is always easy but to design a detailed responsive website with a simple and powerful UX and UI is not skill everyone possess. For that you need to have the skills and imagination rather than just html/css.

[MCobian]

I agree freelancing websites have broken standard payments for programming / design business, they don't understand very hard
to build big projects. So it was really stressful with an offer of only $ 100, and usually third world countries peoples receive such low pay.
It makes it difficult for us to get projects, because clients must choose the lowest price. But fortunately there are some clients who choose
based on the programmers' abilities, even though there are not many clients like that.

[Lorence.xD]

I agree freelancing websites have broken standard payments for programming / design business, they don't understand very hard
to build big projects. So it was really stressful with an offer of only $ 100, and usually third world countries peoples receive such low pay.
It makes it difficult for us to get projects, because clients must choose the lowest price. But fortunately there are some clients who choose
based on the programmers' abilities, even though there are not many clients like that.

The problem with the with companies is that they starve their employees and some of them see freelancing as a better option in utilizing their skills. Sure there are still companies that do not do it but they are outnumbered by the overwhelming presence of freelancers. If you were the employee and you are paid a minimum and you know that freelance has a greener pasture, will you still slave away with corporate life?

[Salauddin1994]

I think freelancing websites have killed the planning and development business because their skills are very low and there are not any employees within the client market there also are many employees who aren't ready to do as per the client's choice. as long as you're a freelancer but it'll not work if you're a freelancer but no client is hiring you then freelancing isn't for you during this age of data technology everything is moving forward.

[michellee]

I think freelancing websites have killed the planning and development business because their skills are very low and there are not any employees within the client market there also are many employees who aren't ready to do as per the client's choice. as long as you're a freelancer but it'll not work if you're a freelancer but no client is hiring you then freelancing isn't for you during this age of data technology everything is moving forward.

If you want to become a freelancer, you need to have skills in a specific field to convince your client that you can work for them. You can give your portfolio to them to see what you already did in the past, which can be a positive point for you. If you search for the website that accepts freelancers, you will find many clients who need help from the freelancer. You don't have to bother with the payment because as long as you can get trust from your client, you will get more clients from them, which means you can increase your payment.

[finaleshot2016]

I think freelancing websites have killed the planning and development business because their skills are very low and there are not any employees within the client market there also are many employees who aren't ready to do as per the client's choice. as long as you're a freelancer but it'll not work if you're a freelancer but no client is hiring you then freelancing isn't for you during this age of data technology everything is moving forward.

If you want to become a freelancer, you need to have skills in a specific field to convince your client that you can work for them. You can give your portfolio to them to see what you already did in the past, which can be a positive point for you. If you search for the website that accepts freelancers, you will find many clients who need help from the freelancer. You don't have to bother with the payment because as long as you can get trust from your client, you will get more clients from them, which means you can increase your payment.

Also, you need a good portfolio because it will convince your next customer or client. It's not just about skills, the customer also needs an assurance that will guarantee the quality work.

The portfolio that you have made will also serve as your ratings. It's just like the same process happening in Upwork, a freelance website. If you have a lot of projects and good ratings, money isn't a problem anymore.

[michellee]

I think freelancing websites have killed the planning and development business because their skills are very low and there are not any employees within the client market there also are many employees who aren't ready to do as per the client's choice. as long as you're a freelancer but it'll not work if you're a freelancer but no client is hiring you then freelancing isn't for you during this age of data technology everything is moving forward.

If you want to become a freelancer, you need to have skills in a specific field to convince your client that you can work for them. You can give your portfolio to them to see what you already did in the past, which can be a positive point for you. If you search for the website that accepts freelancers, you will find many clients who need help from the freelancer. You don't have to bother with the payment because as long as you can get trust from your client, you will get more clients from them, which means you can increase your payment.

Also, you need a good portfolio because it will convince your next customer or client. It's not just about skills, the customer also needs an assurance that will guarantee the quality work.

The portfolio that you have made will also serve as your ratings. It's just like the same process happening in Upwork, a freelance website. If you have a lot of projects and good ratings, money isn't a problem anymore.

Having a portfolio is something that freelancers must have because they can get more customers or clients with that. Working at Upwork can be a good idea, and that will be the same as if you try to search for the client at Fivers.
The important is how we can improve our skills and give more portfolios in our profile, so before the customer or client hires us, they will see what kind of work we did before. Sooner or later, our payment will increase too because many clients trust our work.

[crypticj]

I can agree about high fees on freelance sites but with others..
Yes, Asiats are cheap but did you see their work quality? No one will choose someone from India if he want good work.
And if you are doing great sites then people will be ready to pay extra. You just need to be good at that you are doing

[coolcoinz]

Then paypal or cryto exchange charges another 10% fee + withdraw fee etc

Exchanges that take 10% in fees? That's something new. Usually it's close to 2%.

And after you are left with 68 usd ,now you got to pay the tax man he takes another 10%-30% (depending on your country) out that 68 usd

You're talking like that's a fault of the site, or cryptocurrency. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't convert it to fiat and you'll have one less problem on your head.

Now you will be left with around 50 usd

So for 1 -2 day of work you get payed 50 usd

50 usd / 16 hours = 3.125 usd / hour

For european or north american standards  ...3.125 / hour is lower then even a cleaning toilets job salary ...

But at least you keep your hands clean and don't even have to leave home. Would you rather clean toilets for $5 per hour? $4-6 is a minimum wage in many EU countries.

[merchantofzeny]

I don't do web development (but considering training to do some freelance) but yes that is the case, all these businesses wanting a site would opt to pay for cheaper services from Asia (quality is a different matter of course). I think one option is, aside from improving your portfolio, is to find a niche.

Web developers are asking for huge amount of money for tiny html/css edits. Their prices aren't fair and now they blame freelancers from all over the world because Indian guy charges 20$ instead of 600$ and they are bad, ruining their "profitable" business.

Do you ever take into account the cost of living in the respective countries? Web devs living in the US/EU ask for considerable amounts because that's the only way they can live in their society where cost of living is very high, this without taking in account the fact that when a dev charges 600$, he doesn't get 600$ in his pockets, there is taxes and a shitload of other expenses; ofcourse they are going to call devs from countries where cost of living is low "bad" because they are breaking the market by charging peanuts for their service...

The same can be said for any industry, for example customer service. Processes/services would either get outsourced or automated if possible coz that's what businesses do, cut costs. I understand that it sucks that devs in US/EU wouldn't be able to afford to live on the rate that Asians charge but that can't be helped.

[Anyobsss]

Then paypal or cryto exchange charges another 10% fee + withdraw fee etc

Exchanges that take 10% in fees? That's something new. Usually it's close to 2%.

And after you are left with 68 usd ,now you got to pay the tax man he takes another 10%-30% (depending on your country) out that 68 usd

You're talking like that's a fault of the site, or cryptocurrency. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't convert it to fiat and you'll have one less problem on your head.

Now you will be left with around 50 usd

So for 1 -2 day of work you get payed 50 usd

50 usd / 16 hours = 3.125 usd / hour

For european or north american standards  ...3.125 / hour is lower then even a cleaning toilets job salary ...

But at least you keep your hands clean and don't even have to leave home. Would you rather clean toilets for $5 per hour? $4-6 is a minimum wage in many EU countries.

5$ per hour for cleaning toilet? in my country this is a huge amount lmao. The minimum wage of our country is 10 USD per day. No wonder, Asians like me will gladly accept low rates work from eu or American people because for us the low rate 50 USD said by OP is huge.

[smartcontracts100]

Then paypal or cryto exchange charges another 10% fee + withdraw fee etc

Exchanges that take 10% in fees? That's something new. Usually it's close to 2%.

And after you are left with 68 usd ,now you got to pay the tax man he takes another 10%-30% (depending on your country) out that 68 usd

You're talking like that's a fault of the site, or cryptocurrency. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't convert it to fiat and you'll have one less problem on your head.

Now you will be left with around 50 usd

So for 1 -2 day of work you get payed 50 usd

50 usd / 16 hours = 3.125 usd / hour

For european or north american standards  ...3.125 / hour is lower then even a cleaning toilets job salary ...

But at least you keep your hands clean and don't even have to leave home. Would you rather clean toilets for $5 per hour? $4-6 is a minimum wage in many EU countries.

5$ per hour for cleaning toilet? in my country this is a huge amount lmao. The minimum wage of our country is 10 USD per day. No wonder, Asians like me will gladly accept low rates work from eu or American people because for us the low rate 50 USD said by OP is huge.

You must charge more or ask your gov to increase your salaries ...

Here in Europe i could just simply use my portfolio and outsource to Asia ... Asian programmers will do all the work and i would  do what the rest do ,i would pay slave salary to asian people and i keep 90% and i do nothing ...

But that is unethical ... at the end of the day in life is not important how much money you made ... is how you lived ...

[Anyobsss]

~snip

You must charge more or ask your gov to increase your salaries ...

Here in Europe i could just simply use my portfolio and outsource to Asia ... Asian programmers will do all the work and i would  do what the rest do ,i would pay slave salary to asian people and i keep 90% and i do nothing ...

But that is unethical ... at the end of the day in life is not important how much money you made ... is how you lived ...

Labor groups has proposed wage increase but our government is ignoring it.

you might see it that it is unethical but for Asian who accepts low rates especially from third world countries see it as a blessing.

[Silberman]

Upwork use to be good but they take 20% and people demand you to just 2 hours of hoops before they will hire you it's horrible. What an abuse. 

Someone needs to make a reasonable platform with 3 to 4% with little waste of time maybe short test project and they like you they give you more not waste 2 hours to give you 40 Euros of work that takes you a day to finish then they want 20 fixes.

Websites like Upwork have a monopoly of the market and they know it, this is why they can exploit their workers for 20% of their pay and most just keep silent about the abuse because they want to keep the chance of making money on the platform but the truth is that is quite difficult, not only clients ask you to do something for cheap for the most part they do not even know what they want so it is almost impossible to make an effective proposal to try to gain the job.

[adzino]

Those sites have to take fees. They have to pay those operational costs from somewhere. And again, they have employers too who the have to pay! Secondly, they are arranging a deal between you and your client. They have made it easier for you to get work. Imagine how hard would it be for freelancers to look for people to employ them. They literally would have to be running around the internet looking for work. So i guess paying a premium fee of 10%-15% is totally worth it.
About Asians underbidding you. The issue is gone if you have a good reputation and a review. If you have strong and better reviews from your previous clients, chances are people will hire you for a premium price.

[milewilda]

Upwork use to be good but they take 20% and people demand you to just 2 hours of hoops before they will hire you it's horrible. What an abuse. 

Someone needs to make a reasonable platform with 3 to 4% with little waste of time maybe short test project and they like you they give you more not waste 2 hours to give you 40 Euros of work that takes you a day to finish then they want 20 fixes.

Websites like Upwork have a monopoly of the market and they know it, this is why they can exploit their workers for 20% of their pay and most just keep silent about the abuse because they want to keep the chance of making money on the platform but the truth is that is quite difficult, not only clients ask you to do something for cheap for the most part they do not even know what they want so it is almost impossible to make an effective proposal to try to gain the job.

You wont really have any choice but to deal with it and you're right that people would just deal with those deductions rather than losing up their job or spot, knowing that getting some freelance jobs online is really difficult due to competition thats why they do just swallow their pride and just accept into their pay even though they do know that deductions are too much.Do they had that options left? none. So they'll stay on what it is.
Actually this doesnt only killed design and dev business but on other skill-set as well.Is there any other way? theres none unless if there are freelancing platform would offer much more lower but as said that
majority of them are on monopoly side of things then you can expect these numbers.