Nano Ledger S Seed and Nano Ledger S Recovery

[jerry0]

HCP... yes that word that i tried to write down is in that list of words.  But when i type the first two letters of that word, it automatically gives me suggestions of the word and when i right click it... it doesn't get to that word. 

[jerry0]

Also im typing my words now.  I notice after i type like the first two letters of each word, you see words appear and then you right button click it until you find it?  I thought you had to manually type each letter of each word?  Can anyone here confirm this is how it is?  I thought you had to manually type each letter of each word in the whole seed?

They did that to speed up the recovery process. Saves a LOT of clicking

Okay im freaked out right now.  As im typing in my seed for all the words, as i went halfway or so, one of the words i wrote down the first two letter, it does not show the exact word for that number.

Does this mean my seed is incorrect?  I am pretty sure i wrote it correctly and even wrote it twice.  

Have you checked if that word is in the BIP39 wordlist? Refer: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt

If it isn't, you wrote the word down incorrectly.

Can you keep typing in letters? or can you only select words at this point?

It seemed to only select words at that point.  Is there a way to keep typing in letters?  Everytime i type like two letters, it would give me recommended words... then i would right click it until i see the word and then click on it.  Sometimes when i type in two letters, only that word appears.


The thing is this word is like one of the tenth word in my seed.  So i need to enter all my seed words again to get there?  Or can i try to type my tenth word seed on the first word just for it to appear?


Or do you recommend me to type all the words again and then once i get there, find a way to type the entire word?

[jerry0]

I tried to type my tenth word as my first word so i don't need to type all the words before that.  But same thing.  Once i type in the second letter, it automatically gives me recommended words and i right click it and that word doesn't show up.  But that word is in the bips page with all those words.


No one here has had this issue?  There doesn't to be a way to not allow that recommended word and just manually type each word out.

[jerry0]

Anyone here had this issue?  Why does after i type in my second letter, it always automatically gives me a list of words to choose from?  But it doesn't show the word for it?  But other words before this, it showed it correctly?  That word is in the bip list that HCP posted so I not wrote the wrong word.

[HCP]

I have just now reset my device to test this, because I haven't had to restore it in a while, and the word entry process is indeed different from what I remember...

However, I just start entering letters, and it generally seems to get to the 2nd or 3rd letter before giving me the word list to scroll through to find the word I want. I did not have any issues with words not showing up.

Some of them had 5 or 6 options that I had to scroll through to find the actual word I wanted to enter, but they were all there.


Also, for the love of bitcoin... STOP multiposting! just edit your previous post if you need to add something!

[jerry0]

Okay but you say the word does show up for you with those options.  But that word doesn't show up for me.  But how would this be possible though since that word is an actual word on the bip list?

[jerry0]

Okay I will do that from now on. 


Has anyone here had this issue?  I am so freaked out right now.  But why is it that word doesn't appear?  Again this word is somewhere in the middle of my seed as i type in the first two letters, it shows a few word choices to choose from but that word doesn't show up.  All the words before that, had no issue at all. 


This doesn't make sense because if someone was trying to guess their seed or brute force or whatever, shouldn't there be an option to put any of that whole word list in like the tenth word of the seed?  What I did notice was for example after you type in the first letter, the second letter... its not like they give you the entire alphabet, they give you much less letters to choose from.  Example if your first letter of your seed starts with the letter T, well you can't select say W as the second letter at all.  Did the previous update allowed you to even type in words that are not words?  Example imagine you typing in a seed and put one of your words as tvonoimm which is not a word even.  Seems like with this, they only give you the second letter choices where it actually makes up a real word in the bip list?

[HCP]

What I did notice was for example after you type in the first letter, the second letter... its not like they give you the entire alphabet, they give you much less letters to choose from.  Example if your first letter of your seed starts with the letter T, well you can't select say W as the second letter at all.  Did the previous update allowed you to even type in words that are not words?  Example imagine you typing in a seed and put one of your words as tvonoimm which is not a word even.  Seems like with this, they only give you the second letter choices where it actually makes up a real word in the bip list?

Correct... again, it is an effort to speed up the recovery phrase entry process (and to prevent entering incorrect words).


Note to everyone else... I've been assisting jerry0 in PM, and it turns out he was entering the word incorrectly, which is why it was not showing the correct word in the list of word to choose from

[jerry0]

Okay the seed thing... like HCP said.. I typed that seed word incorrectly.  The seed does work as it shows your device is in use.


But when i do this, how do i make sure the seed i entered was the correct seed of my old nano ledger s?  The seed that i had... i am pretty close to positive that is the correct seed for it.  I do have two more set of seeds that i wrote down a while back when i got the old nano ledger s years ago, it was me creating a seed, wiping it, creating a seed and then wiping it.  Then the third time was when i wrote down the seed as that is my seed for my old nano ledger s.



After i typed the seed in the new nano ledger s, it showed device is in use.  Then when i went to accounts, it shows the correct amount of btc and bch i have but how do i know its directly linked to my current new nano ledger s?  Because when i click on manager, bitcoin and bitcoin cash was not installed.  I just installed both of these apps right now.  But i still need to click add account for both of these?  I have three wallets installed on ledger live, bitcoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold... but i have no bitcoin gold.  In my old nano ledger s, i recalled adding bitcoin, bch and bitcoin gold wallets... but i only had btc and bch.


So right now i need to add account for both bitcoin and bitcoin cash in the manager - app catalog?


Because what i see in accounts right now, it still shows the same amount of btc and bch as it was before i did the restore recovery phrase.


But how do i know for sure what is showing in my accounts is linked with my nano ledger s right now?  Do i need to click add account for both btc and bitcoin cash in the app catalog page?  So if i do this, then my accounts page will show... what?


It already shows bitcoin gold - 0   bitcoin - x amount   bitcoin cash - x amount



Do i need to click add account?  And if so, will it look the same as above or would it add an additional two accounts and basically show the same amount of btc and bch assuming my old seed was the old nano ledger s seed?

[jerry0]

When i went to install bitcoin and bitcoin cash app.  Then i went to add accounts, it shows




When i add account for bitcoin...


It shows



Check mark for crypto asset - check mark for device - Accounts -




                                            Select all (2)

Bitcoin 1 (native segwit)   with a check mark

Bitcoin  2 (segwit)           no check mark




Accounts already in portfolio (1)


Bitcoin 1  (segwit)       x amount of btc     


The words above are like blurred in a way where you can't click on it but you can clearly see it





So do i change the name of the


Bitcoin 1 (native segwit)?



Do i just leave it as is and just lick on Add account?


Seems like the only changes i can make here is check either of the boxes or both... and change the name of Bitcoin 1 (native segwit).



I just clicked add acount.


Now there is a new account that show Bitcoin 1 (native segwit) but it shows 0 btc?


Did i make a mistake here?

[jerry0]

Right now in my accounts, this is what it shows



Bitcoin 1 (Native segwit)            bitcoin gold (segwit)            bitcoin cash 1         bitcoin 1 (segwit)
  

0 btc                                         0 btc                                 x btc cash               x bitcoin





Previously before I added the bitcoin account it only showed bitcoin gold, cash and bitcoin 1 and the amounts for those 3 accounts which was correct.



But when i installed bitcoin app on my new nano ledger s... then Add account, now it shows 0 btc for bitcoin 1 (native segwit)  Like whenever i opened my ledger live to check my accounts even when my old nano ledger s stopped working, it showed the correct amount.



Is the mistake here because i clicked on native segwit as oppose to checking bitcoin 2 segwit instead?


Is that why it doesn't show the exact amount of btc i have?  Then again, i did not delete my ledger live accounts before this.  


I know when you restore ledger live or its your first time using ledger live, you need to install apps on your nano ledger s and add accounts.  But i still need to add accounts even I never deleted my ledger live?


Someone who has restored their nano ledger s while still having their ledger live... can tell me whats wrong here?  




Is this correct or not?  Because how do i know the correct amount of btc and bch I have in bitcoin cash 1 and bitcoin 1 (segwit) which is the correct amount i have in my old nano ledger s... is the exact seed with my new nano ledger s now?

[HCP]

Ledger Live splits out all the address types into different accounts...

So there could potentially be a "Legacy" account (with 1-type addresses if you have been using it prior to segwit)... "Nested SegWit" ("3-type" addresses, which Ledger Live just calls "SegWit") and/or "Native Segwit" ("bc1" addresses).

If the seed wasn't the same as your old one, then it would have found "different" Legacy/Nested accounts... given it only attempted to add the "Native SegWit", then the others are likely OK... If you want to double check, simply delete all the accounts in Ledger Live, then try to re-add them... It'll rescan everything for you.

[jerry0]

Hey hcp thanks for the reply.  I just recalled back when i used nano ledger years ago, it asked me to create either legacy or segwit.  Im pretty close to positive years ago i chosed segwit because you or someone else mentioned segwit because cheaper in fees to send.  But it should be segwit i thought since well.. look at the name of the bitcoin segwit 1 as the name i put right?


What confuses me is after i type in the seed... then install both btc and bch apps in my nano ledger s... why would i need to click on add account for each if they accounts are already there in ledger live since i didn't touch it?  Or that is specifically for my old broken nano ledger s?   


Well after i typed in add account, it only gave me those two options... to either check both or check just one of them.  I just didn't touch anything and left it as is and just had it first one checked... native segwit 1... but when i checked my accounts after that, i saw that native segwit 1 and showing 0 btc.  I had thought it would match the same btc i have in bitcoin segwit 1.  Then again i thought... well native segwit and segwit can't be the same.  And it wouldn't make sense having the btc amount shown the same amount in both accounts right?  So maybe i should have unchecked the native segwit 1 and checked the second option which was called bitcoin segwit 2?  It made sense why it would be 2 since i already have the original bitcoin segwit 1 name already right?  I remembered when I clicked add, it showed like a quick pop up of like I used the same account name already.  But if i clicked on bitcoin segwit 2, how many btc would be shown there for the account?  I assume zero?  Or would it be same as bitcoin segwit 1?


The thing that confuses me here is the instructions tell you after you put in seed, to install the apps on your nano ledger and add accounts.  Are they assuming ppl who are restoring their nano ledger s deleted their entire ledger live or something? 


Also is the coins showing for my bch and bitcoin segwit 1, those refer to the coins that are in those addresses right and not my old broken nano ledger s?  If that is the case, why would i need to add accounts if I didnt touch the ledger live?


Also because it shows the amount of bch and btc in those wallets ever since my old nano ledger s broke, that means those coins are still in my account right?  I never wrote my seed anywhere else besides the paper.  Then again when you restore you seed in a new device, arent those coins still in the same btc and bch addresses and not moved to a different address?


You mentioned to me i could delete all my accounts now and re add them.  But is that one hundred percent safe?  I thought... maybe try to send a tiny amount of btc to an electrum address?  Or attempt to send it to an old electrum address?  Because if my wallet has no btc, then it wouldn't even show the btc address i could send to and confirm on my nano ledger s?  Or it still does... but when you click send, it will not work because i have no btc in it?


Would love if anyone else have feedback on this as well. 

[jerry0]

One other thing to add.  When I used electrum and had my btc there... I am pretty sure it was a legacy account in electrum... though not sure.  I then sent the btc to nano ledger s and then recalled i created a segwit address for nano ledger s, this was years ago though.

[joniboini]

Please re-read HCP reply, segwit (which sometimes means nested segwit) and native segwit are different. That's probably why your account are showing different balance. Don't get confused with the naming and take a look at the address instead.

[jerry0]

I am pretty sure i never used a btc address with an address that started with ("bc1" addresses)


I am pretty certain any btc address i sent to or receive started with "3-type" addresses.  So that makes sense that the native segwit shows 0 btc then right?


HCP, you use segwit or legacy with your nano ledger s?  Also i recalled you also had btc in electrum before you sent it all to nano ledger s a while back right?


HCP, well it auto check boxed the native segwit option... but i had the option to actually check both... or the other one. 


The thing I still don't get is why do we need to add accounts if we still have ledger live in the computer etc.


But joniboini, this does sound like my coins are in the wallet right?  Is the two methods i listed... the ways to check if i have the coins in my new nano ledger s?  By sending a tiny amount of btc from my nano ledger s and see if it goes through sending to an old electrum address of mine>  Or attempt to send tiny amount of btc from new nano ledger s to electrum where if i try to send the amount, it would show the address confirmation of yes i like to send?  But does it even show that message if you have no btc in your wallet though?  I assume not because it wouldn't even hit that are you sure you want to send the tiny amount of btc to it if you dont even have that tiny amount of btc to send?

[HCP]

If you never used "bc1" (aka Native SegWit) addresses... then it stands to reason that your "Native SegWit" account will be 0 BTC

You don't need to add accounts, if you're just restoring the device and already had Ledger Live setup and have been using it previously with a device that was using the same seed etc... Everything should "just work".

[Lucius]

Talking about tempering the device. How it works? @Lucius

If someone really can manipulate a device and it gives the same seed after resetting then there is something to worry about it. The whole hardware wallet industry will be at question I guess.

Let’s say someone intercepts a shipment and modifies the device by adding an additional component - it is just one of the possible attack vectors to consider. But if someone were to do something like this then they would probably be targeting a specific target (someone they know has great value in crypto).

We don't need to worry about this becoming a global problem, the much bigger danger for crypto is the users themselves - and even those who use hardware wallets.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005321449-Check-hardware-integrity

Also, for the love of bitcoin... STOP multiposting! just edit your previous post if you need to add something!

jerry0, how about you really start reading what others are writing to you?  Don't know what's going on in your head, but this problem of yours is something most would solve in 10 minutes - especially after you've been given very clear instructions.

[o_e_l_e_o]

What confuses me is after i type in the seed... then install both btc and bch apps in my nano ledger s... why would i need to click on add account for each if they accounts are already there in ledger live since i didn't touch it?  Or that is specifically for my old broken nano ledger s?

Your Ledger Live will show whatever accounts have previously been set up on it, regardless of what hardware device is or is not connected to it. What shows up in Ledger Live is no necessarily a reflection of the device which it is currently connected to.

Also because it shows the amount of bch and btc in those wallets ever since my old nano ledger s broke, that means those coins are still in my account right?

The coins were never in the account on Ledger Live to begin with. Ledger Live is simply showing you a representation of whatever hardware device was connected when you set those accounts up, which in this case is your old Nano S.

Then again when you restore you seed in a new device, arent those coins still in the same btc and bch addresses and not moved to a different address?

Correct. The coins never move.

You mentioned to me i could delete all my accounts now and re add them.  But is that one hundred percent safe?

It isn't dangerous because your coins are not in the accounts. You need the correct seed to access and spend your coins. If you have the correct seed, you can spend them regardless of whether the old accounts are there or not. If you do not have the correct seed, then having the old accounts still visible changes nothing.

If it were me, I would just wipe everything from Ledger Live to avoid any confusion and set up your accounts again using your new device.

[jerry0]

If you never used "bc1" (aka Native SegWit) addresses... then it stands to reason that your "Native SegWit" account will be 0 BTC

You don't need to add accounts, if you're just restoring the device and already had Ledger Live setup and have been using it previously with a device that was using the same seed etc... Everything should "just work".

Yea i am close to positive i never used a bc1 address ever.  But why would it even have that autochecked for me then when i click add account?


So when you did the passphrase restore yesterday, you had to install btc app on your nano ledger s.  I assume you have other coins as well so you added those apps as well right?  Or you only have btc, bch in your nano ledger s?  I only installed btc and bch app in my nano ledger yesterday using ledger live and clicking install. 


But did you click add accounts with btc and any other accounts yesterday?  Or all you did was just install the apps and thats it since you had ledger live already?


In my old nano ledger s, the apps i installed was btc, bch and bitcoin gold... but i had no bitcoin gold.. just installed the app anyways.


Yesterday i just installed btc and bch apps but then when i click add account for btc... that is when the confusion started with the bc1.


You say there is no need to add accounts if im just restoring the device and had already ledger live set up.  Then why would the instructions say do this?  Are they assuming people who are restoring their passphrase with nano ledger s... they removed ledger live from their computer or something?  Because assuming someone wanted to restore their seed with their nano ledger s... it's it more common that they still have their ledger live on their computer?