Blockstream's new Aqua Wallet

[mk4]

So Blockstream just recently released their new Aqua Wallet, that apparently supports Bitcoin and "all assets issued on the Liquid Network". And apparently, you can buy bitcoin through the Aqua app(through Apple pay) with no KYC required. Quite intriguing, so I downloaded the app with plans of testing this specific functionality.

Aaaand.. yea.. not available in my jurisdiction. In hindsight, I should've expected this.

Has anyone tried this out yet? Is this even legal? Selling bitcoin without AML/KYC?

If anyone wants to try it out: https://blockstream.com/aqua/

Unfortunately it's only available on iOS. And unfortunately, the fees are like WTF. Tried buying $1 of bitcoin and it was asking me for like $1.89($.55 network fee). I'd rather buy from bitcoin ATMs than purchase through this lmao.

Also, idk why they didn't just bundle these features up with the Blockstream Green Wallet instead.

Some screenshots:

[TryNinja]

Unfortunately it's only available on iOS. And unfortunately, the fees are like WTF. Tried buying $1 of bitcoin and it was asking me for like $1.89($.55 network fee). I'd rather buy from bitcoin ATMs than purchase through this lmao.

This sounds pretty obvious. You are trying to buy $1 of BTC, of couse most of it will be fees. Try buying $100 and you will pay "only" $4.2 on fees. That's 4.2% (it's actually 4% + 30c according to their FAQ), which is acceptable when we talk about buying crypto with a credit card. The lowest I have seen is Crypto.com with 3.5%, though they are waiving this fee for a limited amount of time. Most ATMs charge more than 20% or even 30%.

What isn't accepted in your jurisdiction isn't Aqua's service, but Apple Pay, which they use as a processor. It's on the alert you showed up ("cannot be used with Apple Pay").

[mk4]

This sounds pretty obvious. You are trying to buy $1 of BTC, of couse most of it will be fees. Try buying $100 and you will pay "only" $4.2 on fees. That's 4.2% (it's actually 4% + 30c according to their FAQ), which is acceptable when we talk about buying crypto with a credit card. The lowest I have seen is Crypto.com with 3.5%, though they are waiving this fee for a limited amount of time. Most ATMs charge more than 20% or even 30%.

Completely aware of the fees. But still, it's their "transaction fee"(not the network fee), plus their exchange rate premium(which seems to be like $350 above current prices). Seems to still be quite expensive. But then again, I really don't use custodial services such as Crypto.com to buy bitcoin so there's that. 🤷‍♂️

[o_e_l_e_o]

The launch video on the link above shows a "Wrye Inc" fee of $1.28 and a "Network" fee of $0.56 on a $25 purchase, so 4% + $0.30 + a presumably variable network fee depending on the mempool seems like the total fee. However, where are they getting the exchange rate of $11,057 from? That's a $400 mark up, which is a further almost 4% "hidden" fee. So all in your total fee is going to work out to around 8%.

I've never used in-app buying/selling features like this, so I don't know what the "going rate" is, but that seems pretty high to me, no?

Also, idk why they didn't just bundle these features up with the Blockstream Green Wallet instead.

https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/1310099706647851009
https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/1310208264521515008

Looks like Aqua is being targeted more towards casual users, with Green being targeted towards more advanced users with things like multi-sig, Tor, and hardware wallets.

[TryNinja]

Completely aware of the network fees as I've mentioned the $.55 network fee. But still, it's their "transaction fee"(not the network fee), plus their exchange rate(which seems to be like $350 above current prices). Seems to still be quite expensive. But then again, I really don't use custodial services such as Crypto.com to buy bitcoin so there's that.

They need to make money somewhere.

However, you are right about their exchange rate. It's $11,098 (Aqua) vs $10,720 (Preev). A difference of around 3.4% + their 4% for a total of ~7% (without the network fee). Expensive, but still a lot cheaper than any ATM.

There are far better options if you want to buy BTC with a CC, like Crypto.com, which I already mentioned, where you pay a good rate ($10,782 right now) and there is 0% fee.

[mk4]

However, where are they getting the exchange rate of $11,057 from? That's a $400 mark up, which is a further almost 4% "hidden" fee. So all in your total fee is going to work out to around 8%.

However, you are right about their exchange rate. It's $11,098 (Aqua) vs $10,720 (Preev). A difference of around 3.4% + their 4% for a total of ~7% (without the network fee). Expensive, but still a lot cheaper than any ATM.

Yeap. That was definitely the shocking part.

But anywayyy, the premiums surely suck, but what I'm more surprised about is the no KYC part. I know, it's not like you're totally private as you're paying through Apple Pay(whereas Apple has your personal information), but still. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here on how they're able to run this service legally and in a regulated manner.

And while we're at it, has anyone here actually tried Liquid?

[squatter]

Also, idk why they didn't just bundle these features up with the Blockstream Green Wallet instead.

https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/1310099706647851009
https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/1310208264521515008

Looks like Aqua is being targeted more towards casual users, with Green being targeted towards more advanced users with things like multi-sig, Tor, and hardware wallets.

Thanks for the explanation. I had the same thought as mk4 -- splitting their user base and brand seems like an odd choice.

Buy bitcoin and Liquid Bitcoin right from the AQUA app, no documents required.

I wonder how long that will last and what the limits or thresholds are. Wyre does cover ID verification in their terms, though it only applies to registered users. I just hope no situations arise where someone gets their bank card debited and then Wyre pulls some KYC shenanigans.

I just tested it and you can't buy more than $1,000 at a time through Aqua. I also tried from both US and European IP addresses and was restricted to ApplePay, which has its own ID verification thresholds.

So all in your total fee is going to work out to around 8%.

That's what I'm getting too, whether you buy $100 or $1,000. I recall that's what Bitstamp was charging when they first integrated credit card buys, though they've since lowered those fees to 5%.

[leea-1334]

Damn,,, not available for me because I cannot Apple:( My question is why are they building something like this for Apple when they know most of us only use cheaper Android? I get it, but why not two versions. Looks cool and Blockstream is cool but I did not expect they would just leave out their biggest customer base by doing iOS.

[stompix]

But anywayyy, the premiums surely suck, but what I'm more surprised about is the no KYC part. I know, it's not like you're totally private as you're paying through Apple Pay(whereas Apple has your personal information), but still. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here on how they're able to run this service legally and in a regulated manner.

I've been reading through all their ToS and seems like they are claiming they are not offering any kind of transactions nor are they accepting any kind of payment, all of that is being done through their third-party provider, in this case, Wyre and although fro most of the clients probably the will be no KYCthey do reserve the right to block any of our exchange, and besides, you're already KYCd when you use your card.  Probably I'll try the wallet this weekend, I like to keep my iPhone as clean as possible since it's also my work smartphone, maybe even throw a few bits in there but I seriously doubt I will ever use the exchange service. The rates are not that bad for larger amounts compared to other so-called instant exchanges but still not attractive. Not really familiar with all this liquid stuff, so, probably it's time to do a little research.

Damn,,, not available for me because I cannot Apple:( My question is why are they building something like this for Apple when they know most of us only use cheaper Android?

Probably because they haven't managed to get a deal with a 3rd party for Gpay?

[figmentofmyass]

Damn,,, not available for me because I cannot Apple:( My question is why are they building something like this for Apple when they know most of us only use cheaper Android? I get it, but why not two versions. Looks cool and Blockstream is cool but I did not expect they would just leave out their biggest customer base by doing iOS.

they aren't leaving you out. the android app just hasn't been released yet. from their press release:

Blockstream Green supports all major operating systems, while AQUA will be mobile-only—launched for iOS today, with android to follow.

And while we're at it, has anyone here actually tried Liquid?

bitfinex is the only exchange i use that supports it, so i never got around to trying it---didn't have anywhere to send L-BTC. i think it's mostly useful for arbitrage traders. i guess it could also be a cheap way for traders to remove their assets from the exchange every day.