Trump Paid Just $750 taxes in 2016 and 2017 !

[Spendulus]

Will that be enough to make voters feel disappointed with Trump? Or will the fact that Biden is the one who would replace him as President be enough to scare voters to keep Trump in power?

It really depends on the tax issues behind it. I read somewhere that Trump gave up all the control on his companies when becoming president so that there wouldn't be any conflict of interest. So if he doesn't have any control over the money and all returns are reinvested he might not have to pay taxes on them. And also some losses from the past can be matched against current earnings. Tax law is crazy complicated. Just look at Amazon almost paying no taxes in Europe, and still people buy as crazy on Amazon. Tax evasion is viewed not as a hard criminal activity in many countries.

But ORANGEMANBAD!!!!

[1714924527]

1714924527

[philipma1957]

Here are the top 6 highly damaging allegations:  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/27/new-york-times-trump-tax-returns-key-findings



...


A long audit – with potentially hefty costs
Trump is involved in a decade-long audit with the Internal Revenue Service over a $72.9m tax refund he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. A ruling against him could cost him more than $100m, the Times reported.

It added: “In 2011, the IRS began an audit reviewing the legitimacy of the refund. Almost a decade later, the case remains unresolved, for unknown reasons, and could ultimately end up in federal court, where it could become a matter of public record.”


...

Trump has a big bill to pay
The newspaper also reported that Trump is facing a major financial bill, as within the next four years, hundreds of millions of dollars in loans will come due. The paper said Trump is personally responsible for many of those obligations.

The paper reported: “In the 1990s, Mr Trump nearly ruined himself by personally guaranteeing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, and he has since said that he regretted doing so. But he has taken the same step again, his tax records show. He appears to be responsible for loans totaling $421m, most of which is coming due within four years.”

In a blunt summary of the problem, the Times speculated: “Should he win re-election, his lenders could be placed in the unprecedented position of weighing whether to foreclose on a sitting president.”

...

so who does he owe the money 💵 to?

[squatz1]

...How could a man with over $400 million in personal debt to unnamed creditors...

It'd be more meaningful to ask a question like... "What's the debt to equity ratio?"

Oh, wait...

That's way, way too complicated.

It's something a first year college business student might ask. We shouldn't expect that from you, right?

This is TOTALLY the line of thinking that I'm going down here. That's NOT something you'd find on a personal income return, but that's not something that already hate Trump are going to care much about. That's something you'd find on business returns, and I highly doubt we're going to see another leak of the massive amount of businesses that the Trumps use for all of their properties. AND NO it is not WEIRD that they have many companies under them, that's something that you do when you own so many large value businesses / properties -- you want them all separated and insulated from one another in the event of a lawsuit.

Have ya seen Twitter recently?

[Spendulus]

....
so who does he owe the money 💵 to?

Interesting question, because typically, you'd have no right to know such a thing.

But now, Trump is POTUS. I can see how people would want to know that he was not beholden to foreign powers or agents of them. Russian oligarchs would be a good example.

Typically commercial real estate loans are for a seven year period and are then renegotiated.

But there are many foreign countries that do not allow non-citizens to own property, and so some form of deal must be made with locals to do something like build a hotel.

On becoming POTUS, Trump set the properties aside I believe into a trust, because of exactly these sorts of concerns.

[JollyGood]

I think it was not just brainless dudes that voted for Trump, there were plenty of business minded people too because would benefit from tax cuts. Let us not forget it was not just the far-right it was also centre-right as well as alienated and disaffected voters too that put Trump in the White House. Another important factor was people did not trust Hillary Clinton even though she won the popular vote she lost out on the electoral college because she and the Democrats took a victory for granted.

This time against Biden who does not look like he can string a few consecutive coherent sentences together, it looks like Trump will get re-elected but thanks to his tax avoidance revelations in the New York Times he might face legal issues.

Jeffrey like this!
It is just another easy thing Mr 0range, aka I can do anything, used to do to make America GREAT again. It requires tremendous efforts, genuineness and a smart guy to accomplish it better than everyone else. Can't you see that? He is awesome, he will save us from ByeDon...
Crappy crap, brainless dudes will vote for him even if he was nominated as a king.
Worst scenario is Pince pardoning him for all his thousands "mistakes" when he step down after his shameful defeat.

[coins4commies]

You don't automatically owe taxes just because you are rich.  We have income taxes but Trump has no income so why would he pay taxes?  He's worth billions largely due to real estate assets for which he pays property taxes.  He wouldn't pay income taxes on that unless he sold it and cashed out. 

Its like the whole country discovered how our tax code works overnight.  It was only 6 months ago the democrats were wholeheartedly rejecting a wealth tax.  Now they are suddenly surprised 45 doesn't voluntarily pay one. 

[Spendulus]

You don't automatically owe taxes just because you are rich.  We have income taxes but Trump has no income so why would he pay taxes?  He's worth billions largely due to real estate assets for which he pays property taxes.  He wouldn't pay income taxes on that unless he sold it and cashed out.  

Its like the whole country discovered how our tax code works overnight.  It was only 6 months ago the democrats were wholeheartedly rejecting a wealth tax.  Now they are suddenly surprised 45 doesn't voluntarily pay one.  

This issue reminds me of one aspect of the Affordable Care Act.

When Demos had the power they passed that with a slim majority using a budget trick.

But did it apply to them? Oh, no. Of course not. All of Congress and the Senate have their own health care plans.

And tax law? It's for the little guys like us. Not them.

[Cratoon]

The man with the best tax lawyers... What did you expect?

[Spendulus]

The man with the best tax lawyers... What did you expect?

Actually, the US tax collection system works very well, compared to those in many countries of the work.

I don't know if Trump's business affairs are largely or partly in matters that are subject to different interpretations of tax law.

Suppose that was the case, then it would be totally legitimate and expected to take one stand and expect the IRS to take another, and then to settle up somewhere down the line.

Regardless, it's way different that getting taxed on a salary. However, on that dimension it's Trump that reformed the tax code two years ago, making it much fairer and eliminating a lot of loopholes. Almost everyone pays substantially less than before those changes.

[squatz1]

....
so who does he owe the money 💵 to?

Interesting question, because typically, you'd have no right to know such a thing.

But now, Trump is POTUS. I can see how people would want to know that he was not beholden to foreign powers or agents of them. Russian oligarchs would be a good example.

Typically commercial real estate loans are for a seven year period and are then renegotiated.

But there are many foreign countries that do not allow non-citizens to own property, and so some form of deal must be made with locals to do something like build a hotel.

On becoming POTUS, Trump set the properties aside I believe into a trust, because of exactly these sorts of concerns.

Hm. I think his assets were put into a trust, but it was not a blind trust that he has no control over, it is a revocable trust that he can pull back at any point. Not saying that a guy worth a few billion should just hand over his assets to someone else -- as that'd be asking for a lot, just clarifying that his children now run the day to day operations of the company which would mean that he is very likely still at the helm.

We've never had a president who owns these sorts of assets. Most before this had large stock holdings, which are very easy to just put into a blind trust and have someone manage them. Real estate is totally a different ball game.

[TwitchySeal]

....
so who does he owe the money 💵 to?

Interesting question, because typically, you'd have no right to know such a thing.

But now, Trump is POTUS. I can see how people would want to know that he was not beholden to foreign powers or agents of them. Russian oligarchs would be a good example.

Typically commercial real estate loans are for a seven year period and are then renegotiated.

But there are many foreign countries that do not allow non-citizens to own property, and so some form of deal must be made with locals to do something like build a hotel.

On becoming POTUS, Trump set the properties aside I believe into a trust, because of exactly these sorts of concerns.

I think he said he was going to put them in a blind trust, but then handled the whole thing the same way he handles his taxes.  He put Don Jr. and Eric in charge and promised not to tell them what to do, and left himself access to all the money like normal.

[Spendulus]

....
so who does he owe the money 💵 to?

Interesting question, because typically, you'd have no right to know such a thing.

But now, Trump is POTUS. I can see how people would want to know that he was not beholden to foreign powers or agents of them. Russian oligarchs would be a good example.

Typically commercial real estate loans are for a seven year period and are then renegotiated.

But there are many foreign countries that do not allow non-citizens to own property, and so some form of deal must be made with locals to do something like build a hotel.

On becoming POTUS, Trump set the properties aside I believe into a trust, because of exactly these sorts of concerns.

Hm. I think his assets were put into a trust, but it was not a blind trust that he has no control over, it is a revocable trust that he can pull back at any point. Not saying that a guy worth a few billion should just hand over his assets to someone else -- as that'd be asking for a lot, just clarifying that his children now run the day to day operations of the company which would mean that he is very likely still at the helm.

We've never had a president who owns these sorts of assets. Most before this had large stock holdings, which are very easy to just put into a blind trust and have someone manage them. Real estate is totally a different ball game.

Sounds basically okay.

But that's my point of view, and I did vote for him. People talked about those issues in 2016, of course. They are no different today, so I would wager that those who voted for him before, or who did not but view him favorably now, will not have their minds changed by being reminded of this issue.

Of course, these issues were not issues when the Demos ran John Kerry for president. His wealth has been variously estimated, ranging from around $165 million to as high as $3.2 billion

[squatz1]

....
so who does he owe the money 💵 to?

Interesting question, because typically, you'd have no right to know such a thing.

But now, Trump is POTUS. I can see how people would want to know that he was not beholden to foreign powers or agents of them. Russian oligarchs would be a good example.

Typically commercial real estate loans are for a seven year period and are then renegotiated.

But there are many foreign countries that do not allow non-citizens to own property, and so some form of deal must be made with locals to do something like build a hotel.

On becoming POTUS, Trump set the properties aside I believe into a trust, because of exactly these sorts of concerns.

Hm. I think his assets were put into a trust, but it was not a blind trust that he has no control over, it is a revocable trust that he can pull back at any point. Not saying that a guy worth a few billion should just hand over his assets to someone else -- as that'd be asking for a lot, just clarifying that his children now run the day to day operations of the company which would mean that he is very likely still at the helm.

We've never had a president who owns these sorts of assets. Most before this had large stock holdings, which are very easy to just put into a blind trust and have someone manage them. Real estate is totally a different ball game.

Sounds basically okay.

But that's my point of view, and I did vote for him. People talked about those issues in 2016, of course. They are no different today, so I would wager that those who voted for him before, or who did not but view him favorably now, will not have their minds changed by being reminded of this issue.

Of course, these issues were not issues when the Demos ran John Kerry for president. His wealth has been variously estimated, ranging from around $165 million to as high as $3.2 billion

Oh yeah I'm not saying there's something WRONG with using a revocable trust where you still more or less have control of the assets. That was me just clarifying, as when most people think 'trust' they think of something that is irrevocable and can't be controlled by themselves at the moment. That wouldn't be the case for someone who's children are now in charge of the company.

But you're right, I don't think anyone's mind will be changed by this in regards to people who were crazy happy to vote for him in 2016. May hurt some short term poll numbers in regards to moderates, but we'll see what the outlook looks like after tonight.

Debates can TOTALLY change the game from here.

[Spendulus]

...
Oh yeah I'm not saying there's something WRONG with using a revocable trust where you still more or less have control of the assets. That was me just clarifying, as when most people think 'trust' they think of something that is irrevocable and can't be controlled by themselves at the moment. That wouldn't be the case for someone who's children are now in charge of the company...

A revocable trust seems like a proper method of handling the assets, given the term may be four years, or eight, or less than four, if you had believed the impeachment scam. The term was not known, but would come to an end.

[JollyGood]

That is the thing, will it be enough to bring Trump down or will the concerns surrounding Biden and his health be enough by some voters to want to keep in power?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54319948

As per the BBC News: "In a public filing, President Trump said he made at least $434.9m in 2018. The newspaper disputes this, alleging that his tax returns show the president had instead gone into the red, with $47.4m in losses."

I think there is a huge disparity between the $434.9 million that Trump claims he made and the $47.4 million losses that the New York Times claims he actually incurred - therefore if trump thinks he is right he should sue the NYT. So will he do it?

Let us see what he says about these allegations when he attends his next press conference.

I think that this is done because it is legal when filing disclosures/ other documents (like bank financing) you're allowed to estimate what your income is going to be, instead of sending in the fully cleared documents when your filing out your tax returns. Plus for your tax returns you MAY be carrying a loss forward from prior years, something that wouldn't really make sense to do on a disclosure of income form.

Trump is going to deny this, I don't think that's surprising though. Who knows if this'll turn into an October surprise that can take down Trump. I think we're all expecting for some anti Biden news to come out soon to counteract all of this.

[Spendulus]

....

I think there is a huge disparity between the $434.9 million that Trump claims he made and the $47.4 million losses that the New York Times claims he actually incurred....

In the morass of tax law, both could be simultaneously true.

[eddie13]

$400mm in debt is nothing when you have $2-$8 billion in assets..
How many of you have mortgages?

I do not see tax minimalization as immoral at all..
I might not even feel that actual tax evasion is immoral, depending..

[suchmoon]

$400mm in debt is nothing when you have $2-$8 billion in assets..
How many of you have mortgages?

You mean a mortgage where the whole principal is due next year and there is no income to repay it? I don't have one of those.

[Spendulus]

$400mm in debt is nothing when you have $2-$8 billion in assets..
How many of you have mortgages?

You mean a mortgage where the whole principal is due next year and there is no income to repay it? I don't have one of those.

For commercial mortgages. 3-10 year terms are very common.

The reason is that the lender just uses works a spread on short term CDs.

[eddie13]

$400mm in debt is nothing when you have $2-$8 billion in assets..
How many of you have mortgages?

You mean a mortgage where the whole principal is due next year and there is no income to repay it? I don't have one of those.

It’s called a “balloon” payment mortgage/loan, which are very common in residential land contracts and commercial real estate loans..
Basically just means the loan has to be refinanced within the term.. I’ve had one myself..


Real estate investing, usually, is a game of making more profit on the investment that it costs to service the debt on the investment.. For example, look into the BRRRR method..
For most it’s more of a cashflow game than an assets/equity game.. But Trump is very heavy into the equity/assets side, actually owning the majority of his holdings without being leveraged to the max, which most are..

Most real estate “investors”, who “own” many rentals, usually have them all very close to maxed out in leverage as a way to expand..

When Trump says his debt to assets ratio is low, well, “debt to asset” ratio is a very common metric in the business world, especially real estate where most use a lot of leverage..


If you buy the propaganda that Trump is broke because he has loans, you probably don’t understand how the world works..
All fiat money is debt btw, I think you would know..

Real estate and the credit system are kinda a couple of my many other interests other than crypto..
Anyone wanna chat about how to max out your credit score and how to use it to make money off of the banks? Heh