Default trust is the most important metric here in my opinion.

[Jet Cash]

For some instinctive reason I decided to check my entry on BPIP, and I was disappointed to see that I had dropped from DT1 to DT2, and I'm not sure what caused this. I know that TMAN was, deservedly in my opinion, a DT1, and he put me in his list, but as he has left the forum, I guess his opinion no longer counts. I've been pretty active and controversial in the covid threads, and I am saddened by the fact that most people don't seem to bother with the observable facts, and just accept the pharmaceutical narrative, and I wonder if this has affected my trust ranking in some way. I have also been having difficulty in awarding merits, and I don't want to compromise my ( possibly unpopular ) standards by just awarding them to empty my merit chest.

I believe that trust should be related to trading and honesty, but it is difficult to trade in this forum. My only relevant trading is the buying and selling of domain names, and there is not a usable board here, despite the interest of many members in web site construction. My other interest is the purchase of small quantities of Bitcoin for Sterling, and apart from JackG, I have not managed to find any such trades. I have advertised in my signature, and on a couple of the boards here, but with no success.

So my question is - how can members improve their trust ratings if there are no business trading opportunities in the forum?

[1715666114]

1715666114

[1715666114]

1715666114

[jackg]

You can have a look at loyce.club to see exactly where the trust was shed but I found you had 7 qualifying votes according to this page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dt

I think it was 10 votes you needed from people who've earnt 10+ merit.

Trading isn't as much of a thing atm I don't think as there's fewer people in the forum. I got to. The currency exchange about twice a week and there aren't normally European trades there.

[NeuroticFish]

So my question is - how can members improve their trust ratings if there are no business trading opportunities in the forum?

Trust rating is no longer only related to trading. I've put negative feedback on users trying out various scams, I've put negative feedback for impersonating, for automated translations... but far too few over time, I know.
But I think that this is DT about: highly active users that put negative feedback on wrong doers. Of course, the DT members have to be highly trusted, since negative feedback leads sooner or later to various sorts of questions and also retaliation.

[Jet Cash]

@JackG

Thanks for that link. I don't recognise most of the people in the level 1 list, so maybe that explains things. Is there some massive underworld here that I don't know about, or am I living in some historic subset of members?

[mocacinno]

I've been on bitcointalk since 2014, never scammed anybody, never doxxed, never plagiarised, don't care for drama threads... I'm 99%  >90% here for technical stuff, because i love the technology that's discussed here but not the drama that's always unfolding in front of our eyes. I was banned for a couple of days once because i participated in a giveaway that was started in the wrong subforum, that's about it.
I have 4 neg tags, 3 of them come from game-protect (so i consider them a badge of honour instead of a neg tag). The last one was from some guy who took offence by the way i was actually helping people. He didn't offer any assistance, but felt that the way i assisted them was "wrong". He actually called me "the most dangerous person on bitcointalk"...   But every other tag i have is positive-ish...

Even after all this time, i'm fluctuating in and out DT2. But the thing is: I really couldn't care less.
Sure, it's an ego thing: it's always nice to know people trust you... But if you're not trading on this forum (wich neither of us seems to be doing), how is somebody actually going to trust you? I mean, as long as people don't know you in person, or haven't succesfully trusted you with big amounts of money, why would they actually trust you...

At least, that's my takeaway... But to be honest, the times i'm in DT2, I tend to put more scrutiny on myself when tagging somebody or supporting (or opposing) flags. It adds a tiny bit of stress to my day (not a lot tough) since my ratings are shown as "trusted" and the flags i support/oppose can actually become active/inactive due to me... So, i really couldn't care less if i'm in DT or not.

Just my 2 satoshi's tough...

EDIT: PS: for what it's worth, eventough i don't agree with your stands on the corona-epidemic, i do trust you... I wouldn't take any of your virus-related advice, but if you'd ask me if i'd trust you to hold a couple hundred bucks of my funds, i'd probably say that you're trust-worthy

[Jet Cash]

Well maybe that is where I go wrong. I'm not particularly interested in getting into flame wars, and members like " Very Well Endowed" and "Frankly" that seem to be trolling me, I just put on ignore. I don't even know if they are still doing it, as I don't read their posts, and can only judge by the juxtaposition of their replies. I report the odd post for plagiarism or spam, but not very often. I'm here for the information and the news, and finding a few friends is an added bonus. I'd like to use the forum for a few domain or Bitcoin trades, and it saddens me that it doesn't seem possible at a time when we are going through a major economic reset, and a shift in social and banking behaviour.

[suchmoon]

You can have a look at loyce.club to see exactly where the trust was shed but I found you had 7 qualifying votes according to this page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dt

I think it was 10 votes you needed from people who've earnt 10+ merit.

That page (or any page on Bitcointalk) can't show if Jet Cash has 10 votes. You'd need to look on LoyceV's site:

https://loyce.club/trust/2020-09-26_Sat_05.08h/698159.html

Which tells us that Jet Cash qualifies - definitely more more than 10 users trusting him, large amounts of merits between them. However there is also the lottery: DT1 has 100 spots so if more than 100 users qualify then the 100 are picked randomly each month. For example 139 users qualified this month:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117330.msg55139286#msg55139286

Jet Cash simply lost the lottery. However that doesn't change his trustworthiness and he's still in DT2 so his ratings, flag support/opposition, etc still carries the same weight. Next selection is in a few days.

[dkbit98]

Don't worry about it Jet Cash
Default Trust is lottery based and even theymos was DT2 at some point, and same apply to all DT1 members.
I honestly don't care if I am DT1, DT2, DT3,but I am sure DTrolls (aka Default Trolls) like shithunter, BSV and similar imbeciles care very much about DT 

[Jet Cash]

Well I know that life is a lottery, but I think one should be able to have some control of one's reputation and honesty. I made the mistake of including the statement that I was a DT1 member of this forum, and I hoped that this would bring in some new business members. Obviously I can no longer make that statement, and I will need to remove those links. Honesty and trust is something you earn, you don't win it in a lottery in my opinion.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I believe that trust should be related to trading and honesty

Trust feedback should be related to trading, honesty, or likelihood of scamming. However, in your first paragraph you are talking about your ranking on default trust, which is related to your judgement and not necessarily your honesty.

So my question is - how can members improve their trust ratings if there are no business trading opportunities in the forum?

I would flip that question over and ask "If there are no business opportunities which interest you on the forum, then why do you need a high trust rating?"

[AB de Royse777]

Does Jet Cash know that LoyceV is not in the DT1 network any more :-P
https://loyce.club/trust/2020-09-26_Sat_05.08h/459836.html

My point is if with 211 inclusion LoyceV is out of DT1 than why would anyone of us will feel sad about it when we are not in the DT1 network. :-D Anyway, the answer is already there by suchmoon,
In the lottery your name was not picked.

I would flip that question over and ask "If there are no business opportunities which interest you on the forum, then why do you need a high trust rating?"

Maybe it's prestigious too.

[suchmoon]

Maybe it's prestigious too.

A bulls eye on your back is what it is. "Prestige" of being trolled relentlessly, particularly if you happen to have an opinion and not just sit quietly hugging the DT1 badge

[AB de Royse777]

A bulls eye on your back is what it is. "Prestige" of being trolled relentlessly, particularly if you happen to have an opinion and not just sit quietly hugging the DT1 badge

If you are actively defending the wrongdoing, constantly working to protect the innocents from the bad guys, working hard to keep the community safe you will be picked by those who are not getting benefit from it or is not able to walk away freely because of you. They will troll you and will do whatever they can to stop you. Being in the DT1 or DT2 network is not a matter for them.

Point is, trolls will troll you, haters will hate you even when you are not doing anything, your position does not matter for them.

[Jet Cash]

"If there are no business opportunities which interest you on the forum, then why do you need a high trust rating?"

I'm active in a number of locations on the net, including my own websites. Bitcoin has become the currency of the Internet, and I hope that I can persuade more buyers of domain names to use it for payment. Bitcoin Talk is a great reference for potential users, and thus a good credit rating here could be important. Obviously stating that I am DT1, when due to a lottery, this is no longer true, diminishes my credibility. Potential buyers will obviously wonder what I have done to lose my ranking. Perhaps it is time to use a more accurate name for the system. The alternative is to remove oneself from the rankings, but this seems to be counter productive for every one concerned.

[DaveF]

Dave's ramblings:
One of the issues (IMO as always) that there are a lot of people, myself included who will ~ you for being a scammer or an idiot or a troll or whatever.
But to actually get added to the list the bar is much much higher.

There are only a few people on my admittedly short list that I have added without trading. Either very helpful members, known scam busters, know to report a ton of malware or other things, etc.

There are a bunch of people with ~ that are just trolls or scammers or asshats. Never dealt with them but just reading their posts got them there.

There are 1 or 2 with ~ that just seem off to me and for some reason I just don't trust them. Can't put my finger on it, they just seem "off"

So, for DT1 although there are a lot of people who claim that it is rigged I don't think it is.
I just think you have to be doing certain things that a lot of people, myself included that help the forum and show you are doing things that people want to see.

As an example (And once again this is just me) there are these 2 threads in meta:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5182222.0

People are spending time pointing out posts that hurt the forum. I might have never traded with you, or even know who you are but there are at least 2 people on my trust list that are active in those threads because they help keep the forum clean.

Just posting might get you merits, but to get added to trust seems to be harder. You said you were on DT1, so you know it's not impossible It just takes some work to stay there are people move on and off because you have to stuff that makes all of them with their various views add you to their trust list.

-Dave

[Jet Cash]

I can appreciate that the mods need help to keep control of such a busy forum, and I am pleased that there are members who are prepared to provide this help. I don't think that I an the right person to do this though, as I have my own standards, and they don't always coincide with the general forum opinions. For example, I would neg anybody who makes nested quotes, as I find them extremely annoying. I don't feel that my use of the ignore button rather than the report button is a reflection on my honesty or trust though.

I guess the bottom line is that Bitcoin Talk is missing a massive opportunity for the promotion of Bitcoin by not providing a business trading platform. Without this, it is difficult to see how it can retain a leading position in the Bitcoin world.

[KaneVWE]

For some instinctive reason I decided to check my entry on BPIP, and I was disappointed to see that I had dropped from DT1 to DT2, and I'm not sure what caused this. I know that TMAN was, deservedly in my opinion, a DT1, and he put me in his list, but as he has left the forum, I guess his opinion no longer counts. I've been pretty active and controversial in the covid threads, and I am saddened by the fact that most people don't seem to bother with the observable facts, and just accept the pharmaceutical narrative, and I wonder if this has affected my trust ranking in some way. I have also been having difficulty in awarding merits, and I don't want to compromise my ( possibly unpopular ) standards by just awarding them to empty my merit chest.

I believe that trust should be related to trading and honesty, but it is difficult to trade in this forum. My only relevant trading is the buying and selling of domain names, and there is not a usable board here, despite the interest of many members in web site construction. My other interest is the purchase of small quantities of Bitcoin for Sterling, and apart from JackG, I have not managed to find any such trades. I have advertised in my signature, and on a couple of the boards here, but with no success.

So my question is - how can members improve their trust ratings if there are no business trading opportunities in the forum?

This paragraph demonstrates why

1. DT1 means zilch with regard being trustworthy.
2. Your opinions are perhaps the result of either
a/ senile dementia
b/ just general low capacity to absorb and process information accurately.
c/ intentionally nefarious.
d/ other

Let me clearly substantiate those points

1. Many people on DT1 have indisputable and conclusive evidence proving they have been guilty of serious financially motivated wrong doing. They also are clearly abusing the trust system and some are proven liars.

If you want the evidence simply struggle over to the dirty turds thread here or take a look at the lauda flag in rep or examine the lfc proven liar thread or the nutildah proven willing scam facilitator for pay thread.
If you are incapable of researching then ask me for the specific links.


2. Your other stated opinion that Tman deserves to be on DT1 is hilarious.
He is a proven auction scammer, was implicated strongly in an extortion scheme with his best pal lauda another proven scammer.
He is a self confessed trust abuse who claims he can and will red tag people for presenting the truth.

Therefore it is very sensible that you're not on DT1 not that it makes any real difference since DT2 can trust abuse people and also get away with making false claims of trolling against those that dare to counter your spurious silly slobbering with strong corroborated arguments aka truth and reality.

I agree a long trade history should be part of the equation but of course you need to be able to process information correctly. if you believe that proven scammers and trust abusers should be in positions of trust then of course your opinions can not be trusted.

Now can you please debunk any of those points?

I'll await the running away ( ignoring or false claims of trolling you ) when I am simply correcting you and furnishing the reader with on topic and relevant information that will prevent them from being mislead by your opinions and speculations.
I don't believe you have formed these misleading opinions due to a lack of access to pertinent facts.
You simply seem to wish to promulgate false and debunked information as true.
This is really what trolling is.

Break it down point by point if you like and ask for any evidence you require.
I am always happy to be civil and help those that are reasonable.

If you are a nefarious alt then of course you will not even wish to debate in public and establish the truth.

If you really must get on DT1 then the case maybe that they are not yet confident enough that you'll be useful to them.

If you detect any trolling in this post please specifically highlight it so I can see where you've misunderstood.

[Pmalek]

This is a Bitcoin forum so your opinions about COVID should be irrelevant when we are taking about trust. Same goes for everyone else. If you are being trusted or distrusted based on your posts about COVID, I would rather question the decisions of people who base their judgement on such opinions.

You don't have to claim that you are a DT1 member, saying you are a DT member suffices. You have positive trust, to me it appears as +4, for others maybe more. DT1 or DT2, it doesn't really matter. Anyone who has been here long enough has heard about you. A different badge wont change that.
I rarely check my own ratings, and just a few days ago I noticed that I was added by Daniel91 on his trust list. He is a +2 so does that make me a +1 now, or...? According to bpip, it doesn't. 

 

[shield132]

My response may be a little bit off-topic but first of all, I want to say that Default Trust shouldn't be the most important metric here! Because Trust is abused and this is the place where we are more likely anonymous. Default Trust and trust scores in overall may give a little bit boost in confidence someone to take first step in trading or trusting something, it's like gambling where chance of win is 90% but you don't know whether that 10% shine or not.

So my question is - how can members improve their trust ratings if there are no business trading opportunities in the forum?

Why do you have to improve trust ratings? It's just numbers and it's easy to fake numbers. Anyone can organize a good plan about how to boost their trust, even with trading. Someone may trade even thousands of USD just for trust score, it's like investment in your trust. But there are other people who have a need of trading and find this place a good one to trade and built trust naturally that they really deserve.

Trust system is dilemma here.

[actmyname]

Perhaps it is time to use a more accurate name for the system. The alternative is to remove oneself from the rankings, but this seems to be counter productive for every one concerned.

What's wrong with merely stating that you fulfill the requirements for being chosen as one of the council of DT1's? The nature of the requirement by itself shows that you are trusted by multiple meritorious individuals. One could associate that with being trusted by various accounts of reputable status, though this is up for debate. FWIW I hardly look at trust anymore and pass most things through escrow. Why even think about it?

Addendum:

The whole point of the revised DT system is to encourage users to create custom lists. This has been successful in some part, due to the fact that there even exist DT1 users: accounts would have had to set at least 10 users on their trust list, which should invariably increase decentralization from the base case of "theymos trust user"