Trump allies urge him to condemn White Supremacists following debate

[squatz1]

Axios put out a great piece today talking about the little bit of a scandal that Trump created last night when he wouldn't straight out say that he condemns White Supremacist groups. Totally a softball question the he should've just nailed, but he was too combative and simply didn't do so.

I'll be summing up some stuff that the article says, will source below. First off, Congressional Republicans have begun pressing Trump to correct the record, and the only thing he has done so far is to say that he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are, though they should stand down. Which is a start, but not enough to heed off the attacks.

In my own personal opinion - How hard is it to say the word "I condemn White Supremacists" -- if you want to go after Biden in another part of the debate then do so, but don't just say that Biden is the only person that does wrong and you are totally in the clear. Clean up the record and then put Biden on the defensive.

I'm personally not very sure on why Chris Wallace decided to ask this question, though what's done is done.

https://www.axios.com/trump-debate-cleanup-proud-boys-9493d9df-5765-41b7-82c3-4232e73ec757.html

[Spendulus]

Axios put out a great piece today talking about the little bit of a scandal that Trump created last night when he wouldn't straight out say that he condemns White Supremacist groups. Totally a softball question the he should've just nailed, but he was too combative and simply didn't do so.

I'll be summing up some stuff that the article says, will source below. First off, Congressional Republicans have begun pressing Trump to correct the record, and the only thing he has done so far is to say that he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are, though they should stand down. Which is a start, but not enough to heed off the attacks.

In my own personal opinion - How hard is it to say the word "I condemn White Supremacists" -- if you want to go after Biden in another part of the debate then do so, but don't just say that Biden is the only person that does wrong and you are totally in the clear. Clean up the record and then put Biden on the defensive.

I'm personally not very sure on why Chris Wallace decided to ask this question, though what's done is done.

https://www.axios.com/trump-debate-cleanup-proud-boys-9493d9df-5765-41b7-82c3-4232e73ec757.html

The problem is likely the expansion of the term "White Supremacist" in the last year or two to include virtually all whites.

Wallace was also deflecting from the massive violence of the last six months, virtually all of which had nothing to do with such organizations.

[suchmoon]

The problem is likely the expansion of the term "White Supremacist" in the last year or two to include virtually all whites.

Wallace was also deflecting from the massive violence of the last six months, virtually all of which had nothing to do with such organizations.

Both statements are completely false - "white supremacists" doesn't mean and never meant all white people, and Wallace wasn't deflecting anything, he was asking a very simple question. "I condemn white supremacists" - how hard could it possibly be?

Trump fucked up bigly and as usual there is all sorts of excuses flying around, like your attempt here. Then he'll say something making you and other apologists look like complete idiots. Maybe "I was just kidding".

[squatz1]

The problem is likely the expansion of the term "White Supremacist" in the last year or two to include virtually all whites.

Wallace was also deflecting from the massive violence of the last six months, virtually all of which had nothing to do with such organizations.

Both statements are completely false - "white supremacists" doesn't mean and never meant all white people, and Wallace wasn't deflecting anything, he was asking a very simple question. "I condemn white supremacists" - how hard could it possibly be?

Trump fucked up bigly and as usual there is all sorts of excuses flying around, like your attempt here. Then he'll say something making you and other apologists look like complete idiots. Maybe "I was just kidding".

+1 to that.

That really shouldn't be that hard to do. Even if you're a racist, how hard is it to utter the words "I condemn White Supremasicts in every form" -- Like shit is not saying that going to lose you some voters?

I personally highly doubt that those voters are a large enough part of the base to do anything - compared with everyone else who is appalled by this. I'm expecting him to come out and say it straight away though.

OCTOBER SURPRISES ARE COMING SOON FOLKS!

[suchmoon]

OCTOBER SURPRISES ARE COMING SOON FOLKS!

I'm quite surprised there is an October this year. The way 2020 was going we should have been under 3 feet of ash from Yellowstone by now. Oh well, no such luck, we may need to endure orange supremacist Halloween slash election.

[Spendulus]

The problem is likely the expansion of the term "White Supremacist" in the last year or two to include virtually all whites.

Wallace was also deflecting from the massive violence of the last six months, virtually all of which had nothing to do with such organizations.

Both statements are completely false - "white supremacists" doesn't mean and never meant all white people, and Wallace wasn't deflecting anything, he was asking a very simple question. "I condemn white supremacists" - how hard could it possibly be?

Trump fucked up bigly and as usual there is all sorts of excuses flying around, like your attempt here. Then he'll say something making you and other apologists look like complete idiots. Maybe "I was just kidding".

No offense but you guys suck at misquoting and reframing reality to fit your confused objectives. Here's the actual event.

Wallace: “Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland?”

Trump: “Sure. I’m willing to do that.”

Biden: “Do it.”

Trump: “You want to call them, what do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name. Go ahead. Who do you want me to condemn? Who?”

Wallace: “White supremacists and right-wing militias.”

Biden: “White supremacists. Proud Boys. Proud Boys.”

Trump: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what. Somebody has got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem, this is a left wing. This is a left-wing problem.”

[suchmoon]

No offense but you guys suck at misquoting and reframing reality to fit your confused objectives. Here's the actual event.

And later Trump said he doesn't know Proud Boys.

He was clearly avoiding saying "I condemn white supremacists". There is nothing to misquote or reframe because he simply didn't do it when given a chance.

[Spendulus]

The problem is likely the expansion of the term "White Supremacist" in the last year or two to include virtually all whites.

Wallace was also deflecting from the massive violence of the last six months, virtually all of which had nothing to do with such organizations.

Both statements are completely false - "white supremacists" doesn't mean and never meant all white people, and Wallace wasn't deflecting anything, he was asking a very simple question. "I condemn white supremacists" - how hard could it possibly be?

Trump fucked up bigly and as usual there is all sorts of excuses flying around, like your attempt here. Then he'll say something making you and other apologists look like complete idiots. Maybe "I was just kidding".

Chris Wallace: "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups...?"

President Trump: "Sure, I'm willing to do that...Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I'll tell you what...somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left."

[suchmoon]

Chris Wallace: "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups...?"

President Trump: "Sure, I'm willing to do that...Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I'll tell you what...somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left."

Wallace: "Are you willing, tonight, to say that killing people is bad?"
Trump: "Sure, I'm willing to do that... Ted Bundy, stand back and stand by! But I'll tell you what... somebody's got to do something about lawn darts and lawn chairs."

It's quite astonishing how far you're willing to defend such an obviously bungled response. Not to mention that Trump had the whole day today to just say simply "I condemn white supremacists" and he still didn't do it.

[Spendulus]

...Not to mention that Trump had the whole day today to just say simply "I condemn white supremacists" and he still didn't do it.

But I answered that. You just didn't like the answer.

Just like BLM words say one thing and actions say another, "White Supremacists" can mean virtually anything the propagandist wants. Certainly once you add the concept of "systemic racism" to it.

You will note that Trump asked for specific groups.

There's nothing wrong in asking for clarity and precise definitions.

[suchmoon]

But I answered that. You just didn't like the answer.

Yeah I didn't. Because it's simply not true:

Just like BLM words say one thing and actions say another, "White Supremacists" can mean virtually anything the propagandist wants. Certainly once you add the concept of "systemic racism" to it.

Chris Wallace is not a "propagandist" and he qualified the question reasonably well:

[...] condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence [...]

What possible interpretation could there be that needs clarified?

You will note that Trump asked for specific groups.

There's nothing wrong in asking for clarity and precise definitions.

The was no lack of clarity in the situation. White supremacists are bad. Denounce them. Move on.

Even if we assume for a moment that he wanted "clarity"... next day he walked back even his statement about Proud Boys saying that he doesn't now them. Quite the opposite to what you're trying to ascribe to him here.

[Spendulus]

But I answered that. You just didn't like the answer.

Yeah I didn't. Because it's simply not true:

Just like BLM words say one thing and actions say another, "White Supremacists" can mean virtually anything the propagandist wants. Certainly once you add the concept of "systemic racism" to it.

Chris Wallace is not a "propagandist" and he qualified the question reasonably well:

[...] condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence [...]

What possible interpretation could there be that needs clarified?

You will note that Trump asked for specific groups.

There's nothing wrong in asking for clarity and precise definitions.

The was no lack of clarity in the situation. White supremacists are bad. Denounce them. Move on.

Even if we assume for a moment that he wanted "clarity"... next day he walked back even his statement about Proud Boys saying that he doesn't now them. Quite the opposite to what you're trying to ascribe to him here.

I'm just quoting the actual conversation. Surely you don't have a problem with that?

As for wanting clarity in words, is it your right to tell someone else they don't need that, or their right to require it?

If one is at an outdoors table at a restaurant and some thugs come up and want me to raise my fist in support of BLM, does one automatically follow their request?

[suchmoon]

I'm just quoting the actual conversation. Surely you don't have a problem with that?

As for wanting clarity in words, is it your right to tell someone else they don't need that, or their right to require it?

If one is at an outdoors table at a restaurant and some thugs come up and want me to raise my fist in support of BLM, does one automatically follow their request?

I'm trying to imagine Chris Wallace as a "thug" and sorry, I can't

Again, if Trump was having clarity issues in such a simple situation he could have easily apologized and condemned white supremacists the next day. Instead he walked back even the mild critique of Proud Boys he made on Tuesday.

[Spendulus]

I'm just quoting the actual conversation. Surely you don't have a problem with that?

As for wanting clarity in words, is it your right to tell someone else they don't need that, or their right to require it?

If one is at an outdoors table at a restaurant and some thugs come up and want me to raise my fist in support of BLM, does one automatically follow their request?

I'm trying to imagine Chris Wallace as a "thug" and sorry, I can't

Again, if Trump was having clarity issues in such a simple situation he could have easily apologized and condemned white supremacists the next day. Instead he walked back even the mild critique of Proud Boys he made on Tuesday.

Suit yourself. All I'm saying is you can't approach another person, and tell them how to act, behave or what to say. There's something I intrinsically dislike about recitations of creed and dogma. Doesn't matter what it is.

And by the way, the phrase "white supremacy" is as we talk, being modified from it's old definition to a new broader, more inclusive one, as illustrated by the 1617 project.

You don't get to say how someone responds to a question. What you can do is try to understand how and why they responded like they did.

Let's look at some news reporting on this matter.

During the first presidential debate on Tuesday night, Fox News host and moderator Chris Wallace asked President Donald Trump to condemn white supremacists and the militia groups that have occasionally appeared at Black Lives Matter riots in American cities this summer. Trump, who has condemned white supremacists many times, asked for an organization he should tell to stand back. Democratic nominee Joe Biden suggested the Proud Boys, and Trump told them to “stand back and stand by.” Wallace did not press Biden to condemn antifa or Black Lives Matter, the movements behind most of the riots.

Democrats responded in two ways. They attacked the Proud Boys as white supremacists and they condemned Trump for supposedly being unwilling to condemn white supremacists. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) proved the worst offenders, outright accusing Trump of being a white supremacist himself.

There's no "there", there.

[eddie13]

The problem is that the left tries to label anything positive about whites as “white supremacy” in their agenda to instill white guilt and turn whites into the new Jews of wwii..

Their is no reason to be ashamed of being white, no reason not to be proud of your culture and heritage just like every other race is allowed, and militias are good.. I support the right of US citizens to organize and form militias..

The kkk, neonazis, and such are obviously nutjobs, but modern culture is being pushed so anti-white that anything positive about whites is attempted to be labeled as “white supremacy”, and it’s bs..

So being so quick to condemn everything they try to label “white supremacy” is a bad move..

[Spendulus]

.... modern culture is being pushed so anti-white that anything positive about whites is attempted to be labeled as “white supremacy”, and it’s bs..

So being so quick to condemn everything they try to label “white supremacy” is a bad move..

In fact I view, given the obvious shifting meaning of the term, questions about your feelings about "white supremacy" to be very misleading. You think it means one thing, and you agree, then later it's used in a completely different way and they'll say you agreed.

[suchmoon]

.... modern culture is being pushed so anti-white that anything positive about whites is attempted to be labeled as “white supremacy”, and it’s bs..

So being so quick to condemn everything they try to label “white supremacy” is a bad move..

In fact I view, given the obvious shifting meaning of the term, questions about your feelings about "white supremacy" to be very misleading. You think it means one thing, and you agree, then later it's used in a completely different way and they'll say you agreed.

Even if you're totally fine with Trump's failure to condemn white supremacists you have to realize that he blew his chance to appeal to undecided voters beyond his shrinking base. Very few outside said base seem to share your view on this.

[PrimeNumber7]

Trump designated the KKK, the former terrorist wing of the Democratic Party, as a terrorist organization. I am not sure how much stronger Trump can condemn white supremacy.

I would also note that in 2017, without being asked Trump said the white suppremists should “totally be condemned”. This is often ignored by the propaganda spread by Democrats about Trumps reaction to what happened in Charlottesville, VA.   

[Spendulus]

.... modern culture is being pushed so anti-white that anything positive about whites is attempted to be labeled as “white supremacy”, and it’s bs..

So being so quick to condemn everything they try to label “white supremacy” is a bad move..

In fact I view, given the obvious shifting meaning of the term, questions about your feelings about "white supremacy" to be very misleading. You think it means one thing, and you agree, then later it's used in a completely different way and they'll say you agreed.

Even if you're totally fine with Trump's failure to condemn white supremacists you have to realize that he blew his chance to appeal to undecided voters beyond his shrinking base. Very few outside said base seem to share your view on this.

The ‘Trump Won’t Condemn White Supremacy’ Garbage Is Media’s Lowest Moment

Chris Wallace had so many egregiously awful moments during the first presidential debate that it’s almost impossible to count them. His bias was evident almost from the first question and the journalistic malpractice he casually committed for the entire “debate” is the reason I think Republicans need to stop agreeing to participate in these charades.

As I have written many times, my issue with these political Kabuki theater “debates” is that the questioning is all framed around Democrat talking points. You’ll hear a lot of “Why don’t you believe in climate change?” crap but never anything like “How can you be a Catholic and support infanticide?” That would be a tough question. The kind a real journalist would ask. Sadly, real journalists have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

The moment from Tuesday’s debate that has gotten the most attention was Chris Wallace’s hacktastic demand that President Trump denounce “white supremacists and militia groups.” ....

Trump might have been able to handle the question better but I’m glad he didn’t completely take the bait. A key component to the Democrat/media collusion regarding the violence in America right now has been to blame it on “right-wing” “white supremacist” “militia” groups. I put all of those in quotation marks because they are the keywords that the MSM are supposed to use to deflect from the fact that the people who are actually setting cities on fire are left-wing progressive lunatics.

Rather than being pressed to acknowledge and condemn that easily proven fact, Biden was allowed to call antifa an “idea” and carry on with his drooling assessment of reality. That response of his should have been the real news from the debate.

It’s farcical that Trump is being forced to condemn the violence in America when most of it is being directed at him. In a sane world, journalists would be pressing Biden to disavow not only antifa, but the anti-cop, anti-American Black Lives Matter movement as well. Both groups have become threats to national security.

https://pjmedia.com/columns/stephen-kruiser/2020/10/01/the-morning-briefing-its-time-that-democrats-are-asked-to-condemn-some-things-n988670

[Spendulus]

The problem is that the left tries to label anything positive about whites as “white supremacy” in their agenda to instill white guilt and turn whites into the new Jews of wwii..

Their is no reason to be ashamed of being white....

So being so quick to condemn everything they try to label “white supremacy” is a bad move..

Suchmoon is attempting to argue there is some standard, obvious definition of "white supremacy" that Trump would be an idiot even to ask for a more precise definition.

I disagree, and obviously Trump disagreed.