Don't send PMs begging for merits.

[icopress]

That is part of the opening sentence in the latest PM I received. He goes on to mention his merit count, and asks if I support this initiative of Theymos. They are getting quite creative with their merit begging.

You are confusing me because I do not understand why you distort the facts (exaggeration may be normal for you, but not for me).
And before creating a thread, you could just clarify what message I was talking about, then you probably would have lost the desire to act out the drama.

But undoubtedly some people got screwed by this, and if they have decent posts, by all means, give them the 250 or 500 merit that they need to rank-up.

As for PM... I was looking for a wiser interlocutor and asked for advice from some of the forum participants based on their judgments or the judgments of people from their circle of trust, since I trust them directly.

Some of them kindly shared their thoughts on this matter, showing more or less relevant topics. And we have come to an agreement that there is no hard policy regarding users approaching a new rank and the threads discussed are more suited to DTs or people encouraging decent posts. Although now things are so that many simply ignore such threads.

Yep, I got one unsolicited PM that I could barely make sense of, but it had to do with merits and I think the member was asking me to review his post history.  I don't consider that merit begging and I actually don't mind if members send me PMs asking me to review their posts, but in this last case I deferred replying to the member since I had a hard time figuring out what he was asking exactly.

As for you, The Pharmacist, I have already answered above why I wrote to you. And it seemed obvious to me that you might be asked for advice, not because you might be a generous sender of merit, but because of your sober mind. And if my memory serves me, I also supported those users when I agreed with you and when you were empty.

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[MainIbem]

If you want me to award you with merit, apart from the standard awards, then persuade me to revive one of my old projects, so that members can earn merit ,and  be of benefit to the forum.

There was a thread you introduced that helped many earn merits sometime ago when the merit system was introduced. It will certainly be a good idea to revive that project.

When I read the rules some days ago I realized that merits are earned by
- Making relevant contribution to the forum,
- Bringing new ideas to help educate other members,
- And presenting your contributions to help promote bitcoins
Not by going around begging and sending PMs to other higher members for merit awarding which in my case I would consider disturbance that needs ignoring

Very true. Merit beggars are just some lazy folks.

[Lucius]

How glad I am if this will ever be implemented but I don't think this will ever be changed so easily by theymos, I think this requirements are established anymore.

No one expected such a drastic change to occur when the merit system was introduced, but most will agree that this was necessary given the incredible amount of spam and huge alt account farms that abused everything they got their hands on. But every measure is subject to modification at any time, so if the admin estimates that the existing ranking system is too demanding for most, I don't see why some requirements wouldn't change, and that might include new ranks.

Still, I don’t think that would solve the problem of merit begging via PM or even in a public way. For some, this is something completely natural, just like plagiarism.

[erikoy]

No one expected such a drastic change to occur when the merit system was introduced, but most will agree that this was necessary given the incredible amount of spam and huge alt account farms that abused everything they got their hands on. But every measure is subject to modification at any time, so if the admin estimates that the existing ranking system is too demanding for most, I don't see why some requirements wouldn't change, and that might include new ranks.

Still, I don’t think that would solve the problem of merit begging via PM or even in a public way. For some, this is something completely natural, just like plagiarism.

Make merits to decay so that we can see the actual merits provided by the admin to an ideal circulation for the forum. @OgNasty had done some good support on newbie in the Beginners & Help section by giving them almost 7 merits just signing in bitcoin address and verify them one by one. I think getting in to member rank is not difficult for those newbie who had been rewarded with the merits rewarded by him.

I saw many users here that are doing great in making statistics and that would be good to determine here the statistics of number of users per rank. So that admin can check whether it is really need to give more merits or not depending on the number of users as per rank.

Decaying merits would still be the best option I guess. However, I think that admins had plan on this already and they just going to implement it on the right time. Of course if you are planning so must think ahead so that you can avoid possible technical mistakes for the forum and to the users of bitcointalk. We'll have to wait, see and trust the admin.

[JohnBitCo]

I was going to post this in the beginners section, but it seems to be the mid ranking members that do this. It is against the forum rules to beg for merit, and not all members are as lenient as I am. If I receive these begging PMs then I just put the member on ignore, so he won't get any merit from me, no matter how good his posting may be. I don't get very many, but I have had a couple recently, so I thought it was time to remind members about merit begging. I don't sell merit either, but it must be over a year since I have had a request to sell merit.

If you want me to award you with merit, apart from the standard awards, then persuade me to revive one of my old projects, so that members can earn merit ,and  be of benefit to the forum.

I think it would be better if you expose few of them who PM you for a merit. If you publicly announce who are PM you for merits, they won't get the merit from anyone and it will be a good lesson for them.
Also it will prevent people from further asking for merits in the inbox and this trend will soon end. There could be a thread where everyone could report who is privately asking for merits.

[vapourminer]

Make merits to decay so that we can see the actual merits provided by the admin to an ideal circulation for the forum. @OgNasty had done some good support on newbie in the Beginners & Help section by giving them almost 7 merits just signing in bitcoin address and verify them one by one. I think getting in to member rank is not difficult for those newbie who had been rewarded with the merits rewarded by him.

I saw many users here that are doing great in making statistics and that would be good to determine here the statistics of number of users per rank. So that admin can check whether it is really need to give more merits or not depending on the number of users as per rank.

Decaying merits would still be the best option I guess. However, I think that admins had plan on this already and they just going to implement it on the right time. Of course if you are planning so must think ahead so that you can avoid possible technical mistakes for the forum and to the users of bitcointalk. We'll have to wait, see and trust the admin.

sMerits given to merit sources every month (as opposed to regular merits) do disappear 30 days after they are given. use em or lose em as they say. these monthly sMerits given do not show in a sources merit count ( this one everyone sees under to your account name). regular merits given to folks by non sources do last forever. or until theymos changes things.

also regular merits given to sources act like regular merits given to anyone else.

of course they way i described this is probably even more confusing. im pretty good at getting things wrong and/or not explaining well.

edit: i did receive a rather confusing PM recently.

[OgNasty]

Yes, asking for merit is not only pathetic, but it shows that these users are interested in inflating their presence here through any means necessary.  These are the kinds of users that destroy decentralized systems for everyone.

Don't be like Vod.  Don't demand merit from people.

I'll expect to see some merit from you as stated when I launch the new URL and new design sans big banner ad in your face.  

[iamsheikhadil]

I think begging for merits should be considered a serious offence with a temporary ban. But we have topics where people giveaway merits by asking others to post their thread links etc. It's hard to define a line between requesting to check a person's posts and give merits if they deserve and simply begging for merits by saying "please check my posts and give merits sir" the final discretion is in the giver's hands. But if they continue to insist then that should warrant a warning or a temporary ban.

[Daniel91]

I think begging for merits should be considered a serious offence with a temporary ban. But we have topics where people giveaway merits by asking others to post their thread links etc. It's hard to define a line between requesting to check a person's posts and give merits if they deserve and simply begging for merits by saying "please check my posts and give merits sir" the final discretion is in the giver's hands. But if they continue to insist then that should warrant a warning or a temporary ban.

I think that the limit can be drawn between the wanted and unwanted request for merits.
If the OP allow applications for merits in the merit giveaway topic  it should be ok but if after closing the topic members continue to send applications for merits then it should not be allowed.
I don't think it's hard to draw the line and then it's up to the OP whether he wants to report unwanted requests for merits or not.
In my case, I did not report such unwanted merits requests and maybe I should have.

[Jet Cash]

I've given merits as a reward for taking part in various projects - Fit to Talk English for example. Joining that isn't begging for merits in my opinion, although the expectation of a reward is possibly the primary reason for joining it. It's a bit like offering to pay someone to mow your lawn, which is obviously acceptable,and someone begging for money by sitting outside the supermarket, and that isn't in my opinion. Although I believe that buskers provide a service, and that should be allowed ( within reason ).



Meritable post requests is a difficult one. I don't really like them, but I can understand that a member with smerits to award may not have the time to hunt for quality posts, and such threads can provide a way for him to distribute his smerits. Direct requests by PM are an intrusion, and I believe that such offenders should be placed on ignore at the very least.

[UserU]

I think it would be better if you expose few of them who PM you for a merit. If you publicly announce who are PM you for merits, they won't get the merit from anyone and it will be a good lesson for them.
Also it will prevent people from further asking for merits in the inbox and this trend will soon end. There could be a thread where everyone could report who is privately asking for merits.

There might be some who might oppose, claiming privacy of PMs should be respected #PLM.

Ironically it happened in the Wall of Shame thread not too long ago.

[onecall123]

There might be some who might oppose, claiming privacy of PMs should be respected #PLM.

Ironically it happened in the Wall of Shame thread not too long ago.

Do you realize that people can have a different sense of humor? So not all the messages contains with value, purposeful, encouraging some are pathetic as well. For instance, If you have received such begging PMs then you just simply put the member on your ignore list just like OP did. Sound agreeable, nah?

Some member need to grow up, as merit things make them impatience. However, Newcomers should keep the privilege of curating the discussion, for everyone's benefit.

[shield132]

I don't believe that buying high ranking accounts is good. It tends to bypass the selection process, and it is a bit confusing for members. However, lets say a senior exec from a £10billon exchange wants to join - should he have to start as a newbie, when he clearly isn't a Bitcoin newbie?  I would suggest a new rank of "sponsor", and it would be up to Theymos to decide if an applicant is suitable. Posting and advertising rights could be based on either payment, or the status of the sponsor's organisation.

Before registering here, I was actively using this forum for educational purposes but started with newbie's rank. I think that's normal and we shouldn't test someone's knowledge and give them rank according to that but I agree with you at some point. I think we should have a badge like sponsor or verified user, most likely this will be used on company's representatives here, those who make official ANN threads. Verification may be done the way fb pages, twitter accounts are verified on famous persons.

In overall, current merit system needs some significant changes and improvement, we shouldn't stuck on old, first model because time already show us what's happening around it. For example, merits mustn't be given on local boards cause people here think like: Hey, this guy is from my nation, let's unite and help each other.

Merit has turned into business, some guys have tons of merits on local boards where foreigner has no idea what they talk but they don't have any merits on traditional/global boards. Some people even just directly ask for merits to strangers... I think such people should be excluded from merit system, which, as a result cause stuck of their rank.

Those who ask only for merits look this forum as a commercial thing and a way to earn some bucks via posting. When you post without passion and for some bucks, this means you aren't doing thing that you enjoy and don't give a fuck other posts while posting. You visit thread, post, get some bucks and go away, then repeat the same. That's what lowers the quality of content on this forum.

[krishnaverma]

It is sad to see that a member has to remind newbies regarding this even after so much time the new system was enforced. I mean if someone has not understood or accepted the new system that ranks members based on merits, he should consider other platforms.

By begging for merits, one will only worsen his situation like he might get on the ignore list of reputed members or merit sources.

[Twentyonepaylots]

Rules are equal for all in everywhere.  So every member has to abide by the rules of this forum.  Everyone has to accept that the ranking changes on the merit system.  It is not a place of emotion to beg for merit.

Very correct. Furthermore, no point in begging, it will not give anything positive.

I don't know if most or some of newbies are begging for merits to rank up in the forum, some newbies are only here to share to some ideas and got interested to cryptocurrencies. I did not imagine they will get to the point of begging merits through private messages, well it does makes sense for them coz they will get banned if they include it in their posts but hell no it's very futile.


Rank is just a small hurdle slightest restriction to contribute in the forum.

[Peanutswar]

I've never experience begging for merits because Im just a full member? or this commonly happens with a higher rank?. Well, mostly I just read a lot of thread which is asking for help how they earn merit. Base on my experience there are some members asking for help about the scamming platforms and asking for tips how do they can earn merit and rank up to join into the signature campaign.

It is sad to see that a member has to remind newbies regarding this even after so much time the new system was enforced. I mean if someone has not understood or accepted the new system that ranks members based on merits, he should consider other platforms.

By begging for merits, one will only worsen his situation like he might get on the ignore list of reputed members or merit sources.

Even there is no merit begging there are some members using merit abuse, as events, and some of the merits give away they are spamming their account just to earn merit and join into bounty campaigns/signature campaigns.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

As a source I find it very helpful when links are sent to me indicating some quality post I must have missed in my attempt of looking for quality posts to merit. I even took it a step further by creating a thread just for that purpose (can be found here). I'm not advocating for PM's to be sent to me begging for your personal post to be merited but if you come across quality threads and don't have smerits to award, you can make use of my thread highlighted above and when I got some spares on me, I'll do the needful, only if I find them worthy based on my standard.

I love how theymos, give use the privilege to interpret some rules on our own instead of imposing some interpretation on us. Assuming I was to receive a PM trying the convince me of how your post deserve some merit I would consider that to be you begging for my smerits but if that PM was to be a thread of someone else, I won't consider it merit begging.

Instead I will see it as you trying to contribute to the growth of the forum in your own way since you don't have the smerit but wish for those threads to be merited which might just persuade me into reviewing your account.

[Jet Cash]

I'm thinking of using merits to promote various boards, and as an experiment, I'm going to give at least 25 merits to posts on the tech support board today. Obviously posts will have to be about Bitcoin and Bitcoin core.

Please don't span ne with links, I'll find the  posts that I like during the course of today.

[GeorgeJohn]

Yeah it's obvious that beginner's always conscious of getting merits in order to ranked up, a newbie begging for merits or PMs for merit, it's some how prohibited because the protocols of Bitcointalk community do not permits such.

But looking at other way round a beginner is looking for an easy access to get merits in all ramifications, which I can see as a respect  or regards to whom user that been PM, because is not everyone that beginner's can ask or beg for help in order to accelerate in forum of the forum.

From my views if new users PM a senior member of the forum for merits,and the forum's, rules and regulations of the community does permits such, I will advice to leave the user for sometime, like intervals of two weeks, after such the new user should be merited via any of his quality Post so that it will not  be discouraged.

But try to let the user know that why you merited him is because of his contribution and level of text construction, so that the user will add more efforts in text construction which will fetch him merits instead of soliciting for merits in different angles of the forum.

[lifeOK]

Everyone wants his ranking to be promoted but it has to be done legally.  This is not a place to be promoted by begging with passion and there is no satisfaction in it.

Exactly, Just keep engaging with your quality posting and contributing to the discussion and then you you'll automatically climb the ranking. Self promoted that's lead illegal in the long run won't help at all. Be a contributing member of the forum not the toxic individual to others member. Criteria is just that simple to be followed.