California to consider slavery reparations after landmark law passed

[JollyGood]

Guardian says:

California will consider paying reparations to descendants of slavery, becoming the first state in the US on Wednesday to adopt a law to study and develop proposals around the issue.

The law establishes a nine-member taskforce to develop recommendations for how California could provide reparations to Black descendants of enslaved people and those affected by slavery, and would look into what form those reparations might take and who would receive them.

The recommendations would not be binding. The taskforce must submit a report to the state legislature one year after its first meeting.

“As a nation, we can only truly thrive when every one of us has the opportunity to thrive,” Gavin Newsom, California’s governor, said in a statement. “California’s rich diversity is our greatest asset, and we won’t turn away from this moment to make right the discrimination and disadvantages that Black Californians and people of color still face.”


Some might say that paying descendants of slaves would not help those that were affected all those years ago and it would be pointless but I think Gavin Newsom (Governor of California) is taking brave bold steps to help the US address one of the darkest chapters of its history. A year after its first meeting the task force must reports its findings to the legislature and then the next step (if any) could be considered.

What do you think.. is this going to be a blueprint for other states to follow suit? Is this the way forward for the sake of the US addressing its dark and shameful past?


More here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/30/california-slavery-reparations-law

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[Spendulus]

Is this the way forward for the sake of the US addressing its dark and shameful past?
...

The US does not have a dark and shameful past.

[franky1]

issues i see
1. proving the decendants
2. proving the original slave was not compensated when they were freed
after all having kids while  slave was not a massive thing to happen. so the decendants would usually have been birthed after the slave was set free and probably compensated.

yes there were many cases where decendants were the result of master/slave rape and yes that should be compensated. but trying to gather evidence from over 100 years ago of what actually happened and if the slave was previously compensated fairly. makes this new policy hard to determine
things like DNA tests of the white decendants of the original master to compare lineages may need to be involved.

..
for the non master/slave rape situations, but for the unfair freedom compensation situations. this is hard to prove. masters could have wrote they paid x and only paid 0.x but legally the only proof is of x being paid.
..
i dont think that the policy will just pay out all claims just because they say they are the great grandchild. it wont be that simple

[squatz1]

................... What in gods fucking name is government doing now?

Imagine being a taxpayer in the state of California and thinking about how your tax dollars are being used for this sort of thing? This is going to take YEARS of studies that are paid for by California to determine if REPATRIATIONS IN THE YEAR OF 2020 ARE WORTH IT.

There are so many other avenues to go down if you want to fix issues, but handing people money is not going to fix barriers in society.

[Jet Cash]

I thought California was bankrupt. Or does "slavery reparations" mean sending them to the homelands of their ancestors?

[BADecker]

Guardian says:

California will consider paying reparations to descendants of slavery, becoming the first state in the US on Wednesday to adopt a law to study and develop proposals around the issue.

The law establishes a nine-member taskforce to develop recommendations for how California could provide reparations to Black descendants of enslaved people and those affected by slavery, and would look into what form those reparations might take and who would receive them.

The recommendations would not be binding. The taskforce must submit a report to the state legislature one year after its first meeting.

“As a nation, we can only truly thrive when every one of us has the opportunity to thrive,” Gavin Newsom, California’s governor, said in a statement. “California’s rich diversity is our greatest asset, and we won’t turn away from this moment to make right the discrimination and disadvantages that Black Californians and people of color still face.”


Some might say that paying descendants of slaves would not help those that were affected all those years ago and it would be pointless but I think Gavin Newsom (Governor of California) is taking brave bold steps to help the US address one of the darkest chapters of its history. A year after its first meeting the task force must reports its findings to the legislature and then the next step (if any) could be considered.

What do you think.. is this going to be a blueprint for other states to follow suit? Is this the way forward for the sake of the US addressing its dark and shameful past?


More here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/30/california-slavery-reparations-law

California doesn't do anything. Rather, it is the people in Government who are making the decisions according to their best wisdom... often the wisdom of how to channel the spending into their own pockets.

If the people don't like it, they can recall the governor, etc.

[JollyGood]

You articulated the main issues in an excellent manner. You are right, there will be many logistical issues. Would the best option just might be to make a formal apology for historical conduct?

issues i see
1. proving the decendants
2. proving the original slave was not compensated when they were freed
after all having kids while  slave was not a massive thing to happen. so the decendants would usually have been birthed after the slave was set free and probably compensated.

yes there were many cases where decendants were the result of master/slave rape and yes that should be compensated. but trying to gather evidence from over 100 years ago of what actually happened and if the slave was previously compensated fairly. makes this new policy hard to determine
things like DNA tests of the white decendants of the original master to compare lineages may need to be involved.

..
for the non master/slave rape situations, but for the unfair freedom compensation situations. this is hard to prove. masters could have wrote they paid x and only paid 0.x but legally the only proof is of x being paid.
..
i dont think that the policy will just pay out all claims just because they say they are the great grandchild. it wont be that simple

[eddie13]

It would be racist to think any minority would lie so if they are a minority and claim they should get it they will just get it..

The only difficult part is to justify how to organize a fat beurocracy around it to create more government jobs..

I also like how they immediately excluded all the descendents of Irish slaves right off the bat.. How efficient of them..

[BADecker]

It would be racist to think any minority would lie so if they are a minority and claim they should get it they will just get it..

The only difficult part is to justify how to organize a fat beurocracy around it to create more government jobs..

I also like how they immediately excluded all the descendents of Irish slaves right off the bat.. How efficient of them..

Since it is a law that nobody should accept racism, the minority who are racists shouldn't be condemned... condemned by those others, in the race of non-racism.

[franky1]

I also like how they immediately excluded all the descendents of Irish slaves right off the bat.. How efficient of them..

yep history forgets the irish slaves. but thats because they got well compensated and were offered jobs to become police officers.
yep there is actually a irish cop stereotype for a reason

that said to add to my previous posts point. the number of slaves in just california back in those days was not high.
yes 4mill US wide but maybe only 4-6k in california. because california was using them mostly for the goldrush era which says only 4k african americans were slaves in that.(task force is ordered to check records to get accurate counts/identify ancestry)
so its not like its going to compensate millions of people, just thousands. so not a big budget item to cry about the treasury spend amount on
so dont cry about the tax spend

[eddie13]

Compared to most other slave owning countries, especially per capita, America (The USA) had very few slaves period, for a very very short amount of time, and is more responsible for the worldwide END of slavery than any other country..

So yeah..

The US does not have a dark and shameful past.

X100

[af_newbie]

Guardian says:

California will consider paying reparations to descendants of slavery, becoming the first state in the US on Wednesday to adopt a law to study and develop proposals around the issue.

The law establishes a nine-member taskforce to develop recommendations for how California could provide reparations to Black descendants of enslaved people and those affected by slavery, and would look into what form those reparations might take and who would receive them.

The recommendations would not be binding. The taskforce must submit a report to the state legislature one year after its first meeting.

“As a nation, we can only truly thrive when every one of us has the opportunity to thrive,” Gavin Newsom, California’s governor, said in a statement. “California’s rich diversity is our greatest asset, and we won’t turn away from this moment to make right the discrimination and disadvantages that Black Californians and people of color still face.”


Some might say that paying descendants of slaves would not help those that were affected all those years ago and it would be pointless but I think Gavin Newsom (Governor of California) is taking brave bold steps to help the US address one of the darkest chapters of its history. A year after its first meeting the task force must reports its findings to the legislature and then the next step (if any) could be considered.

What do you think.. is this going to be a blueprint for other states to follow suit? Is this the way forward for the sake of the US addressing its dark and shameful past?


More here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/30/california-slavery-reparations-law

They better start paying everyone as we all come from East Africa.  Otherwise it will be a blatant discrimination. ROFL.

[Gyfts]

issues i see
1. proving the decendants
2. proving the original slave was not compensated when they were freed
after all having kids while  slave was not a massive thing to happen. so the decendants would usually have been birthed after the slave was set free and probably compensated.

yes there were many cases where decendants were the result of master/slave rape and yes that should be compensated. but trying to gather evidence from over 100 years ago of what actually happened and if the slave was previously compensated fairly. makes this new policy hard to determine
things like DNA tests of the white decendants of the original master to compare lineages may need to be involved.

..
for the non master/slave rape situations, but for the unfair freedom compensation situations. this is hard to prove. masters could have wrote they paid x and only paid 0.x but legally the only proof is of x being paid.
..
i dont think that the policy will just pay out all claims just because they say they are the great grandchild. it wont be that simple

There is basically no way for anyone to verify this information, California just being woke because that's where we are now.

No one who owned slaves is alive, no one who was a slave is alive. So there is no reason why anyone should be paying reparations or be paid reparations.

[JollyGood]

Eddie, it was the The Slavery Abolition Act 1833 passed in London, Great Britain which kicked started something which within 6 years would abolish slavery inside the whole of the British Empire (except 2 occupied lands).

Many years later there were laws passed in many US states holding up slavery as acceptable so the USA was not most responsible for the worldwide end of slavery, the primary factor seems to be the British Empire.

Compared to most other slave owning countries, especially per capita, America (The USA) had very few slaves period, for a very very short amount of time, and is more responsible for the worldwide END of slavery than any other country..

So yeah..

The US does not have a dark and shameful past.

X100

[franky1]

There is basically no way for anyone to verify this information, California just being woke because that's where we are now.

No one who owned slaves is alive, no one who was a slave is alive. So there is no reason why anyone should be paying reparations or be paid reparations.

if you actually read the bill being proposed. you will see that it says they want to form a task force of under a dozen investigators to look at old tax records, old land records, old insurance policies and old police reports.

yep they kept records.
they want to first see if they can identify any 'victims' left out of previous compensations and also any reports where people were harmed, harrassed or treated as illegals even after being endorsed as being made a citizen

so its not a just pay out any claim
so again for emphasis. slaveowners had insurance policies on slaves. yep they paid a premium where if the slave ran off the slave owner got paid.. so the insurance company(lets call them police) would try finding the slaves and return them to the slaveowner to prevent paying out insurance.
the word police. comes from the origins of 'policies of insurance'.
yep the very first polce force were slave hunters. thats why people of colour have anger towards the police because of their sworded history
and yep some of these records still exist in some form.

this year a taskfork is being made to look over all these records and other records from other departments and get a list of any 'victims'
this includes things like descendants who are treated as illegal immigrants recently even if they can prove their ancestry back to a 'freed' citizen

this is something they want to do and then if any claims come that meet the criteria. and then have it all dealt with and over with by 2023.

yes im my view it is just a 'woke' campaign to say they done something. yes it will be a small cost. but after that point they can finally say.. just shut up and stop crying, all victims have been compensated, lets finally draw a line in the sand and move on... now get on with your life and cry about 2020 things not 1820-1920 things that you were not even personally around to have personally suffered from

[Gyfts]

There is basically no way for anyone to verify this information, California just being woke because that's where we are now.

No one who owned slaves is alive, no one who was a slave is alive. So there is no reason why anyone should be paying reparations or be paid reparations.

if you actually read the bill being proposed. you will see that it says they want to form a task for of under a dozen investigators to look at old tax records, old land records, old insurance policies and old police reports.

yep they kept records.
they want to first see if they can identify any 'victims' left out of previous compensations and also any reports where people were harmed, harrassed or treated as illegals even after being endorsed as being made a citizen

so its not a just pay out any claim
so again for emphasis. slaveowners had insurance policies on slaves. yep they paid a premium where if the slave ran off the slave owner got paid.. so the insurance company(lets call them police) would try finding the slaves and return them to the slaveowner to prevent paying out insurance.
the word police. comes from the origins of 'policies of insurance'.
yep the very first polce force were slave hunters. thats why people of colour have anger towards the police because of their sworded history
and yep some of these records still exist in some form.

this year a taskfork is being made to look over all these records and other records from other departments and get a list of any 'victims'
this includes things like descendants who are treated as illegal immigrants recently even if they can prove their ancestry back to a 'freed' citizen

this is something they want to do and then if any claims come that meet the criteria. and then have it all dealt with and over with by 2023.

yes im my view it is just a 'woke' campaign to say they done something. yes it will be a small cost. but after that point they can finally say.. just shut up and stop crying, all victims have been compensated, lets finally draw a line in the sand and move on... now get on with your life and cry about 2020 things not 1820-1920 things that you were not even personally around to have personally suffered from

Tax records and property records do not even BEGIN to cover even the most miniscule percentage of decadents from slaves. You probably would have to conduct DNA tests on every US African American to have the highest chance of accuracy. And how would that look? Only some black people would receive respirations while others wouldn't. Super fair.

[bryant.coleman]

issues i see
1. proving the decendants
2. proving the original slave was not compensated when they were freed

There is a lot of intermarriage nowadays in the United States. A few months back, I read a statistic claiming that more than 30% of the black births are to mothers who are not black themselves. So in case a child is born to a father, who is a descendant of a slave and a mother, who is descendant of a slave-owner, will he/she be eligible for reparations? Also, blacks were not the only group to be enslaved. Asians, Whites (especially Irish and Slavs) as well as Native Amerindians were enslaved in the recorded history. Are their descendants eligible for reparations?

[Spendulus]

Eddie, it was the The Slavery Abolition Act 1833 passed in London, Great Britain which kicked started something which within 6 years would abolish slavery inside the whole of the British Empire (except 2 occupied lands).

Many years later there were laws passed in many US states holding up slavery as acceptable so the USA was not most responsible for the worldwide end of slavery, the primary factor seems to be the British Empire.....

Bah. Law prohibiting importation of slaves in the USA was in 1808. We are all glad though that you guys followed suit.

issues i see
1. proving the decendants
2. proving the original slave was not compensated when they were freed

There is a lot of intermarriage nowadays in the United States. A few months back, I read a statistic claiming that more than 30% of the black births are to mothers who are not black themselves. So in case a child is born to a father, who is a descendant of a slave and a mother, who is descendant of a slave-owner, will he/she be eligible for reparations? Also, blacks were not the only group to be enslaved. Asians, Whites (especially Irish and Slavs) as well as Native Amerindians were enslaved in the recorded history. Are their descendants eligible for reparations?

Obviously the cost in lives lost on the Union side during the Civil Wart to free the slaves will have to be charged against fund in reparations for those freed. What shall the cost per life of these brave soldiers be calculated at? Even if it was limited to California residents who enlisted in the Union, that was about 16,000 men. How will we insure the payment to their descendants?

Aside from the lives lost, there was an enormous materials and supplies cost by the Union. This should also be paid.

In other cases, the selfless gift of freedom to blacks by whites will have to be considered. That would be the loss of a titled asset worth considerable money. It's long overdue for these whites to be recognized for their courageous gift and for their descendants to get reparations for this monetary loss?

Finally, did California truly do their fair share for the Union or did they actually shirk their duty? Democrats caused a lot of trouble in California, fighting for the continuation of slavery and secession from the Union. For which the Union incurred substantial costs and which no doubt prolonged the nation wide valiant struggles of the Civil War.

"Democrats had dominated the state from its inception, and Southern Democrats were sympathetic to secession. Although they were a minority in the state, they had become a majority in Southern California..."

"Southern California, with a majority of discontented Californios and Southern secessionists, had already voted for a separate Territorial government and formed militia units, but were kept from secession after Fort Sumter by Federal troops.."

How should California be charged so that this all can be made right? To the extent California's Democrats delayed the end of the Civil War, they were responsible for delaying the freedom of All Slaves for that length of time...

Although nothing can truly correct these terrible injustices, how much should California pay us in reparations so that their dark and shameful past is made right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_in_the_American_Civil_War

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/California_in_the_Civil_War

Of course, over 9,000 Americans were impressed into the British Navy until we forced that unjust slavery to be stopped. A fair number of these were from California.

In 1795, the Jay Treaty went into effect, addressing many issues left unresolved after the American Revolution, and averting a renewed conflict. However, the treaty's neglect to address British impressment of sailors from American ships and ports became a major cause of complaint among those who disapproved of it. While non-British subjects were not impressed, Britain did not recognize naturalised American citizenship, and treated anyone born a British subject as still "British"; as a result, the Royal Navy impressed over 9,000 sailors who claimed to be American citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressment#Conflict_with_the_United_States

Reparations should be due for the dark and shameful actions of Britain. Direct to California. Other US states can follow suit.

The same reparations model can be used for the dark and shameful behavior of Britain toward its Gurkha Soldiers.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/betrayal-of-the-gurkhas-soldiers-denied-the-right-to-live-here-hand-medals-back-7301778.html

[franky1]

this appears to be a 'woke' bill just to say they doing something. but its not going to be 'repaired' in a few months. they going to string it out till 2023

the other thing is of the ~4k californian slaves they estimate
not all 4k were not compensated. so imagine if worse case half were not compensated even though california wants to say much higher were compensated

so lets just give some big numbers(yep il start with tinfoil hat exagerations)
2k slaves find 2k other ladies. they have 2 kids
so now 2k slaves become 2k+ 4kdecendants
~25 years on 4k decendants have 2kids =8k
~25 year on 8k decendants have 2 kids=6k. plus the original 2k die of old age
~25 years on 16k have 2 kids=32k. and their 4k grandparents die of old age
~25 year on 32k have 64k kids. and their 8k grandparents die of old age
(we are now at the year~1960)
~25 years 64k decendants have 128k kids. 16k grandparents die of old age
~25 year 128k decendants have 256k kids. 32k grandparents die of old age
so on 2010 stats there are probably 3 generations still alive totalling about 448k.

so the final tally of potential descendants is 448k.
then you can discount off a few of them if they died early/as single/unmarried didnt have kids.
then you can discount off a few other by if they emigrate.
then there is the other legal clauses that would exempt some

but lets continue with the extremes of the 448k
now in ~1837 the budget of compensation was £20m($100m) for 40k slaves
which breaks down as £500 per slave($2500)

which is about $68k at todays inflation = 68k*448k=$30,464,000,000
so at the very most extreme. $30.4billion payout

now here is the thing.
this $30b is based on extremes of just a loose 'pay all'/'max exageration
the actual number of unpaid original slaves will probably be 10x less.
the the amount of inter-racial 'births' were low in the 1800's so that would reduce the amount.
EG if only 200 were not compensated and 100 were male and 100 were female. and they got together to have kids.. thats only 200kids.
meaning the decendant ripple effect is much lower
EG 200kids where 110 marry compensated citizens and 90 marry uncompensated africans stil in hiding.
suddenly only 90 families become uncompensated. so 180kids.
so 180 kids in 1887 then have 2 kids from within the uncompensated community.
=360kids in 1910
=720kids in 1935
=1440kids in 1960
=2880kids in 1985
=5760kids in 2010
which is $68k*5760=$391.680.000

now also between 1837-2010 there were a few battles/world wars. so some 18yo african slave decendants may have gone to war and then died before having a chance to  get married and have kids.
so the number can be very much well under $300m
and thats before other clauses are accounted for

so.. yes i was fair and showed the math of the extreme conspiracy tin foil hat numbers($30b) and i showed a more realistic $300m.

as for the 'irish' they were compensated, and given jobs. the irish slaves didnt really suffer hense why the irish are super happy about their heritage/integration into american life.
..........
completely separate from the 1837 issue
even in the 1940's1970's some african americans went to war in WW2 and vietnam and were promised citizenship and compensation when they got home. they didnt

heck its even a problem today.
if a non-native joins the army on the promise of citizenship. its not guaranteed after they finish their service.(more of a mexican issue these days
just google veteran deported)

[Spendulus]

this appears to be a 'woke' bill just to say they doing something. but its not going to be 'repaired' in a few months. they going to string it out till 2023
....

Any shred of legitimacy given to the concept of reparations is way wrong.

To make reparations a subject deserving even a minute's time, first you have to rewrite history.

...

Wait, that's what some clowns are trying to do.