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Author Topic: The implications of using another user system to login account.  (Read 313 times)
GeorgeJohn
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October 02, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
Last edit: October 02, 2020, 11:00:44 PM by GeorgeJohn
 #1

From my view bitcoin is taking cover all over the countries, so therefore I come up on a personal question for users of these forum to look towards, especially people we respect most in forum such as, @Royse777@loyceV@CryptoPrenuerBrainboss @DdmrDdmr

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.

2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?

Because I noticed that while some persons fall into victim in the forum, most especially beginner's is because they totally deformed of information.

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October 02, 2020, 02:10:02 PM
 #2

With number 1 at the very least you've lost both of your anonymity.
If you weren't willing to share that you have the account here with them, why are you trusting their computer to be secure? Also why aren't you using incognito to log in on foreign machines if you do trust them enough...

2. Potentially. If its still enough like the article then yes, if its completely reframed and put into their own words with stuff they've put in added into it then potentially not. I think there's a point where work turns from plagiarism of to inspired by.

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October 02, 2020, 03:22:12 PM
 #3

1. having bitcointalk itself vet which system is using what login, can cause negative user experience. EG 'detecting your device' and only letting you log in from that single device will actually cause more issues for people that have multiple devices/privacy guards. so it then becomes the users own requirement to protect themselves.
if you are using someone elses device its upto YOU to protect yourself. if someone else gets your login. then its YOUR fault. so limit using other peoples devices. or ensure you delete history/cookies after use.
year ago i thought a possible thing BCT could have used was to register someones public key as their login and people would write a unique message signed by that key where the signature was the password. that way the user can keep the private key safe and other users wont be able to log in after a session expiry because it would require a new unique signature/password.

but the ease of having a device/app that can work separately from the login device but able to communicate the signature to the login device. is not mainstream.

so for now although there are methods to add layers of extra precaution. (yubikey and such) its not something people normally have and would not be something that can be just implemented overnight for free. so its upto the users to protect themselves and think smart when using other peoples devices

2. if its a copy/paste of a whole article or even sentances within the article verbatim then its definetly not unique thinking. its just lazyness.
if its copy/paste of article or sentance within. where the final destination is of a legal/political/public concern that affects/achieves the posters fame/income/stature in the community. then its plagiarism

when a no-body copies a script from another source and it affects no one and has no impact. screaming plagiarism is just a waste of time. but when that copied script can cause affects to wide community. then that person needs to explain what they are posting. and source so that people can check the source and ensure its not taken out of context to cause the reverse affect the original source intended, and also realise the secondary poster is not the source/scholar they pretend to be

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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October 02, 2020, 03:32:04 PM
Merited by CryptocurencyKing (1)
 #4

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.
From a forum’s point of view, there should be no implication. People can share the same computer and use their own personal account (and even alts, if being ethical about their usage). The forum will of course have log certain information, such as the IP address, but it’s fine to have various accounts using the same IP (that does not mean that this information can’t be used in some extreme situations).

From a personal point of view, you should really make sure you logoff the system when you finish (in case the other person inadvertely or willingly uses your account and says or does something that may lead to some sort of trouble).
Quote
2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?
Not from a forum’s point of view (*), providing the source has been added. Nevertheless, some people simply copy/paste and add the source out of habit. This is not considered plagiarism, but probably can and will be reported for providing cero added value.
The best thing to do is always use information to back your arguments, using your own words, and providing something different to the original text itself. By different I mean do not include a verbatim copy of the text, but a summary or a set of quotes, along with your opinion/questions or whatever.

(*) Technically, some sources of information may not allow you to even copy/paste + reference their work, but that is not something that’s normally a thing, and the forum is not going to be on top of these technicalities (it´s up to the poster to verify this if he considers it to be a concern).

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October 02, 2020, 05:13:48 PM
 #5

1. Since forum does allow multi accounts, there's no problem if someone log in from the same IP (Considering they are using device of other people and the their, other peoples, internet connection. But if someone else uses your account, that would be a bad as they can be harmful to the account owner and other forum members as well.
2. If they use the source, I think they are fine. In terms of informational article like "How to sign a message" or etc. it can't be called plagiarism. On the other hand, when peoole steal idea of other people, that's plagirism and sharing the source or crediting the original owner is a must.
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October 02, 2020, 09:24:45 PM
 #6

1. Since forum does allow multi accounts, there's no problem if someone log in from the same IP (Considering they are using device of other people and the their, other peoples, internet connection. But if someone else uses your account, that would be a bad as they can be harmful to the account owner and other forum members as well.
The common reason escape of those people who got caught farming signature and bounty campaigns. We already banned many user due to farming. But being an open forum, I don't see no problem about this one being a user friendly always gets being one at disadvantage.

Maybe we should start having new device log in authenticator using the registered email  Huh

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October 02, 2020, 10:52:37 PM
 #7

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.
Okay so number one isn't really an issue, its just that the community of BTT in general has seen cases where someone says "Person X logged in on behalf of me and plagiarized a post it wasn't me blah blah blah", and so usually these statements turn out to be a lie, so from a community perspective this is kinda frowned upon, but from the forum's perspective you can do it, no harm.


2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?
uHm if you spin the text and post it, and if someone catches you, you're likely gonna be banned. Spinning the text is one thing, and paraphrasing things without the intent of plagiarism is another. The gap between the two is thick as a thread, so it depends on a case-to-case basis. And if you do drop a source, then you're very less likely to get banned.

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October 03, 2020, 06:30:49 AM
 #8


2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?

You can report the posts that you think there is something wrong with or it is a plagiarize post. But if your intention is to take action to improve the plagiarism issue like calling a posts that has been copied and paste to the forum drop the source link with then think how many users will get ban. I saw even higher ranks copy and pasting article qouted and some were not but the source was indicated to talk about. The plagiarism issue is a large scale problem in this forum and we can't deny the fact that most of the user will just copy and paste the whole content of that article and will just reason out that the post was a good share and informative for all newbies or address to all users in the forum. If it was being paraphrase but the source still indicated then I could not tell its plagiarism mostly likely if the information was being deformed like you wanted to emphasize for it is all about misconception or misleading information. Plagiarism and misconception (cause by low comprehension on english language leading to deform the article content ideas) are different words and has different meaning.

Misconception could mislead the users if the shared information were deformed then maybe it is a good practice to make another research to validate all the details being shared not to believe everything that has been posted in the forum as some of them are not correct. Even the internet has provided wrong information to which users should be careful to examine all the details before proceeding something to form a conclusion of a certain topic or issue.  

If you are not sure with your posting or topic being made in the forum kindly put a disclaimer below so that all users will be aware to conduct a search review of the certain topic. In that way you will not be able to feel guilt when your share information to which you are not so sure about it.
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October 03, 2020, 07:50:40 AM
 #9

Before I give you my idea, I'd like to suggest you to improve your writing skills, vocabularies, grammar as well as sentence structure. Honestly, your sentence is challenging me to fully understand what you want to discuss. I can guess what you're discussing but the point is your words are not well-structured and somewhat mislead readers.

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.
For instance, I can guess you are asking about some kinda indicators or notifications to one member if his/ her account is logged in by non-owner (from strange IP addresses, strange geographical locations, change secret captcha code immediately after login and change password at the same login session, etc. -- some combination of them).

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Yes at somewhat extent on strange activities with log-in IPs, security logs, captcha code changes.

The forum can give you some very raw overview on your log-in IPs (last 30 days). Check it at the MyIPs page
  • Your log-in IPs (last 30 days). Check it at the MyIPs page and the announcement from theymos
  • Seclog page (search with your username to find any changes on your account recently)
  • Captcha code (If you can not log in your account by a captcha code that you have used for a while, and if you check it was changed by someone else. It is time to re-setup all your security details).
  • Read more about Privacy

Quote
2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?
Copy & paste, or paraphrase or do text-spining WITHOUT source link =  Plagiarism.

Posters can not blame on their understanding (comprehensive or smattering) to reject leaving source links. The forum has its data base to check reports from community members (Trash can) and some third party websites such as Loyce's club store your original/ unedited/ deleted posts. If you plagiarise, you can not hide it.

You can make an excuse (you must know ban appeals are mostly rejected) if your plagiarism is before 2016 because the rule on plagiarism was released sometime in 2016. DdmrDdmr pointed it out

Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.

Plagiarism is what gets people permabanned, not just copying. Plagiarism is copying with the intent of passing the work off as your own. In essentially all cases, plagiarism deserves a permaban because it usually proves definitively that the person is here for the wrong reasons: to fill up space in order to get paid, not to actually discuss or contribute. If someone was able to convince us that they were plagiarizing just to eg. impress people rather than to fill up space, then a lesser ban of a few months might instead be warranted. But this has never happened AFAICR. (Arguments based on plausible deniability aren't going to work; we don't need to prove that you had the motive we see in your actions.)

If you treat posting as a job, a chore, then you must live in fear, since the forum is not made for you. In this case, you need to blend in as someone who actually cares, but plagiarism will immediately out you, and producing a mountain of useless posts will also eventually be noticed, if more slowly. If you do actually care, then this will be obvious in your posts (and probably your merit score), and you will have nothing to fear from moderators; even allegations of plagiarism will be doubted when seen in the context of your other posts.

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October 03, 2020, 09:19:55 AM
 #10

Sorry about the late response. I see many users already left their answers but since you asked my opinion - I will respect it with my view.

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.
You are fine with it. Bitcointalk.org does not restrict you to sing in or create more than one account from same IP, family, making alts etc. So when you are using someone else's computer, and they have bitcointalk account - means more than one account are logging in from the same device (assuming from the same IP). All good!

Problem will be if any one of you have bad reputation (negative) in the forum and if any member somehow can connect you too (if even you use same social media account, coin address or connect two separate address with a common address - this kind of suspecting things) - the bad reputation will follow the other account too. And forum member may leave negative feedback for that.

2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?
When you are writing it from your level of understanding and not putting the exact sentences but the idea is the same - you are fine. This is not plagiarism imo. Dropping a source is good idea even if you are writing on the same idea from an article/journal.

.
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October 03, 2020, 09:53:44 AM
 #11


Because I noticed that while some persons fall into victim in the forum, most especially beginner's is because they totally deformed of information.

The whole problem of newbies is their laziness and greed. You should not look at the forum as a means of enrichment.


I think I understood your two questions correctly, as I get complaints and requests to remove the red tag from newbies very often.
Many people ask: is it allowed to use the forum on one computer, but having different profiles on it? Yes, this is normal and possible. BUT later the problem appears. Husbands, wives, children of those who allegedly participate in one bounty company write to me and do not understand why they were left with a red tag.

I can say that if you use one computer, you have accounts belonging to your family members, then all your data should be completely different. That is, the grandmother's account must have all the data belonging to the grandmother. Smiley The same applies to all family members. This is otherwise called an alternate account owned by one person.
And then it's useless to prove who and whose account was confused and so on.

The same applies to the text, twisted in your own words, without providing a link to the source.
Believe me, writing styles are very easy to distinguish.

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October 03, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
 #12

1. having bitcointalk itself vet which system is using what login, can cause negative user experience. EG 'detecting your device' and only letting you log in from that single device will actually cause more issues for people that have multiple devices/privacy guards. so it then becomes the users own requirement to protect themselves.
if you are using someone elses device its upto YOU to protect yourself. if someone else gets your login. then its YOUR fault. so limit using other peoples devices. or ensure you delete history/cookies after use.
year ago i thought a possible thing BCT could have used was to register someones public key as their login and people would write a unique message signed by that key where the signature was the password. that way the user can keep the private key safe and other users wont be able to log in after a session expiry because it would require a new unique signature/password.

but the ease of having a device/app that can work separately from the login device but able to communicate the signature to the login device. is not mainstream.

so for now although there are methods to add layers of extra precaution. (yubikey and such) its not something people normally have and would not be something that can be just implemented overnight for free. so its upto the users to protect themselves and think smart when using other peoples devices

Nice idea but at the same time we have to consider that there are people who don't actually have their own wallet and are using exchanges or other service providers for that purposes, so are unable to sign a message. Btw in your case, how would website be able to verify it? Would there be a certain, common text that everyone should write when signing a message?

I think bitcointalk should have an one-time login option: Bitcointalk sends one-time password on your email, you login with limited time session and also with limited possibilities (can't change password and some other options).
Or also there could be a login with three secret question, dedicated for one-time login. After filling the questions, user should login with limited possibilities that I mentioned above and after login with email, user should be able to change that secret questions for further security.

I know that will be very hard to implement but just stating my idea.


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tranthidung
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October 03, 2020, 10:29:07 AM
 #13

Nice idea but at the same time we have to consider that there are people who don't actually have their own wallet and are using exchanges or other service providers for that purposes, so are unable to sign a message.
I think of it oppositely. If you are thinking of signing a bitcoin message is a must or (at least) good support for your account ownership, you will have to use a non-custodial wallet. Non-custodial wallet is the type of wallet that people should prioritize to use.

The signed message will give them double benefits: use a non-custodial wallet (better control on their capital) and have a proof of account ownership.

Quote
I think bitcointalk should have an one-time login option: Bitcointalk sends one-time password on your email, you login with limited time session and also with limited possibilities (can't change password and some other options).
It will be possible if the forum is a commercial one. Unfortunately, it is not.

Quote
Or also there could be a login with three secret question, dedicated for one-time login. After filling the questions, user should login with limited possibilities that I mentioned above and after login with email, user should be able to change that secret questions for further security.
Because of the past hacks, if one account has a secret question was setup previously and now is logged in with this method, that account will be locked.

You can setup yours there
Code:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=YourUID;sa=account
Beware of the reminder
Quote
To help retrieve your password, enter a question here with an answer that only you know. Using this feature is not recommended. Anyone who guesses your secret answer will have access to your account. It's like a second password.

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October 03, 2020, 10:44:57 PM
 #14

when a no-body copies a script from another source and it affects no one and has no impact. screaming plagiarism is just a waste of time. but when that copied script can cause affects to wide community. then that person needs to explain what they are posting. and source so that people can check the source and ensure its not taken out of context to cause the reverse affect the original source intended, and also realise the secondary poster is not the source/scholar they pretend to be

Surprise, surprise.  I've felt the need to take exception to something stupid franky1 is saying.   Roll Eyes

What kind of half baked brain fart is this?  A "waste of time"?  So plagiarism is okay if a user isn't well known?  Please explain how creating a double standard where certain types of plagiarism simply don't matter is supposed to help make the forum better.  I don't believe it's a waste of time to discourage low-effort posting.

As far as "taking things out of context" goes, are you concerned that someone might try to muscle in on your territory?  I guess it's only natural you'd want the exclusive rights to do that.  It is your speciality, after all.

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October 04, 2020, 06:08:06 AM
 #15

Seems the questions has been perfectly answered by the community but since you asked for my opinion, just have to dropped my view to this discussion. First and foremost, when mentioning someone name and you want the users to successfully get the notification (especially if they have that option set up with the bots offering that service), then try to get the person's username correctly and space each names you intend mentioning properly. Why I'm emphasizing on this is because I didn't get any notification and probably others didn't either which is why I'm responding late today this topic.

There's no crime in using other devices that isn't yours to access your account but that doesn't means you should be careless as there could be attempts to steal your login details and don't forget to always disconnect the automatic save login options that pops up when inputting new login details (if you're using the chrome browser). Also note that, your account would be liable to questioning if there's some mistakes were you post your details with the previous users account thinking it was yours.

In regards to the second question, the moment there's a source, irrespective of the posts been word to word or a summary of the article you read online, you'll be fine but where there's an issue is what others have emphasized on which is (copying or paraphrasing the article without source) and trying to pass the information as yours.

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October 04, 2020, 02:03:20 PM
 #16

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.

I am kind of shocked that no one even mentioned the implications in terms of security..
You shouldn't trust any device to be secure. The person in control over the hardware, is in control over the whole system. And this includes any data/information passing this device.

In fact, you should always assume that a device not owned by you is compromised. Either by the owner himself or without his knowledge.
Would you really trust your private data (private keys, logins, ..) someone who you don't know how he/she handles security?

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October 04, 2020, 02:15:33 PM
 #17

If you are concerned regarding breaking forum rules by using system of another member, I do not think that there any such rule prohibiting this. But still, you should avoid this because:

1) It can result in legal issues later. If you are using the system of another member and his internet connection, it means you are sharing his IP. If he does something illegal using the same IP, you may also be in trouble.

2) Your own account may get compromised in some cases like he has software installed for recording the logs.
GeorgeJohn
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October 09, 2020, 07:58:36 AM
 #18

1) I really want to know the implications if someone uses another persons system (laptop) to login he/her bitcointalk account and knowing that the owner of the system is bitcointalk member.

I am kind of shocked that no one even mentioned the implications in terms of security..

In fact, you should always assume that a device not owned by you is compromised. Either by the owner himself or without his knowledge.
Would you really trust your private data (private keys, logins, ..) someone who you don't know how he/she handles security?

OK in what form or format can we in trust security system, so I'm trying to understand via your response that according to your observations is not really ideals to login an account of another user to someones system to a person we are not used to, based on security purposes, To be sincere what really made me to come up with this ideology is to ensure that people will not be victimized by using public system to login account because I was trying to understand it in another perspective by looking at insecurity measures and security aspects of it.

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CryptocurencyKing
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October 09, 2020, 10:29:49 AM
 #19

2) And if someone research work online and read it to his level of understanding, after comprehending the text very well, he reframed it as topic and also drop the source, Can it call plagiarism?
Having the source or sources posted over rides the article and puts off the issue with plagiarism on that post. Again still, the user must have have reframed it at its best, possibly a lot of new information or better still put in a way that could be easily understood and rather directional must have been done on such post.
The issue with plagiarism is mainly you taking credit for that which is not authentically yours which is wrong. Adding the source helps you remedy that part.

.
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October 09, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
 #20

[...] so I'm trying to understand via your response that according to your observations is not really ideals to login an account of another user to someones system to a person we are not used to [...]

Exactly.
You shouldn't enter any sensitive data (logins, private keys, ...) into systems you don't fully trust.

Public computers can easily be manipulated (either software- or hardware wise). If you don't control the hardware, you can't be sure that the system isn't compromised.

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