real costs of crypto minig and hype

[snip3r29a]

I have built a new workstation and just for fun tried to get some money back by mining.

There is many lovely "crypto profit calculators" with big earnings BUT there is lots of stuff missing.

It makes me wonder why people still GPU mine.

My PC is not mining rig so there is too much power loss...after some pimping around, I have pushed my MSI RX 5700 XT to stable 57Mh/s on ETH with questionable 110W (SW GPU readings) and to compensate for that hungry baby AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, I make it busy with XMR mining. The whole system after various optimisations draws 360W...well that is what APC UPS claims so I guess that is real value drawn from power grid.

I have noticed various GPU mining rigs miners that they love to talk about "real" power draw of GPU with some mentioning real power draw from grid. Just little technical background tells me that GPU that draws 100W (GPU sensor reading) has got 110W power draw on MoBo due current/volatge regulators on MoBo and then once again power losses in PSU, which is in my case less than 10%. End result of GPU power draw is 132W ((100*1.1)*1.1) for simplicity sake...it may be less, it is just an estimate.

My PC idles at about 90W with LCD off. Just running this mining operation draws 220W (confirmed by UPS reading) for 57Mh/s on ETH. Of course my file server with 5 x 3TB disks idles around 40W so it is without doubt possible to build a more efficient mining PC with theoretical 170W for 57Mh/s or even less with some losses in hashrate in sake of efficiency per Watt.

What is interesting that most crypto profit calculators do not take into account fees...BetterHash promises you riches beyond wildest dreams ROFL.

So I did some "real" calculation and I wonder if someone can confirm my theory because I have just about a week of real data from ethermine.org statistic.

I am using Win 10 right now with fastest ETH miner in business the PhoenixMiner. Devfee is 0.65%, ethminer pool has got 1% fee. Lets assume you always get a profit share.

Crunching the numbers in profit calc https://whattomine.com/ with custom built 170W@57Mh/s system - I will get 0.005 ETH per day, which is 1.61 CHF/day income but -1.65% mining fees so I will get  1.58CHF income.

Unfortunatelly, Swiss energy prices average 0.22CHF/kWh (neighbor Austria is not better, around 0.18€/kWh). 170*24=4.08kW*0,22=0.9 CHF cost of energy per day.

My profit is 0.68 CHF/day or ~ 20 CHF / month, which pays off GPU in more than 20 months :-D

My workstation PC currently mines 57Mh/s EHT and 15kH/s XMR @ 360W :-D

ETH +1.58
XMR +1.19 income   (1% devfee + minexmr seems to have no fee >2 XMR)

energy -0.9

NET PROFIT ~ 1.8 CHF/day or 56 CHF/month

It is of course not sustainable because hashrate is always lower and lower.

Theoretically, my CPU and GPU would pay off in more than 18 months. With access to cheap hydro energy for 0.12€/kWh it may be more interesting and I would get around 100€/month....but that is just a dream ;-)

Did I get reality correctly or did I miss something, please?

[Metroid]

To be a worthy investment, return of investment calculator needs to be 3 months or less because this market is very volatile, you dont know anything what will happen after 3 months, short term, up to 3 months is okay. Today is 20 months your return of investment, in 2 weeks could be 10 months and then after another 2 weeks can be 5 months and then after 3 months can be 100 months or even worse 200 months, before july roi used to be 100 ~ 200 months. Also this is not hype, is just like crypto market is, there are bull and bear times.

In your case, is not bad to mine as long as you are getting something out of it, but do not invest any heavy money on it, your location is not good for mining, mining is competition around the globe.

[adaseb]

One thing that you and most people that want to get into mining need to understand is "difficulty" and I am not talking about something being hard but "difficulty" is something that each crypto coins has to make the supply stable.

So if there is 1 miner, he will get 100 coins per day. If there are 2 miners, each will get 50 coins per day, if 10 miners, then each get 10 per day. This is assuming static speed. This is what is called difficulty.

Usually its not the price of BTC or ETH which makes mining unprofitable its difficulty. More people here about "getting free money on the internet by mining" and more people join in so the difficulty has to go up and there is less of a slice for everybody else.

[snip3r29a]

there is also theoretical hashrate and what you really get - ethpool average 54Mhs despite card can do 57MHs

I am aware of difficulty, it is just like a real world...you have to fight for it.

let's say I get free power from my employer...ROI would be joke anyway. 300MHs/250CHF/month for about 3000CHF rig.

[Metroid]

there is also theoretical hashrate and what you really get - ethpool average 54Mhs despite card can do 57MHs

I am aware of difficulty, it is just like a real world...you have to fight for it.

let's say I get free power from my employer...ROI would be joke anyway. 300MHs/250CHF/month for about 3000CHF rig.

Like I said before, your location is not good for mining, first because of electricity price, second because the wages is very high in Switzerland and third everything is expensive in there,  I have a sister living in there and she earns around 10k usd per month working as an employee, works 40 hours a week, to you to actually earn 10k in mining net per month, you need to invest at least 400k usd, having a hashrate of 20ghs on eth, that is almost 250 rtx 3080, you have no idea how crazy this will be, you have to rent a huge warehouse, you will spend so much money, will be so much work and in the end you may not even get 30% back of the roi. Mining is for places where the wage is very low, people can live with very little, life is cheap overall, rent is cheap, everything is cheap when you base on usd, your location everything is expensive to a point that the best thing is just to look for a job in there hehe

https://whattomine.com/coins/151-eth-ethash?hr=20500.0&p=52500.0&fee=0.0&cost=0.18&hcost=0.0&commit=Calculate

[philipma1957]

To be a worthy investment, return of investment calculator needs to be 3 months or less because this market is very volatile, you dont know anything what will happen after 3 months, short term, up to 3 months is okay. Today is 20 months your return of investment, in 2 weeks could be 10 months and then after another 2 weeks can be 5 months and then after 3 months can be 100 months or even worse 200 months, before july roi used to be 100 ~ 200 months. Also this is not hype, is just like crypto market is, there are bull and bear times.

In your case, is not bad to mine as long as you are getting something out of it, but do not invest any heavy money on it, your location is not good for mining, mining is competition around the globe.

10 usd cents is good for right now.

also winter is coming these rigs will lower your heating bill.

He is a lot more  then 10 usd cents so he should not mine with more gear.

[adaseb]

Didn't realize he lives in Switzerland, if so then what Metroid said, not the best place to mine in. He said his power is 0.22 CHF/kwh so since 1 Swiss franc is like 1.10 CHFUSD that means his power is more like $0.25/kwh, crazy expensive. People who got power a third of that price are struggling to make decent money.

There are just some places around the world that you can't mine in. One being Hawaii in USA. Their power is even more expensive and I don't think anyone living on that island is mining anything right now.

Like the OP said a few posts back, even with free power it still wouldn't be worth it. With $0.25kwh its a definite no.

[sereze]

Those thoughts are for home mining
Acording to my calculation i should get 40 cents per card per day ( profit , mening after electricity is paid ) to cover the loss of resale value over time. Now i get a dollar per card per day (profit) , I wouldn't start a new rig any less than that.

Pro's :
* If you buy the gear at a good price and sell at a good price when it is time to sell, there is profit to make
* It is a nice hobby, when you buy gear for a good deal it makes you happy. Also looking for gear, re/searching for cooling, ventilation ideas, keeping up to date with technology is nice.
* If crypto rally starts, you'd be ready to make enourmous profits

Con's :

* It takes time to run the rigs
* They could be stolen and you'd be left with less money than you had before, it is no guarantee that you can get your money from insurance becasue good luck explaining crypto currency mining to insurance inspector it's not typical home usage.
* Although unlikely ( unlikely if you use quality cables and gear )  there is risk of fire since a makeshift looking strange computer runs in your house 24/7
* They make a lot of noise and generate heat during summer , it effects quality of life in your house
* When it is time to sell your gear, you have to deal with a lot of idiots and kids and idiot kids
* You don't know what will happen in future, 8 months ago my rig didn't cover electricity and I shut it down
* Your competitors are not smart, Some of them operates with a loss so it's unfair competition.
Let me explain this: 8 months ago when mining is not profitable some people argued mining low difficulty coins and keep them then sell them later. This is not a good idea, because this is not mining, this is investing. Just mine the most profitable coin than buy the coin you think it's pricess will go up. Keeping the coins is risky , you can loose it all. I bought some steem coin from 0.70 cents, now steem is around 0.15 . That is a treamoundous loss.
-Some people (competitors) buys very expensive gear (RTX 2070, RTX2080ti and they will not cover the loss of resale value i they wont make a profit ( probably they don't need it ) but in the meantime they raise up difficulty and everybody will loose, only nvidia wins