[2020-10-08] Admiral says Bitcoin and crypto threaten democracy in South America

[bbc.reporter]

What definition of democracy was he talking about? The American democracy where every other nation follows their rules? This is similar to their peace process. If you are not with it and its interests, they will bomb you hehehehe.



US Southern Command aims to better control unruly regimes in South America, but cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin are making things a little more difficult.

For Navy Admiral Craig Faller, head of US Southern Command, the use of cryptocurrency throughout the “young democracies” of the Southern Hemisphere is a problem for the United States—and he is taking this "threat" very seriously.

Read in full https://decrypt.co/44218/us-southern-command-crypto-threatens-democracy-south-america

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[NeuroticFish]

What definition of democracy was he talking about?

It's... complicated. I think that what he means by democracy is... "wider". 
I think that he means that the fact that huge amounts of illegal money can be easily hidden into crypto, many wrongdoers cannot be sent to jail (it's too difficult for the weak/ineffective and half-corrupted law enforcement system). Most of those have big political power and will hinder the attempts to move the country towards a "proper democracy" where the law matters.

[Carlton Banks]

I think that he means that the fact that huge amounts of illegal money can be easily hidden into crypto, many wrongdoers cannot be sent to jail (it's too difficult for the weak/ineffective and half-corrupted law enforcement system). Most of those have big political power and will hinder the attempts to move the country towards a "proper democracy" where the law matters.

politically connected people can (and always did) use banks to subvert the rule of law. Bitcoin solves the problem by giving the same abilities to anyone who wants it.


This reeks of exactly that kind of person (politically well-connected and high ranked in the military) expressing fear that they are losing their previous advantages on the monopoly of corruption


A message to all such people: the genie is out of the lamp, you have already lost. True democracy (i.e. equal rights of everyone to make their own decisions in their own life) will ensue. Be nice.

[Lucius]

What definition of democracy was he talking about? The American democracy where every other nation follows their rules? This is similar to their peace process. If you are not with it and its interests, they will bomb you hehehehe.

It is precisely this democracy that the US has been pursuing in the world since the end of World War II - and that is the political, economic and ultimately military way of pursuing democracy. All relevant research shows that cryptocurrencies have an almost negligible percentage in the total world crime - because the total number of users is at best about 1% of the world's population.

I may be wrong, but this is the first time that such a high-ranking military officer has spoken in this way about the threat posed by cryptocurrencies - but given the countries mentioned in the article, it is clear that these are all those who do not want to hang a white flag - and they use cryptocurrencies to avoid the sanctions that have been imposed on them by the US. The problem is that these are mostly countries that cannot be democratized militarily (bombs on China or Russia, even Iran is not a option), and if they manage to achieve financial stability despite sanctions, there are no longer any levers to pursue US interests.

Therefore, we can say that cryptocurrencies are changing the world, and that some centers of world power are slowly but surely losing their power.

[claire_lovely]

It will lead to a better form of democracy where people have control over their own finances rather than corrupt governments who can print and fund warring regimes.

[Carlton Banks]

I may be wrong, but this is the first time that such a high-ranking military officer has spoken in this way about the threat posed by cryptocurrencies

a military truism may be apt in this case:

"if you're taking flak, it means you're over the target"

[NeuroticFish]

This reeks of exactly that kind of person (politically well-connected and high ranked in the military) expressing fear that they are losing their previous advantages on the monopoly of corruption

I never said he's right.    I only tried to see about the meaning.
We already know that (especially politically connected) people will try to hide their incapacity to get the things done by blaming Bitcoin. Nothing new under the sun.

[Carlton Banks]

This is ironic considering US often portrayed as country that guarantee freedom

a recent re-appraisal of this claim (in an article I read) suggested this may have been true, up until the year 1778

[cr1776]

What definition of democracy was he talking about? The American democracy where every other nation follows their rules? This is similar to their peace process. If you are not with it and its interests, they will bomb you hehehehe.
...

No one but a fool wants true Democracy:  Remember that Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for dinner.  And constitutionally protected liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. 

A well armed lamb would be a lamb armed with bitcoin to protect their assets from the authoritarian wolves who waiting to vote themselves the right to take your assets.  Either outright or via inflation.  And a gun to protect one's life.

In a true democracy there is no protection for minority rights since the majority can vote at any time to take those rights away. 

[buwaytress]

No one but a fool wants true Democracy:  Remember that Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for dinner.  And constitutionally protected liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. 

A well armed lamb would be a lamb armed with bitcoin to protect their assets from the authoritarian wolves who waiting to vote themselves the right to take your assets.  Either outright or via inflation.  And a gun to protect one's life.

In a true democracy there is no protection for minority rights since the majority can vote at any time to take those rights away. 

Many different levels and layers to democracy, with many variations on a "true" implementation, but can't think of a worse analogy. Even if you had 1 wolf and 10 lambs, or 100 lambs, you don't need to vote on what to have for dinner. But yeah, of course, democracy isn't perfect, I don't think even the fool claims that without knowing deep down its flaws.

If we're lambs against wolves I pity the grass who are eaten and trampled on by both.

Damn analogies, they're fun =D

[Vishnu.Reang]

I am confused. It seems to me that the admiral here has a concern about some of the democratically elected governments in South America. But I am surprised that he and his friends never cease to support the worst dictators in the world, such as Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia, Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei and Abdel Fattah al-Sisi of Egypt.

[Lucius]

I am confused.

Then you don't know how American politics works, because it's not about who's bad or good, who's a dictator or a war criminal - what matters is that it doesn't go against American interests. Take for example Iraq and Saddam Hussein who was good for the US when it came to working for American interests (to fight Iran) or Bin Laden who fought against the Russians in the Afghan-Russian war. They are all products of American politics, and when there is no use of them anymore, they kill them and remove them from the equation.

Democratically elected governments in South America in particular are valid for the US only as much as they obey their policies, and this admiral obviously thinks not everyone dances the way they play - although as I wrote in a previous post the role of cryptocurrencies in the crime world is almost insignificant.

The fact that he is an admiral does not mean that he is intelligent, so let's just look at the intelligence of US President George W. Bush, who was the subject of ridicule all over the world, but was suitable for the moment when the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were launched under false accusations that these countries are responsible for attacks on US territory, and that they have weapons of mass destruction.

[cr1776]

No one but a fool wants true Democracy:  Remember that Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for dinner.  And constitutionally protected liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. 

A well armed lamb would be a lamb armed with bitcoin to protect their assets from the authoritarian wolves who waiting to vote themselves the right to take your assets.  Either outright or via inflation.  And a gun to protect one's life.

In a true democracy there is no protection for minority rights since the majority can vote at any time to take those rights away. 

Many different levels and layers to democracy, with many variations on a "true" implementation, but can't think of a worse analogy. Even if you had 1 wolf and 10 lambs, or 100 lambs, you don't need to vote on what to have for dinner. But yeah, of course, democracy isn't perfect, I don't think even the fool claims that without knowing deep down its flaws.

If we're lambs against wolves I pity the grass who are eaten and trampled on by both.

Damn analogies, they're fun =D

It is a well known analogy.  It may not be the analogy that is bad, but your understanding of it.  Without constitutional protections in a democracy, the 49% (10% or 1% or whatever) is at the mercy of the 51%.  When the protections of minorities are eroded, the country will fail.  This implies that if one really cares about minority rights, one must protect individual rights to be treated equally with other citizens, since the individual is the smallest minority.

[Harlot]

Again with people seeing Bitcoin as a threat because it is being used by criminals and terrorist organizations I don't think they are making a valid point out of here. Since if we remove Bitcoin or bring a complete ban for it will this in reality solve out the crimes happening in the world? Of course not they will either go back to what they are using or find out another way of doing their transactions. Pointing out of blaming Bitcoin as a threat to their country is something pointless to say as this is just a currency and it's actually not linked to any kind of crime.

[bbc.reporter]

@Harlot. Pardon them hehe. Similar to the people who want the monopoly for war, there are also people who want the monopoly for money laundering and other crimes hehehe.

[sunsilk]

Again with people seeing Bitcoin as a threat because it is being used by criminals and terrorist organizations I don't think they are making a valid point out of here. Since if we remove Bitcoin or bring a complete ban for it will this in reality solve out the crimes happening in the world? Of course not they will either go back to what they are using or find out another way of doing their transactions. Pointing out of blaming Bitcoin as a threat to their country is something pointless to say as this is just a currency and it's actually not linked to any kind of crime.

They are pointing fingers to bitcoin but not recognizing this problem that you have mentioned. It's them that's in the power and points out everything as if it's very threatening to them.

very seriously.

I'm like how "very seriously" it is when there's a lot of popular exchanges that are operating in their jurisdiction.

[Harlot]

Again with people seeing Bitcoin as a threat because it is being used by criminals and terrorist organizations I don't think they are making a valid point out of here. Since if we remove Bitcoin or bring a complete ban for it will this in reality solve out the crimes happening in the world? Of course not they will either go back to what they are using or find out another way of doing their transactions. Pointing out of blaming Bitcoin as a threat to their country is something pointless to say as this is just a currency and it's actually not linked to any kind of crime.

They are pointing fingers to bitcoin but not recognizing this problem that you have mentioned. It's them that's in the power and points out everything as if it's very threatening to them.

That's another problem I see, people who are the ones with power are the ones giving the wrong information about it as they can't simply separate their opinions from facts. I've seen a lot of people in different branches of government saying wrong things about Bitcoin and the crypto industry that people who knows cryptocurrencies might think that they are either dumb or they have other motives because they can't say the truth. Either way what they are doing gives a bad image for Bitcoin and of course a bad future in terms of its legislations.

[sunsilk]

Again with people seeing Bitcoin as a threat because it is being used by criminals and terrorist organizations I don't think they are making a valid point out of here. Since if we remove Bitcoin or bring a complete ban for it will this in reality solve out the crimes happening in the world? Of course not they will either go back to what they are using or find out another way of doing their transactions. Pointing out of blaming Bitcoin as a threat to their country is something pointless to say as this is just a currency and it's actually not linked to any kind of crime.

They are pointing fingers to bitcoin but not recognizing this problem that you have mentioned. It's them that's in the power and points out everything as if it's very threatening to them.

That's another problem I see, people who are the ones with power are the ones giving the wrong information about it as they can't simply separate their opinions from facts. I've seen a lot of people in different branches of government saying wrong things about Bitcoin and the crypto industry that people who knows cryptocurrencies might think that they are either dumb or they have other motives because they can't say the truth. Either way what they are doing gives a bad image for Bitcoin and of course a bad future in terms of its legislations.

Yes, that is what's happening in some governments. Those who are in the authority which has the power to tell anything they want and everyone shall listen no matter what, don't say what's exactly true. They take advantage and mislead the people.

Even it's only their opinion, it's moving the thoughts of people whenever they say bad things about bitcoin. They are like the known investors and prominent economists who says misleading definition about bitcoin.

[bbc.reporter]

Again with people seeing Bitcoin as a threat because it is being used by criminals and terrorist organizations I don't think they are making a valid point out of here. Since if we remove Bitcoin or bring a complete ban for it will this in reality solve out the crimes happening in the world? Of course not they will either go back to what they are using or find out another way of doing their transactions. Pointing out of blaming Bitcoin as a threat to their country is something pointless to say as this is just a currency and it's actually not linked to any kind of crime.

They are pointing fingers to bitcoin but not recognizing this problem that you have mentioned. It's them that's in the power and points out everything as if it's very threatening to them.

very seriously.

I'm like how "very seriously" it is when there's a lot of popular exchanges that are operating in their jurisdiction.

It will not be very seriously if they abide by America's side of democracy hehe. All countries' governments are similar to the countries that are not a democracy in this way.

[pixie85]

It will not be very seriously if they abide by America's side of democracy hehe. All countries' governments are similar to the countries that are not a democracy in this way.

The EU democracy really is different from the US model and they are both different from the fake democracy in Russia or Belarus.

How can these things be compared? I don't quite understand it.

What do you mean? How can Bitcoin threaten democracy? It's simple. The US democracy is viewed in terms of debt. They help other countries obtain it and send them the bill along with contracts for US corporations.