"Users posting "joined" type posts when not required or allowed will be BANNED"

[friends1980]

After having read this sticky thread "Users posting "joined" type posts when not required or allowed will be BANNED" by mprep in the Bounty thread, I decided to pick one random campaign that took off recently, by a campaign manager with a good Trust rating, and to report every post which did not comply with the campaign (or forum) rules. I contacted the manager, who apologized very politely, but in the end probably didn't report a single post himself.

In this case, the rules state:
1/ No newbies
2/ PoA posts are not required for signature participants

This has resulted in almost 300 spam reports (equivalent of 15 pages) in less than 48 hours in only one campaign and gives you an idea of how much spam is caused solely by people who don't even bother to read the rules. I'm only talking about this category and not even about those who do care to read the campaign rules, and only begin to spam as soon as they're accepted

I was quite happy to see that these posts were indeed removed by the mods - thx mods! However, I was less amused when I noticed that these people haven't been banned at all. I wasn't cheering for a permban, but I presumed that they would at least receive a tempban for a few weeks or - symbolically - for the duration of the campaign (which in this case would have been 4 weeks). Seemed like a reasonable period to serve as a good lesson, without being too severe: firm but fair.

I'm very disappointed to see these people again, hardly a few hours later, posting the exact same application, still against the rules and sometimes even adding:

(...) *note: already make the proof of authentification yesterday (as you can see on the sheet), but getting deleted. hope this one is fine. thank you!

(...) My POA has been deleted by Mod because there is no rule regarding POA. I will recreate my POA (...)

(...) My previously Proof of Authentication removed by moderator

(...) I don't know why the "PROOF OF REGISTRATION" that was previously removed by the moderator   I registered yesterday

(...) PS. i don't know why it was deleted. But I want to apply again. Here was application days ago.

In other words, no ban at all, not even temporarily. You must be kidding me.

What is the use of having this rule and even emphasizing it by adding a sticky thread in the Bounty section, if it's not applied?? What a complete waste of my time this has been.


Guys, dear mods, I'm trying to contribute my fair share of the job in trying to keep this excellent community spam-free, and have been doing so for a long time now. I'm trying to fight these spammers, because I have come to like this forum so much in the past 3 years and have passed a lot of time here, having so much fun - and I'm extremely annoyed by people who are spamming this same community, without showing a shred of respect.

But I'm not Sisyphus. If people think this spam reporting of mine is just my way of fighting boredom because I haven't got anything else to do, I'm out.

Anyway, thanks for reading this post and allow me to friendly suggest to either apply this sticky thread rule of "Users posting "joined" type posts when not required or allowed will be BANNED", or to simply remove it or at least let us know if it's only there for keeping appearances.

NB: I've contacted some of these spammers above and most of them have removed their posts voluntarily in the meantime. So yes, they do wake up if the word BAN appears.

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[Smartvirus]

I don't think your fighting boredom at all, what your doing is what bounty managers and signature/avatar campaign managers are actually paid to do and it's rather stressful to me, you don't fight boredom with stress. Besides, you are actually teaching some of us, how it's done as per reporting boredom and also bringing to the notice of biginners who don't know that this form of posts on the forum in this manner are spamming the forum as well and you also remind managers and moderators the duties they are saddled. If you ask me, it's a fine and awesome job your doing to ensure the serenity of our little community.
Well, the ban punishment is always the ultimate especially, the permanent ban although, you suggested for temporal which is quite understandable. In my opinion, it's not that the moderators aren't seeing these spam messages and I won't say they aren't enforcing the rule either. At least, the spam was deleted a few times as you noted which is supposed to be a warning to the spammer but then, the spammer spams again and still go unpunished. This could be as a result of the moderator not to have kept trail on that particular user and as such, still plans to warn by deleting the post else, I believe the guilty user would and should be penalized.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

This has resulted in almost 300 spam reports (equivalent of 15 pages) in less than 48 hours in only one campaign and gives you an idea of how much spam is caused solely by people who don't even bother to read the rules.

I'm not so sure the problem is with members reading the rules or not--I think it's more insidious than that, i.e., these are intentional bumps that might even be paid for.  We've had this problem going on in the ANN section for years now, and there's no way any one mod (or even a dozen of them) can clean them up, no matter how many reports they get.

I was quite happy to see that these posts were indeed removed by the mods - thx mods! However, I was less amused when I noticed that these people haven't been banned at all.

Yeah well, they should have been banned but I don't think that would even slow the problem down much anyway.  There are so many people here with alt accounts and it's way too easy to just create a new account and write one of those stupid "great project" or "joined" posts in order to bump a thread.

I'm very disappointed to see these people again, hardly a few hours later, posting the exact same application, still against the rules and sometimes even adding<snip>

Disappointed, but I bet you're not completely surprised.  It's like a silly little game of wack-a-mole being played--and unless you have a serious interest in ANN threads, I would advise you not to waste your time reporting this shit.  Sure, you'll accumulate a lot of reports, but it's a battle that you're never going to win.

[Welsh]

I can't speak on behalf of every moderator that handles the reports, but I would think that it would vary between moderators. Some will be slightly more stricter than others, and I would argue there's definitely considerations to make before handing out bans. Especially, to those that can only nuke users, and request bans. For a simple example, if a user has posted "Joined" or some other incredibly low quality post, that probably justifies a ban per the rules if that is all the user contributes to the forum. However, if they've added something of value, and don't constantly break this specific rule, then a deletion should serve as a warning before actually receiving a temporary or permanent ban.

That's my input, after all its to the discretion of the moderator reviewing the case, and there might be other considerations playing a factor other than the reports face value. I've found myself probably being a little to forgiving sometimes, and that's something that's been worked on, but generally I think spammers are dealt with quite a bit.

Its also worth noting; When I was reporting, I recognized serial spammers much more easily than when I've been handling the reports myself. That's, simply because the sheer volume of reports that you see as a moderator, of varying different reasons drowns out the regular reports that you make as a user. Unfortunately, this means that spammers, and serial spammers at that may well creep through the cracks now, and again especially when there might be different moderators handling the report each time.

Although, this rule is followed up on a fairly regular basis, and a lot of them do actually get banned. I would guess that most of the nuked users are those with low quality replies like "joined" type posts, rather than plagiarism etc.

[friends1980]

All very understandable. Reporting spam is a shitty job, modding spam probably is a shitty job, too. It's just that I probably wouldn't have started cleaning up this thread in the first place, if it wouldn't have been for this rule that is not simply "another" flexible rule, but another flexible rule that is particularly emphasized in a sticky thread.

I can support the fact that mods try to be flexible with rules, but in this case, accentuating it in a sticky thread specifically in the bounty section - main source of all spam, and nonetheless eventually not applying it at all, is getting close of making a joke out of it - and of the people who spend their time reporting.

[Welsh]

I understand that this is a little more work on your end, and not something that's expected of you. However, if you feel that a serial spammer has been missed, and the action taken against them is lenient you can always contact a moderator, and see if they have any input on the matter. They don't have to get back to you, but they might do depending on the case. I know this is also pretty difficult, since you don't know exactly who dealt with it, but when you're reporting on a rather large scale you get used to the timezones of moderators, and the most likely handling your reports.

We do appreciate the reports most definitely, and that's coming from a user point of view. Even if the post gets deleted it makes viewing threads much more easier. I didn't tend to track what users were banned when I was reporting, I was simply happy to see the reported post get removed, but I understand the frustration of what might feel like a lack of justice, and possibly even a inconsistent way of handling things. Unfortunately, there's no real way of avoiding this, unless we enforced strict rules that didn't take any other factors into consideration, but then I would argue that would be unjust also. Of course, its much more obvious with the serial spammers, but its surprising how many well known users fall into the same traps as new users too in terms of breaking the rules.

As for the shitty remark; I definitely do believe that both sides are achieving something, and it does feel rewarding. Reporting was therapeutic to me, and moderating isn't that far off that either. I do have a huge respect for those that report though, as I know how tedious it can be sometimes. 

[Findingnemo]

Most of the bounty threads are breaking that rule but not much people are getting banned because moderators also tired of repeating it and forget to change the rules I guess. Probably the only solution is to remove the bounties section itself of we want to get rid of the spam from bitcointalk and probably it may happen if this goes out of hand.

[crwth]

I think this is one of the reasons bounty hunting is not so attractive to everyone and on the outside view of a member here, it just looks like mega spam threads. I don't understand completely how bounties work though. That's just how I see it.

I have seen that some people are getting temporarily banned from giveaways but not from bounties IIRC. Maybe something related to this? I know that bounties pay with their own token, right? Could it be somehow related to giveaways? Low effort tasks?

Altcoin give-away rule results in temporary bans. Read before posting. by tranthidung

[Lordhermes]

Temporal ban? Why not lock the thread instead, can't this help?
I think there is no way of avoiding this, bounty hunters will  still repeat the same thing as well. I really know it hurts to see hunters spamming without reading rules, moderators continuing deleting POA would be a work of infinity, without ending unless the campaign comes to an end.
If its the case of bounty hunters participating in a giveaway campaigns, then the temporary ban would be incurred on them approximately 7 days ban, so I see no banning things here but to lock the thread instead.

[GeorgeJohn]

I can't speak on behalf of every moderator that handles the reports, but I would think that it would vary between moderators. Some will be slightly more stricter than others, and I would argue there's definitely considerations to make before handing out bans. Especially, to those that can only nuke users, and request bans. For a simple example, if a user has posted "Joined" or some other incredibly low quality post, that probably justifies a ban per the rules if that is all the user contributes to the forum. However, if they've added something of value, and don't constantly break this specific rule, then a deletion should serve as a warning before actually receiving a temporary or permanent ban.

I think @Welsh has said it all, these issue it's matters of moderators who knows every implications of user because they should be the one in posittion to determine or decides the offence if the user commits,because some person are taking issues of banned upon themselves while them have no power to ban a user, looking at some new user, will like to say that them really needs consideration because they has not acclimatized with the system.

[friends1980]

The point I was trying to make was not a post about modding in general, but rather to talk about the fact that it's useless to put up a sticky thread for rules that are eventually not applied. It completely undermines the authority and the "sérieux" of the mods and it's quite demoralizing for spam reporters. Don't worry, I'm not suffering from burnout now. But I'm not mucking out these managers' stables anymore, unless application of the sticky thread is reconfirmed.

[Charles-Tim]

Probably the only solution is to remove the bounties section itself of we want to get rid of the spam from bitcointalk and probably it may happen if this goes out of hand.

I do not think this will be good, the bounties section has parts it is playing on this forum, some members are only here for bounties and know nothing about the forum, and posting what could got them banned, and banning them is appropriate. But if the bounties section is removed, I will not lie you that Bitcointalk daily total members visiting the forum will be reduced. Let us see bounties playing a good role here too but spammers and rule violators must be removed. The only solution is for moderators to continue to deleted the posts of the useless posters, and the accounts should be banned. We can also help in the report anytime we are there for moderators to easily see what to delete because the bounties useless and spam posts are too much, handling it like that is the best.

[Welsh]

Probably the only solution is to remove the bounties section itself of we want to get rid of the spam from bitcointalk and probably it may happen if this goes out of hand.

I do not think this will be good, the bounties section has parts it is playing on this forum, some members are only here for bounties and know nothing about the forum, and posting what could got them banned, and banning them is appropriate. But if the bounties section is removed, I will not lie you that Bitcointalk daily total members visiting the forum will be reduced. Let us see bounties playing a good role here too but spammers and rule violators must be removed. The only solution is for moderators to continue to deleted the posts of the useless posters, and the accounts should be banned. We can also help in the report anytime we are there for moderators to easily see what to delete because the bounties useless and spam posts are too much, handling it like that is the best.

Some users will argue that they would prefer quality over quantity though. Although, I feel like a balance could eventually be made it would likely mean introducing more strict rules, that would likely not be welcomed by a lot of people who believe in freedom, and having a pleasant experience. As with anything, balance is incredibly hard to achieve when you're talking about influencing many thousands of users.

I do believe bounties likely bring in more bad effects to the forum than good ones, but that's purely from a subjective viewpoint. They have certainly contributed to the eco system of the forum, and many would argue that has several benefits to its users, and the forum as a result.

[Findingnemo]

Probably the only solution is to remove the bounties section itself of we want to get rid of the spam from bitcointalk and probably it may happen if this goes out of hand.

I do not think this will be good, the bounties section has parts it is playing on this forum, some members are only here for bounties and know nothing about the forum, and posting what could got them banned, and banning them is appropriate. But if the bounties section is removed, I will not lie you that Bitcointalk daily total members visiting the forum will be reduced. Let us see bounties playing a good role here too but spammers and rule violators must be removed. The only solution is for moderators to continue to deleted the posts of the useless posters, and the accounts should be banned. We can also help in the report anytime we are there for moderators to easily see what to delete because the bounties useless and spam posts are too much, handling it like that is the best.

Actually this forum is created for bitcoin but still allows each and every altcoin to make their announcement thread and promote their bounties with no restrictions but they don't even want to follow the rules of this forum then they have no reasons to stay here in my opinion. Moderator job is not an easy task as well, as OP said 15 pages of spams in 15 minutes then imagine how much spams generated every day so it need humongous effort to delete them all since moderator need to analyze each and every reported posts, they don't have delete all feature.

[Nellayar]

Probably the only solution is to remove the bounties section itself of we want to get rid of the spam from bitcointalk and probably it may happen if this goes out of hand.

I do not think this will be good, the bounties section has parts it is playing on this forum, some members are only here for bounties and know nothing about the forum, and posting what could got them banned, and banning them is appropriate. But if the bounties section is removed, I will not lie you that Bitcointalk daily total members visiting the forum will be reduced. Let us see bounties playing a good role here too but spammers and rule violators must be removed. The only solution is for moderators to continue to deleted the posts of the useless posters, and the accounts should be banned. We can also help in the report anytime we are there for moderators to easily see what to delete because the bounties useless and spam posts are too much, handling it like that is the best.

Actually this forum is created for bitcoin but still allows each and every altcoin to make their announcement thread and promote their bounties with no restrictions but they don't even want to follow the rules of this forum then they have no reasons to stay here in my opinion. Moderator job is not an easy task as well, as OP said 15 pages of spams in 15 minutes then imagine how much spams generated every day so it need humongous effort to delete them all since moderator need to analyze each and every reported posts, they don't have delete all feature.

This made the forum more stressful to the moderators. The continuously spamming of newbies and unstoppable posting in bounty threads which make a certain campaign prone into bumping. I believe that having a strict rule is not enough for them because they don`t care upon their rank since newbies are still allowed to join at social media campaign. In order to prevent this kind of spamming in bounty thread, I think the best thing the managers can do is to limit the number of participants in social media or atleast have a ranking system even in social media campaign. It is obviously that they are trying to spam the bounty. Bounty hunter should always read the rules before joining the campaign they want.

[Findingnemo]

This made the forum more stressful to the moderators. The continuously spamming of newbies and unstoppable posting in bounty threads which make a certain campaign prone into bumping. I believe that having a strict rule is not enough for them because they don`t care upon their rank since newbies are still allowed to join at social media campaign. In order to prevent this kind of spamming in bounty thread, I think the best thing the managers can do is to limit the number of participants in social media or atleast have a ranking system even in social media campaign. It is obviously that they are trying to spam the bounty. Bounty hunter should always read the rules before joining the campaign they want.

Limiting participants won't happen on bounties due to stake reward system, and also they are spending no money from their pocket so the project want more exposure about their project at no cost.If any reputed manager willing to manage bounties they can implement these rules and it can make bigger change in the future bounty campaigns

[KingsGambet19]

Well if you could be the moderator what will you do when you see things coming back over and over again?

Probably if you are snappy moderator then you can imposed sanctions to the user violating the forum rules. However, it always coming back so it would be stressful in your part if you will going to work hard for this where there other sections to which activities are going to be checked.

Even myself would not take part of that stressful work. Remember that snappy or lousy you still get the same salary and that is how things would be done if I am one of the moderator in that section.