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Author Topic: Investigate, assess news. Don't simply read and make wrong decisions  (Read 293 times)
tranthidung (OP)
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October 12, 2020, 04:26:12 PM
Last edit: October 13, 2020, 01:58:08 AM by tranthidung
Merited by DooMAD (2), DdmrDdmr (2), pooya87 (1), so98nn (1)
 #1

I hope my thread can help newbies in crypto market.  Cheesy


People are talking too much about investments from Square, and Micro Strategy or hacks. Do you actually spend time to investigate news, figures inside, potential effects on market?

News from newsletters, articles, blogs, social media need to be verified quantitatively. If you don't play with figures and verify news you read, you only eat up words are written and manipulated by the others. It is root cause from which news are created for.

People mainly eat up words from news, and spread around. Repeat what they read and eat and don't spend time to verify, and assess news.

Do quantitatively research. You can not have capability to scrape data, run analyses but at least need to have intention to do this, then try to investigate. You will feel it is challenging but believe me "The more times you do it, the better competency you will achieve".

In short, what to do?
  • Raise your questions on validity of figures are presented in news and potential effects.
  • Try to find data (from some third-parties or from your own side)
  • Reproduce analysis and make comparison if possible

Quality of your investigation will depend on
  • Methodology
  • Quality of initial data sources
  • Skills to clean data before analyse it
  • Statistical analysis skills
Many factors but first 2 points are most important because "Garbage in, garbage out".

Fortunately, if you have good attitude, you can improve your knowledge, skills and quality of your investigations.

Quote
“In God we trust; all others must bring data.”

W. Edwards Deming

Quote
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

Bruce Lee

There are two types of news readers:
  • Read to get information and don't mind to verify correctness of news
  • Read to get information, then verify it with their own investigation (with quantitative data) and withdraw their own conclusions

The table shows investments from Square and Micro Strategy accounts for:
  • 0.025 % and 0.116 %, respectively in terms of total circulating supply.
  • 0.218 % and 0.991 %, respectively in terms of total 24h trading volume
  • Too small attributed percents from 2 companies

|
Company
|
BTC amount
|
USD amount
|
Source of news
|
BTC's circulating supply
|
BTC's 24h trading volume
|
% of investment / circulating supply
|
% of investment / 24h trading volume
|
|Square|4709|$50 mil.|Square, Inc. Bitcoin Investment Whitepape|18514906 BTC|2164762 BTC|0.025 %|0.218 %|
|Micro Strategy|21454|$250 mil.|MicroStrategy Adopts Bitcoin as Primary Treasury Reserve Asset|18514906 BTC|2164762 BTC|0.116 %|0.991 %|

If you move further by use deduction for potential lost bitcoin (from 2+-year inactive addresses. It is about 21.66% (in March 2020) of circulating supply or ~ 4010329 BTC (I used 21.66% and today circulating supply to estimate lost BTC).

The % of Square and Micro Strategy investments will account for 0.032 % and 0.148 % of assumed real circulating supply ~ 14504577 BTC. They are still very small figures.

Code:
. di 18514906-4010329
14504577

. di 4709/14504577*100
.03246561

. di 21454/14504577*100
.14791193

In capital flow, those investments don't make any sense for bitcoin. Fortunately, with news spread widely by Internet, social media, and bitcoiners, they resulted in positively effects in mentality aspect. Then, in turn reflect on price (somewhat). It is good but when things are good, you need to look at it and be woke!

In opposite situation, if bad news are released with same amount of investments, hacks, etc. you should be calmed down because of very low proportions in terms of total daily volume, and circulating supply of bitcoin.


Hacks
Like this news: 150,000 Bitcoin Coming Back to Mt. Gox Creditors in 10 Days; Will BTC Price Drop?

How big / small the amount is?

Please look at total exchange inflow (average). I am not able to get full data from that site so I can not give you correct average statistic but the chart shows the average would be somewhere around 50k BTC per day. By that I meant 150k BTC will take around 3 days of total exchange inflow. Not significantly big.

Remember it is inflow (in average) not total 24h trading volume on all exchanges (~2164762 BTC). It is about 6.9% of 24h trading volume (as of writing).

It has not yet consider how many receivers still been alive and still be able to receive those 150 000 BTC. Another assumption is the rehabilitation will actually happen.

Lots of IF.


Sources

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October 13, 2020, 12:00:51 AM
 #2

I mainly read to stay informed on technology updates or adoption, the effect on price in the short term doesn't matter to much to me since I will keep transaction BTC daily.

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October 13, 2020, 02:03:24 AM
 #3

Another example is "Bitfinex hackers move another $30M in stolen Bitcoin from 2016", according to news from cointelegraph.com

The amount is more than a half of investment from Square ($50 mil.) so you can imagine (with calculation of course, we need quantitative approach) the effects are small in market orders. But as always, people spread it around and their mentality have never been strong and stable.

You can argue with the total amount of BTC was hacked and moved but please with this post and that news, we are talking about $30 mil. hacked bitcoin movement only. Please take this case as a very easy exercise for you to face with news.  Tongue

Cointelegraph.com has very poor quality articles, a sort of tabloid, from my opinion, and it happens for years, not recently.

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so98nn
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October 13, 2020, 03:51:37 AM
 #4

Quote
Quality of your investigation will depend on
Methodology
Quality of initial data sources
Skills to clean data before analyse it
Statistical analysis skills
Many factors but first 2 points are most important because "Garbage in, garbage out".

And the data available on the internet is just very enormous. I mean same news gets floated with different angles all the time. Once the top news sites start publishing any news then the other time they will be copies by small to mid giants, bloggers, and social media giving out some sort of false analysis.

I barely doubt that anyone might be following the quality investigation aspects that you have laid down here; but they need to be followed if you are really gonna make important decisions (viz., trading, holding, re-sell, re-buy) based on that data.

Quote
There are two types of news readers:
Read to get information and don't mind to verify correctness of news
Read to get information, then verify it with their own investigation (with quantitative data) and withdraw their own conclusions

You really thought this through hnn?  Cheesy
I am the first one I guess and it's true. I mean all we get amazed with the news based on it's intensity and show some emotional reaction, that's all. But I never really go and verify the data seriously. Max to max I will recheck it with the bitcointalk forum. It is what it is.



In your post these were eye catchy points for me. I guess in rest of the post you tried to make an example how one could go on analysing the news and available data in deep sense. However, that either needs skills, patience and also excitement about what is being read.  Cheesy
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October 13, 2020, 04:39:43 AM
Merited by tranthidung (1)
 #5

as i always said when it comes to bitcoin news like this is not about the amount or even the short term hype that some of them may create. it is all about "FUD negation". when people are told something is "fraud", "only used by criminals", "dead", "dying", etc. they eventually don't think about anything else. the moment they hear the word "bitcoin" all of that FUD comes back in their mind.

but when they see the exact opposite is happening, the big companies are accepting it (eg. Microsoft accepted bitcoin as payment, Valve did the same, Japan adopted bitcoin as a legal way of payment,... and now this small news) they start realizing that all those things they used to hear were just bullshit.
that i believe is the main reason why bitcoin price rises in long term (not short) due to news like this not because they invested $X and it is Y% of the total supply.

.
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October 13, 2020, 05:03:46 AM
 #6

The problem is almost nobody is going to analyze what they read, much less corroborate it with other news sources. People like us are a small minority. Most people have a favorite outlet or newspaper they like to read and they believe (almost) everything in it. That's how publishing moguls have so much power because they can order people to write a story they want people to believe, and some people are too stubborn to critically assess what they read because the conclusion is something they don't like and don't want to hear. That's how fake news peddlers gain so much influence, apparently there's a whole class of people who wants to hear that the earth is flat, nobody landed on the moon, etc.

To most people, news is just opinions, not facts.

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October 13, 2020, 05:53:37 AM
 #7

The problem is almost nobody is going to analyze what they read, much less corroborate it with other news sources. People like us are a small minority. Most people have a favorite outlet or newspaper they like to read and they believe (almost) everything in it. That's how publishing moguls have so much power because they can order people to write a story they want people to believe, and some people are too stubborn to critically assess what they read because the conclusion is something they don't like and don't want to hear. That's how fake news peddlers gain so much influence, apparently there's a whole class of people who wants to hear that the earth is flat, nobody landed on the moon, etc.

To most people, news is just opinions, not facts.

It happens to every race of people; some are adamant with a particular news media. Some would never believe  different news medias from the one he/she likes can broadcast a news with facts. It is just too human and it is high time we corrected such things using blockchain and developing technologies.

R


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tranthidung (OP)
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October 14, 2020, 03:40:56 AM
Last edit: October 14, 2020, 08:14:23 AM by tranthidung
Merited by fillippone (2)
 #8

Update with the news for Stone Ridge


My own calculations

Methodology
  • Data source: https://bitcointreasuries.org/
  • I used total amount of bought BTC from the source above, then deleted unnecessary part for this summary table (for details you should visit that site to get them). I customized the table with 2 calculations
    • % / CS: = bought BTC / Circulating supply (as of writing at 18516512 BTC)
    • % / 24h TV = bought BTC / Total 24h trade volume (as of writing at 2054390 BTC)
    • Estimated lost (ES) BTC: 4010329 [1]
    • Estimated Real Circulating Supply (ER-CS): = CS - ES = 18516512 - 4010329 = 14506183 BTC
    • % / ER-CS = bought BTC / ER-CS (~14506183 BTC)
    • Figures for Circulating supply, Total 24h trade volume are taken from https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

Reminder
  • The method results in a little bit biased in % figures for companies bought BTC a long time ago but  I don't want to do retrospective data collections.
  • Companies' real data (in BTC amount) can be a little bigger or less than figures in the table
  • It is complicated because the final purpose is to calculate how big/ small those funds are for today situation and estimate likely effects if companies dump their BTC today.

Findings
  • Stone Ridge: accounts for 0.05% of CS, 0.07% of ER-CS and 0.49% of 24h TV.
  • All companies: account for 3.3% of CS, 4.22% of ER-CS and 29.76% of 24h TV.
  • Grayscale: accounts for 2.43% of CS, 3.1% of ER-CS and 21.88% of 24h TV.

[1] https://hodlwave.com/#

What news give you is much simpler.
Quote
Not only @Square
, in 2020 there are more than 10 Public Companies investing in $ BTC, with a total value of over $ 6 billion, equivalent to nearly 600,000 BTC.
https://twitter.com/Coin98Analytics/status/1315853890424717312

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October 24, 2020, 02:24:31 PM
 #9

Another example is "Bitfinex hackers move another $30M in stolen Bitcoin from 2016", according to news from cointelegraph.com

The amount is more than a half of investment from Square ($50 mil.) so you can imagine (with calculation of course, we need quantitative approach) the effects are small in market orders. But as always, people spread it around and their mentality have never been strong and stable.

You can argue with the total amount of BTC was hacked and moved but please with this post and that news, we are talking about $30 mil. hacked bitcoin movement only. Please take this case as a very easy exercise for you to face with news.  Tongue

Cointelegraph.com has very poor quality articles, a sort of tabloid, from my opinion, and it happens for years, not recently.

Cointelegraph is very popular here this is where members get their news create a topic that revolves around that news even quoting it, and people are discussing it until that thread create hundreds of replies so if the news is speculative it becomes a fact, so many are creating their posts out of context.

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tranthidung (OP)
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October 25, 2020, 03:02:28 AM
 #10

Cointelegraph.com has very poor quality articles, a sort of tabloid, from my opinion, and it happens for years, not recently.

Cointelegraph is very popular here this is where members get their news create a topic that revolves around that news even quoting it, and people are discussing it until that thread create hundreds of replies so if the news is speculative it becomes a fact, so many are creating their posts out of context.
It is said that I used that article to explain why the quality of articles, news that are seeding everyday on cointelegraph.com is terribly low. I don't say the quality is in average range or low. It is under the low level.

People want to see news, ok it is available everyday and they can read very low quality news. Remember that if you simply read news (read text by text then forget it and never mind to verify correctness and validity of information inside) you will be manipulated by news. You will read news in the same way 10 years later like what you are doing today.


I wrote this topic, OP and the updated post to remind people that most of news or articles they are reading are low quality and hide the important details. They need to dig and find details and get their own opinion.

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tranthidung (OP)
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November 04, 2020, 01:33:07 AM
Last edit: November 04, 2020, 01:53:48 AM by tranthidung
 #11

Bump !


I won't update details in the thread because it is not the purpose when I created it. For updates on Bitcoin Treasuries, you can get them with amazing thread from fillippone: Bitcoin Treasuries

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