INDIAN ECON, POLITICS, SOCIETY + BTC PRICE

[amishmanish]

BTCump. Election day is going to come to an end and we will either be continuing with the old unstable guy or will be getting a new one.

I have nearly zero direct stake in the US elections but anybody can see that the orange man single-handedly brought the level of debate and discourse to historic lows in America. This has had a ripple effect throughout the world strengthening the hand of right-wingers everywhere. This whole thing started as a pushback from the working classes worldwide against the elites who keep getting richer. Unfortunately, extremists, bigots, conspiracy theorists and all form of cuckoo people came crawling out of their basements to declare themselves to the world. My hope is that with Biden winning, this lunacy will come to a balance. Just like the left-wing lunatics needed balance, this right-wing rhetoric has gotten out of hand.

For the past couple of years, Western part of the globe has been silently controlling us either in the form of providing job in their homeland or by destroying Indian startups in the name of creation of a Digital India. So let us start the discussion here : Whom do you think will be winning the election tonight? Will Biden be more welcoming to the immigrants? Modi has made our country to depend completely upon the overseas companies which has a major share in Mechanical Sectors or more importantly IT sectors! With the temporary ruling out of the H1B Visa, our fellow citizens had faced major hardships in having a good stay in the US but I don't think this will continue for long enough.

Its the lack of foresight and competence of Indian leadership that they can't see this game plan of keeping India limited to being a middle-class market and a middle-class service providers. Western corp. learnt their lessons after China made rapid advances through reverse-engineering, copying, iterating and at times IP espionage. Indians waited for the tech masters to share but as was seen in case of Russia (cryo engine), France (Rafale Know-how Jaguar upgrades), USA (GE Reactors) etc, no major corporation is going to provide you any assistance.

Indian companies are on their own and they still refuse to spend on R&D. There is still an abysmal gap between Industry and academics. And to drown all these real issues, we talk about Digital India.

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[teosanru]

^^ Its should be about policies, not Anti Modi/Trump/Biden. Personal relations doesn't matter much in politics.

Indo pacific and China-crisis - No matter who wins, they just want to push for more weapon deals and counter China including Indo-Rus trade  so brace for more military cooperation,they already pitched the f-18 idea (Minus Technology Transfer).

On 370 Kashmir/ Internal Matters - Biden might not want to provoke India but don't forget ilhan omar and Pramila Jayapal going to be very vocal on Kashmir issue, in short pro Pakistani narrative and its all about narrative, if you lose the narrative then no-one going to respect or care about you. Hint : Congress hearing, Nanga karke marenge wahan ish baar but i am more concerned about Kamala harris because she has no idea what POK or Indian Kashmir problem is and its tricky situation for India considering her alignment with the Omar and Jayapal (Radical Islamist). On the other hand Trump is not going to interfere on our internal matter at all.

@pawanjain : I have watched this small seminar, she was clueless when Pakistani representative raised the Kashmir question, she end up talking about POK human rights drama.

and Kamala Harris’ words on the abrogation of Article 370 should alarm New Delhi: “We have to remind the Kashmiris that they are not alone in the world. We are keeping a track on the situation. There is a need to intervene if the situation demands.”

On H1B Visa : Biden is best bet as Trump policies are really bad as far as India is concerned. India could have used this crisis as opportunity because Brain_Drain is serious concern but bureaucracy is pathetic in India, No matter who sitting at the Centre.

On Trade-Deficit fiasco : Again Biden is best bet.

Uniform Civil Code is on cards so fingers crossed.

I am more interested to see if Biden change US policies on Iran_Nuclear_Deal. Trump fucked up India's interest there by ditching the Iran deal or should i say its failure of our bureaucracy. India need Iran in context of Afghanistan and middle east unless we gets hold of POK which seems unlikely.

 

I think it's too early to frame an opinion about the President of the US. I have seen that most of the times US Presidents don't stick to their ideologies that hard as much as they promised in their campaign speeches. Yes one thing I can agree to is that the Narrative of the whole World would once again change if Bidden wins(which seems most likely as per the current scenario). While the world started to tilt a bit towards far-right due to almost all major countries having right-wing ideology Presidents/ Prime Ministers would now shift towards the center as the US exerts a lot of pressure on world Politics. One thing I would like to see about Bidden is how he handles China. Even though he has promised that he would restore it's relation-back with China but I think they should come to some compromise from the Chinese end too. China has gone way too far in non-liberalism while expecting everyone to be liberal towards it.

About relations with India I don't think it matters much except for the fact that there would be slightly less right-wing activism. It's because US can in no way support Pakistan's claim on Kashmir at the UN due to terrorism in Pakistan and neither can it substantiate India's claim on it due to global geopolitics. So things would remain the same they were in Kashmir for the last 70 years. I am talking primarily about POK.

Talking about the Uniform Civil Code I personally like the idea of it but if it's made merely as per the fit and measures of Hindus, tensions would obviously escalate in the country once again. I think this is the reason why RSS and BJP might be having a dispute over it.

About H1B visa, I think we have a bigger problem posed by the BJP's Haryana Government:

Bill providing 75% reservation in private jobs to people from the State of Haryana passed in Haryana Assembly. : ANI

Now forget about international immigration you even will have to look forward to what happens to domestic migration. I am not concerned about any other city but Gurgaon and Faridabad are obviously the major Economics Hubs of the country.

[JSRAW]

Russia (cryo engine)

It was blessing in disguise for ISRO. I don't blame Russians tho, as they were in pretty bad position back then due to over reliant on US's Aid

I think it's too early to frame an opinion about the President of the US. I have seen that most of the times US Presidents don't stick to their ideologies that hard as much as they promised in their campaign speeches.

Fair enough, but i think you are underestimating Democrats and the incident i mentioned it was not related to campaign speech but Congress hearings. They are different breed when it comes to Human rights, social outfits, overall i would say hypocrite. Although i am not worried much as its completely different from the foreign policy but i believe India is going to get a lot of bad press worldwide if Dem ruling USA and NDA sitting at the center, it was already bad during UPA tenure (rape capital etc).

One thing I would like to see about Bidden is how he handles China. Even though he has promised that he would restore it's relation-back with China but I think they should come to some compromise from the Chinese end too. China has gone way too far in non-liberalism while expecting everyone to be liberal towards it.

On China, in short term he's not going to be as tough as Trump but Biden is wise enough to understand that China is threat to their hegemony so he will try to work toward strengthening their ties with existing allies unlike Trump, who already pissed off Japanese over tariffs threats and who should pay more  for the US military bases in Japan And Korean already fed up with the trump's childish behavior when dealing with North korea crisis. Even Aussie administrators don't have any favorable opinion about Trump.

Talking about the Uniform Civil Code I personally like the idea of it but if it's made merely as per the fit and measures of Hindus, tensions would obviously escalate in the country once again. I think this is the reason why RSS and BJP might be having a dispute over it.

Doesn't matter if its UPA/NDA. State should treat its Citizens equal despite their Cast,Creed,Color or Religions. UCC insures that, without this we are not Secular State but Selective Secular and yeah if you are in favor of Selective Secularism then this bill is Anti Abrahamic religion.

https://www.thequint.com/explainers/uniform-civil-code-explained-what-it-is-and-why-it-matters
https://hillpost.in/2013/08/top-7-reasons-why-india-needs-a-uniform-civil-code/95038/

On Less_right_wing_activism comment in Indian context. I agree it would go down drastically but only in news reporting. I can assure you there would be zero change on ground level. Journalist would keep going into jail, shiv sena, bajrang dal type of organisation would create their usual drama every now n then, Cow lynch is not going to reduce (its happening since our independence, century old problem) and last Hindu-Muslim riots. But hey good news is that there would be no outrage, media coverage or award wapsi so its good thing.

Its never going to change unless India focus on Law and Order. How can we expect decline or control fringe groups/crime when our police force is Understaffed_Underpaid_Overworked. For 1.3 billion Indians we have only 1.9 Million Police force, can you imagine that? If doubling the number seems impossible task then at least match the UN guidelines (222ish Police officers for every 100,000 citizens). It would be a welcome start, after that we could focus on police reforms or fund management etc.

About H1B visa, I think we have a bigger problem posed by the BJP's Haryana Government:

Bill providing 75% reservation in private jobs to people from the State of Haryana passed in Haryana Assembly. : ANI

Now forget about international immigration you even will have to look forward to what happens to domestic migration. I am not concerned about any other city but Gurgaon and Faridabad are obviously the major Economics Hubs of the country.

Greator Noida/Noida and Yogi ki balle balle.  

[AjithBtc]

Have anyone heard of the freedom fighter Birsa Munda. This is the first time I'm hearing about him. One of the popular Indian Amit Shah had garlanded the wrong statue which is an tribal hunter's statue. Me as an anti-Indian not knowing about the freedom fighter is not a big thing, but this Indian should know better about the freedom fighters.

[amishmanish]

Russia (cryo engine)

It was blessing in disguise for ISRO. I don't blame Russians tho, as they were in pretty bad position back then due to over reliant on US's Aid

Blessing in disguise because ISRO has a unique position in terms of being able to do space research having found both a market as well as a purpose. The purpose part is important because that is what ultimately drives the employees to be inventors. This kind of an approach is completely lacking in every other manufacturing sector. We need serious investment in product development for defence and civil purposes. This over-reliance on imports through JVs by private companies is not a solution to the fundamental problem.

By the way, Thank God for Biden looks to have won. Trump is going in with his lawsuits and all. Hopefully there are no surprises anymore.

Have anyone heard of the freedom fighter Birsa Munda. This is the first time I'm hearing about him. One of the popular Indian Amit Shah had garlanded the wrong statue which is an tribal hunter's statue. Me as an anti-Indian not knowing about the freedom fighter is not a big thing, but this Indian should know better about the freedom fighters.

Dude, Everyone has heard of Birsa Munda. Read Bipin Chandra. The tribal rebellions like the Santhal and Munda rebellion were amongst the first armed rebellions against the might of the British. Indian Tribal communities are amazing. And if you ever find a person who identifies himself as a "tribal" from the Chhatisgarh region, NE region etc, it won't take long for you to relalize their big hearts and cool attitude.

[AjithBtc]

Happy Diwali to all friends living on different parts of the world. Hope the light be spread around taking away the dark. Let the festival of light end the people's suffering out of the pandemic.

[reliable]

Happy Diwali to all friends living on different parts of the world. Hope the light be spread around taking away the dark. Let the festival of light end the people's suffering out of the pandemic.

Wish you all a very Happy and Safe Diwali. Hope it bring the good luck, fortune and corona free world in coming time. This has been an exceptional year and all the festivals being modified due to various restrictions and taking precaution due to pandemic. Also, for Diwali had opened a separate thread. Link is below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288917.0

[amishmanish]

There was a discussion in Economy section about US household income which somehow led to the topic of difference between direct transfers to the poor and subsidies to the rich.

I think, Indians are uniquely capable to assess this. In mixed economies like ours, there were multi billion dollar programs of Govt subsidy. This meant that the poor were given access to cheap goods, rations etc through an elaborate system of supplies managed by a mix of Govt and private agencies. The businesses involved were given subsidies for delivering goods to the poor. What actually happened was that all those businesses and agencies ate away the funding. This continued for almost 70 years and now the present govt has changed this system. Transfers are made directly to bank accounts. Failures on other economic fronts notwithstanding, opening bank accounts for billions of poor and actually activating a host of direct transfers has been one of the biggest achievements of the present Govt.

The next best thing we need is for Govt expenditure to be managed and tracked transparently. Bitcoin is eminently suitable for this. While a lot of people say that bitcoin should be a global reserve currency to realize its true potential, i have always felt that Govt spending is one of the best use-cases for blockchain/ bitcoin. Of course they would NEVER do that. Imagine if PNB's loan grants were public knowledge. How would have the likes of Nirav Modi ran away with so much public money at the behest of a few officials. There can be countless applications of this from the payments made to petty contractors in public departments to multi-million rupee public tenders.

[Nihal6443]

Don't call media they are terrorists i am an Indian but i believe our media is shit.

[amishmanish]

@UKprod, This links from the message here. You are what i call the closet-Bhakt. People at this stage want to be proud of their identity, rightly so but don't like to discuss Hindu majoritarianism like all the other "good" people.

It is fashionable to "turn the cheek" and look the other way when Freedom of expression is curtailed in a country and a Govt fudges the number of deaths in a global pandemic. And when someone calls out the majoritarianism, they are subject to the typical rhetoric about "Can't I be proud of my Hindi identity?"

You had to make it a religious issue, didn't you? Don't you feel sometimes that you should reflect on your own thoughts once? I never brought up religion and I was quite respectful of your thoughts. Also, think along these lines, such Hinduphobic thoughts in your message are the ones that kind of instigate Hindus to support the ruling party. Maybe if you empathized and stopped targeting Hindus for just being Hindus and/or having a different view, they would be open to parties other than the ruling party. But everyone seems to be targeting Hindus and are equating Hindus with the ruling party, including you my dear friend. Let's be tolerant of all religions.

LOL @ Hinduphobic thoughts. This is about the government doing everything in its power to curtail democracy and a core group still supporting (along with a pliant media). The type of people who were arguing about state-center responsibility when Moduji was saying "Didi-O-Didi" while people were dying on roads for lack of oxygen.

These people will blame the state governments, indians and the population, but won't question Moduji's inept leadership. That is when it becomes about "religion". Nobody is out to shame Hindus. Hindus have shamed themselves enough in this whole episode.

[JSRAW]

@amishmanish

What's wrong with the hindu majoritism or any kind of majoritism per se? After all democracy is all about majority, right? Identity politics play big part in the India and its a big reality. Before its was Caste-Muslim-Regional block, as result we got fair amount of coalition gov and last one was corrupt af but in the last 2 general election Modi changed the dynamic by turning caste into religion. Opposition can counter this with better product, no one is stopping them but of course first they need to work on the ground. And i really don't know what makes you say that they are undermining democracy. Regional powers showing their spine and winning elections so it does look business as usual to me tbh. We have limited FOE is in India so no argument there and i don't see it changing ever, at least not in my lifetime.

We should criticize Modi on his failures but we should also remember that Center don't hold any power over States. Centre manage only couple of portfolio for the states (Defence-forgien affairs), nothing else. So if someone pointing out state-center responsibility argument when dealing with covid or any other issue then they are spot on. Playing field should be same for everyone IMO. The way i see it we as a country got complacent when covid cases went down and then second wave came, it was collective failure for all of us which includes Centre-States-Citizens.

I completely agree that overall casualty figures are under reported but i can't believe that half or millions of people died and all political rivals came together on this issue just to hide casualties reports and media also supporting them? I highly doubt it.

[amishmanish]

@amishmanish
What's wrong with the hindu majoritism or any kind of majoritism per se? After all democracy is all about majority, right?
--snip--\
And i really don't know what makes you say that they are undermining democracy.

India as a nation is built on the ethos of plurality and "Unity in Diversity". The unique position and strength of Indian democracy has always been the fact that religious minorities have never been subject to a compulsion of conforming to the majority's point of view. This has also been because the Hindus have been tolerant and big believers in constitution rather than religion based outfits to assert themselves.

I don't know if you have followed mainstream media, SM etc over the last 7 years but under this Govt, this dynamic has changed dramatically. More and more Hindus are told that they are in danger, especially from Muslims and Christians. This is an extremely dangerous path. It started with the silence on lynchings, cow-vigilantism and open demonization of Muslims in the media. What to say about the troll armies on Facebook, Whatsapp and their continual projection of Modi/BJP as the only savior against a tide of Beef-eating, Love-Jihading, dangerous Muslims.

These are the reasons that I think this Govt has undermined democracy in ways we never thought possible. Some people disagree and think that people like us are being alarmist to be so anti-BJP. Frankly speaking, I think if this Govt continues down this path, we will be staring at an obnoxious country of majoritrians that will be a pale shadow of the India that was respected for its democratic credentials through the past decades despite its limited economic or military might. Then again, I also have hope that democracy as a concept is resilient and sheer geo-political compulsions will save India from the Modi-Shah juggernaut of absolutism.

We should criticize Modi on his failures but we should also remember that Center don't hold any power over States. Centre manage only couple of portfolio for the states (Defence-forgien affairs), nothing else. So if someone pointing out state-center responsibility argument when dealing with covid or any other issue then they are spot on.
--snip--

No they are not. It was the responsilbility of central institutions to track the virulence, spread and mutation of the virus through genomic studies and a scientific approach towards managing the epidemic. Instead, Modi and his minions were busy in celebrating his personal brand and vaccine diplomacy while declaring victory over Covid.
Mumbai and Maharashtra had been struggling throughout the past year. Instead of exploring the possibility of a more virulent strain, BJP was busy in trying to single out the Thackeray Govt for "mismanaging" Covid. Taling about State-central power distribution is simply an argument to make an excuse for refusing to see that Modi was being a megalomaniac while Shah was probably busy plotting a Madhya Pradesh for Maharashtra.

[JSRAW]

India as a nation is built on the ethos of plurality and "Unity in Diversity". The unique position and strength of Indian democracy has always been the fact that religious minorities have never been subject to a compulsion of conforming to the majority's point of view. This has also been because the Hindus have been tolerant and big believers in constitution rather than religion based outfits to assert themselves.

Practicing secularism, maintaining diversity, following constitution, law and order are not only majority's responsibility but every Indian's responsbility. Although majority will continue to do so because its in their DNA despite facing ethnic cleansing and becoming refugee in their own country (Kashmir +North east -Reang or Bru Tribe etc). IMO Parsis, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhist, Christians are the real minorities but according to media and intellectual apologist. Sunnis Muslim (majority) are the real minority and minority in minority Shias (Ismailis, dawoodi bohra, jafferies -tweler-) are irrelevant in Indian polity because they always supported BJP silently and came out openly in 2014 and 2019, along with some Sunnis too, BJP muslim voteshare doubled in last 2 General election. There must be some reason, right? Although its still low but they started making inroads into Muslim community as well.  

I don't know if you have followed mainstream media, SM etc over the last 7 years but under this Govt, this dynamic has changed dramatically. More and more Hindus are told that they are in danger, especially from Muslims and Christians. This is an extremely dangerous path. It started with the silence on lynchings, cow-vigilantism and open demonization of Muslims in the media. What to say about the troll armies on Facebook, Whatsapp and their continual projection of Modi/BJP as the only savior against a tide of Beef-eating, Love-Jihading, dangerous Muslims.

I don't subscribe to Ravish-Rajdeep-Arnab kind of journalism tbh but i do volunteer work here n there and spent considerable amount of time in UP, J&K (Valley), Ladakh(kargil) under various initiatives. Only a idiot person can deny that there is no lynching culture over cow-beef etc in India but if you're saying this is only happening in Modi's India then i humbly disagree. I have said this couple of times in my previous posts, in my understanding its social disease- Law and order problem. You can deny this fact but IMHO its century old problem and not going to resolve anytime soon, no matter who sits at the centre (BJP or Congress). Unless police reforms comes into play.

Love Jihad is not propaganda tho, my half family is muslim so i have witnessed this countless time. Heck even my better half casually asked me to convert. It started as a joke at first then after some time it got serious, followed by emotional blackmail and irony is our families are friends with each others since ages. She's Yoga instructor and from educated family but kya kare bc conversion bahut jaruri hai after all gaandu ristedaaro ka syapa har jagah hai. You can only imagine what could happen to non-muslim girl.

These are the reasons that I think this Govt has undermined democracy in ways we never thought possible. Some people disagree and think that people like us are being alarmist to be so anti-BJP. Frankly speaking, I think if this Govt continues down this path, we will be staring at an obnoxious country of majoritrians that will be a pale shadow of the India that was respected for its democratic credentials through the past decades despite its limited economic or military might. Then again, I also have hope that democracy as a concept is resilient and sheer geo-political compulsions will save India from the Modi-Shah juggernaut of absolutism.

Unfortunately common folks die on both side but apologists and certain section of media only highlight one side of stories according to their allegiance be it right wing or left. Nothing is going to change on the ground but fearmongering will disappear if BJP lose the election, although its looks tough because there is no option for the voters.

Will start panicking about democracy if BJP gets into political killing like TMC, undermining SC's judgement, facilitate ethnic cleansing like INC.

Just to cheer you up. https://twitter.com/d_jaishankar/status/1408229286213996544

~snip~

Every political party was patting on their own back when cases went down drastically, ish hamam mein sab nange hai.