How often Does Nano Ledger Have a Firmware Update?

[jerry0]

I asked this a while back.  And I remember the case where one person a while back said he couldn't update his nano ledger s firmware because he didn't touch it for over two years or so.  That person had to get a replacement and I believe they were able to fix the issue since they had the seed.



I also mentioned how last time I got a replacement nano ledger s due to the original one not working anymore.  The firmware at the time was 1.6 i recalled when I connected it to my laptop.  But I think a few days later, the updated firmware is now 1.6.1.  Is that still the current firmware version now?  I didn't updated it weeks ago so will update it soon.  As many of you know here, whenever I do a firmware update, it always make me nervous because I read of cases where it bricks or resets etc.  A while back with my original nano ledger s, i had a firmware mcu error but it was fixed.  



Now its always recommended to do the firmware update only if you have the seed with you right?  When I'm out of the country most of the year, I always am hesistant to do any firmware updates because if it bricks or resets, then I would be without it until I get back to the US.  I leave my seed in the US and don't bring it with me when I'm out of the country.



Now the thing is at the moment, I do have my seed with me.  When I was out of the country last year, after I did a firmware update, it was good.  But then not long later, it had a dimmed display.  This had nothing to do with firmware update.  I then didn't touch or open it for months, only to find out it wouldn't turn on anymore.  And I did not have my seed at the time and for a while, I was without a working nano ledger s... but also my seed was in the US.  But when i got back to the US and had a replacement nano ledger s, i was able to restore it with big help to others here but mainly HCP of course.

[jerry0]

Now I want to know is how often does nano ledger do a firmware update?  I think i manually did a firmware update only three times i believe total.  But someone mentioned as long as your firmware was like 1.3 or was it 1.3.1 or higher... then you would not have to worry about not being to upgrade your firmware ever again?  Like if someone has Firmware version 1.6 right now, if say they don't touch it for a few years, would there be a concern years down the line they can't do a firmware update like that person who had a very old nano ledger s firmware and didn't update it for years?  I think nano ledger s fixed this with the update a while back?



Also, is it a more danger if say someone didn't update it for a while and skip to an updated one as oppose to someone doing a firmware update each time?  Example someone who has firmware 1.5 and see there is 1.6 but didn't update it but finally updates it when they see its version 1.7 vs the same person who updates from 1.5 to 1.5.1 to 1.6 to 1.6.1 and finally to 1.7



I will be going outside the US soon again so make sure I update to the latest version before I leave the US right?  And based on previous years... when should the next firmware update be?  I generally stay in another country for half a year or less, then come back to the US and repeat etc.  So whenever I do a firmware update or anything to the ledger... I feel much safer doing it when my seed is with me.



Also I haven't updated ledger live in a few weeks either.  That is the least important thing of all right?  How often does nano ledger s have update for ledger live?  Like once every two weeks or so?  So if you have to do both updates, ledger live and firmware update, which should you do first?  I assume just update ledger live first without connecting ledgers to your laptop first right?  Then connect your ledger s to it and then do firmware update?  Or would it be a mistake updating firmware first with ledger s connected to the laptop... then updating a very old ledger live?



And has there been cases where someone update nano ledger s firmware but did not have the seed?

[HCP]

Now I want to know is how often does nano ledger do a firmware update?

There is no fixed schedule. If you look at the release notes, you can see the dates the various firmwares were released: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010446000-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware-release-notes

As you can see, there is often 6-8+ months (or more) between firmware releases.

And has there been cases where someone update nano ledger s firmware but did not have the seed?

I've done this on a couple of occasions.

[jerry0]

Now I want to know is how often does nano ledger do a firmware update?

There is no fixed schedule. If you look at the release notes, you can see the dates the various firmwares were released: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010446000-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware-release-notes

As you can see, there is often 6-8+ months (or more) between firmware releases.

And has there been cases where someone update nano ledger s firmware but did not have the seed?

I've done this on a couple of occasions.

Hcp, thanks for the link.


Wow so the last update before this was back in November of last year... that was the last time I did the update before my old nano ledger s a bit later went dim and then months later, didn't turn on anymore.




The new nano ledger i got few weeks ago, I didn't update the firmware as I wanted to put the seed in first etc.


But you are saying good chance after updating the firmware now to 1.6.1, then won't be another one for at least 6 months right? 


But if you don't do an update you are still pretty safe from like what happened with that person who years ago didn't do any update for two years and could no longer update the firmware anymore because it was too old?




Yea i recall you mentioned you have done the firmware upgrade without the seed on you.  But i do know you said you know your seed was one hundred percent correct as you done the reset many times.  But you would never recommend this to anyone such as firmware update if the seed is not on you in general right?  I mean when you did it, you probably weren't home or where your seed was but probably an hour drive at most away right?  Such that you would never do this while you are in another city/state or country and do this right?

[jerry0]

HCP or anyone else, I'm going to update my firmware from 1.6 to 1.6.1 today.


I logged into ledger live, then plugged my nano ledger s to it... entered my pin... then click on manager, and click okay to allow ledger manager... I see option of updating firmware to 1.6.1.  I also see my ledger live is old as well and not updated  So I should first update ledger live first... without my nano ledger s connected to it... right?  Then once I do this, update the firmware on the nano ledger s?  It doesn't matter which one i do first right?  Or its always better to do ledger live first?


When I click on update firmware, it will only ask me if i like to do it... then you double click both buttons... then it does everything right?  Do not unplug it while updating firmware or anything like that right?  Do you or anyone else recall how long it takes to do the full update?  I remember the first update I did a while back... the old updates, it required you to unplug it and plug it back in and it was confusing.  But this update, its very simple right?

[Rath_]

But you are saying good chance after updating the firmware now to 1.6.1, then won't be another one for at least 6 months right?  

No one knows. If a critical vulnerability is found, Ledger will probably release another update as soon as possible.

But if you don't do an update you are still pretty safe from like what happened with that person who years ago didn't do any update for two years and could no longer update the firmware anymore because it was too old?

Such a situation shouldn't happen anymore. Old firmware was not able to work with Ledger Live which replaced the Chrome extension. Users were not able to update their firmware to the version compatible with Ledger Live once the Chrome app was shut down. Ledger offered replacement devices afterwards.

So I should first update ledger live first... without my nano ledger s connected to it... right? [...] Or its always better to do ledger live first?

There is no reason why you should disconnect your Ledger during Ledger Live update. It shouldn't matter which one you update first.

[HCP]

- Update Ledger Live, always best to have the most recent version
- Update firmware

It'll be fine if you don't update for a while, the firmware update issue was an issue with Ledger Live not being compatible with old firmwares. You have a very recent firmware, so it isn't a problem. And the update process has changed such that you shouldn't need to disconnect/reconnect etc.

The whole process shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.

[jerry0]

- Update Ledger Live, always best to have the most recent version
- Update firmware

It'll be fine if you don't update for a while, the firmware update issue was an issue with Ledger Live not being compatible with old firmwares. You have a very recent firmware, so it isn't a problem. And the update process has changed such that you shouldn't need to disconnect/reconnect etc.

The whole process shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.

I updated ledger live, then updated the firmware... but now I need to reinstall all the apps?  After firmware updated, it had option to close or reinstall apps.  I clicked close as I was confused why it gave me option to reinstall apps.


I don't see bitcoin, bitcoin cash, bitcoin gold in any of my apps on the nano ledger.  Im on manager tab on ledger live and it doesn't show me having any apps installed.


So i need to install the apps again?  Bitcoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold?  So everytime there is a firmware update, you need to reinstall the apps every single time?

[jerry0]

Also it previously before the firmware update ask me to confirm the identifier.  It was a really long code with a few lines... is that normal?  I had thought it was suppose to be one line only?  It did match my screen, each of those lines.



But right now I need to reinstall all the apps?  When checking ledger site for this update, I thought there was no issue like this?  So everytime firmware update, every time you need to reinstall the apps?

[HCP]

TLDR; Reinstall your apps


Long Version:
Fairly sure it automatically uninstalls apps before a firmware update, so there is guaranteed to be enough room to store the new firmware update on the device storage... previously, you needed to uninstall the apps manually. Now it looks like it will even give you the option of reinstalling everything automatically again.

It's one of the downsides to the limited amount of storage that the Nano S has... however, given that you're not updating firmware very often, it isn't really a big deal. Simply reinstall your apps.

[jerry0]

TLDR; Reinstall your apps


Long Version:
Fairly sure it automatically uninstalls apps before a firmware update, so there is guaranteed to be enough room to store the new firmware update on the device storage... previously, you needed to uninstall the apps manually. Now it looks like it will even give you the option of reinstalling everything automatically again.

It's one of the downsides to the limited amount of storage that the Nano S has... however, given that you're not updating firmware very often, it isn't really a big deal. Simply reinstall your apps.

Hey okay I installed all those apps again, btc, btc cash and btc gold.


I also need to add my accounts... manage my accounts again?  I see the message apps installed successfully.  You can now add your accounts.  Do i need to do this again as well?

[jerry0]

When i click on accounts on the left side, it shows the same thing as before.  So do i still need to add accounts again after i just installed all these apps again?


I assume not right?


I know you suggested I do this last time when i restored the nano ledger s with my old seed... but because all I did was update ledger live and then the firmware, well the accounts shown in accounts is obviously linked to my current nano ledger s right?  Can't imagine i have to add account again here?

[HCP]

Correct, it's just a generic "you can add accounts now if you want to" type message whenever you install any apps to the device.

If the accounts you want to see were already added to Ledger Live, they will not need to be added again unless you either manually delete the account(s) from the Portfolio, or you delete all the application data for Ledger Live (available in the settings).

[jerry0]

Correct, it's just a generic "you can add accounts now if you want to" type message whenever you install any apps to the device.

If the accounts you want to see were already added to Ledger Live, they will not need to be added again unless you either manually delete the account(s) from the Portfolio, or you delete all the application data for Ledger Live (available in the settings).

Okay thanks... but when you restore a seed... you should always delete all those accounts first right?  Then add each one individually?


When i restored my seed not long ago, I recall we deleted all the accounts there right?  Then I added each account manually.


So basically only do that when restoring a seed... but no need when firmware update right?


Do you know why the identifier showed a very long line though?  It was a few lines... i was surprised b/c i thought it was just one line.


Yea i notice the firmware when i did the update, it gave me a few extra kb of space.  Btw, how many apps can you store now on the nano ledger ?  Is it only when you run out of kb?  Because it seem like bitcoin uses the most kb.... like ten times as much as every other app?  Bitcoin seem to use over 40kb but bch and bitcoin gold and others uses like 4kb or so?  And the total space is like over 152kb now but before update it was like 144kb?

[o_e_l_e_o]

So basically only do that when restoring a seed... but no need when firmware update right?

When you update the firmware, your device should not reset, therefore there is no need to change anything on Ledger Live.

Bitcoin seem to use over 40kb but bch and bitcoin gold and others uses like 4kb or so?

All the forks of bitcoin use a significant amount of the same code that bitcoin does, so this code does not need to be installed again. If you were to uninstall the bitcoin app, you would find the BCH app would also take up around 40kb, for example, because it cannot draw on all the shared dependencies from the bitcoin app. You can see here for more info: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005171425-Insufficient-device-storage

[HCP]

Okay thanks... but when you restore a seed... you should always delete all those accounts first right?  Then add each one individually?

No.

When i restored my seed not long ago, I recall we deleted all the accounts there right?  Then I added each account manually.

That was because you wanted to know if your seed was actually correct. Given that it restored the same accounts with same history, then it proved your stored seed was OK. In the future, that isn't necessary.

So basically only do that when restoring a seed... but no need when firmware update right?

No, just don't do it. It isn't necessary at all.

Do you know why the identifier showed a very long line though?  It was a few lines... i was surprised b/c i thought it was just one line.

Because it's long.

All the forks of bitcoin use a significant amount of the same code that bitcoin does, so this code does not need to be installed again. If you were to uninstall the bitcoin app, you would find the BCH app would also take up around 40kb, for example, because it cannot draw on all the shared dependencies from the bitcoin app. You can see here for more info: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005171425-Insufficient-device-storage

I don't think you can actually have "BCH" (or any of the bitcoin derivatives like DOGE, LTC, BTG etc) installed on their own. They all "require" the BTC app to be installed, as they are leveraging the base BTC code.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't think you can actually have "BCH" (or any of the bitcoin derivatives like DOGE, LTC, BTG etc) installed on their own. They all "require" the BTC app to be installed, as they are leveraging the base BTC code.

Huh. I didn't realize that because I don't own or use any of the bitcoin forks, but you are absolutely right according to this link: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035545073. I had just assumed that if you install the BCH app on its own then it would separately install all the necessary bitcoin code, but I guess not. The same seems to be true for all the apps with code based on the Ethereum app too.

Bit of a pain I guess if you want to uninstall bitcoin to free up space for different altcoin apps, and you have to uninstall DOGE, LTC, BCH, BTG, etc., first before you can uninstall the main bitcoin app which takes up the most space. Such is the price you pay for using a bunch of shitcoins though. Stick to bitcoin and there is no such issue.

[bob123]

Btw, how many apps can you store now on the nano ledger ? 

Roughly between 5 and 10
But this only applies to a specific combination of applications. You can find a table on ledger website.

Usually, you'll be at around 4-8, depending on which apps you'll install.

Because it seem like bitcoin uses the most kb.... like ten times as much as every other app?  Bitcoin seem to use over 40kb but bch and bitcoin gold and others uses like 4kb or so? 

This makes sense.
The BTC App is a standalone application. Derivatives like BCH, LTC, ... reuse code from the BTC application and are therefore smaller.

[Pmalek]

Also it previously before the firmware update ask me to confirm the identifier.  It was a really long code with a few lines... is that normal?  I had thought it was suppose to be one line only? 

It is normal, don't worry so much. They were supposed to change the format of the identifier that is shown during a firmware update back in September when version 2.11.1 was released. I assumed that meant making it shorter. Apparently not.

New features
.
.
.
Reformatted the identifier displayed during a firmware update to make it easier to verify.

https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledger-live-desktop/releases

   

[jerry0]

Has there been any firmware update since I posted this thread?  Last time i connected my nano ledger to my laptop was about a month to two months ago.  I do log in to ledger live almost daily though.


But the last time I connected my nano ledger to it, I'm pretty certain I didn't see any firmware update about two months ago?