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Author Topic: Why should we welcome centralized bodies for Bitcoin mainstream  (Read 347 times)
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October 24, 2020, 05:33:38 PM
 #21

If we want to see better adoption of Bitcoin and further development regulation and some kind of monitoring are needed. I wouldn't say that would automatically mean centralisation but from my point of view it would mean better protection and security as well as legal certainty, especially for companies.

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October 24, 2020, 06:11:12 PM
 #22

I do believe we can add a lot of points too here :

- they can handle cases and legal fights with he government and the people in regards to cryptocurrencies

- they can make sure that no one , literally no one has control of mining power

- they can make sure that whales and other holders don't cumulatively influence the price

- they can make sure that bitcoin projects and other crypto projects are not being tackled by the governments out of nowhere and banned overnight

But we are missing something :

This is something that we can only wish when we would be living in a ideal world , a world where there is no corruption and no evil.

Even a single corrupt person in that centralized body can make the whole crypto community suffer , they can influence the price themselves or make laws which would be eventually bad for us.


We don't live in an ideal world , we cannot trust people , that's why it's decentralized in the first place.

Any centralized body feels the need to dominate after a while.

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October 24, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
 #23

A Mainstream adoption as PayPal says is definitely coming soon.
I like the fact that consumers on Paypal will be able to instantly convert their cryptocurrency balance into the fiat currency of their choice at no additional fees. Just as merchants will not have any additional fees, transactions will be made with fiat currency and with current PayPal rates.
The step forward by PayPal to digitization was inevitable. The covid19 pandemic has sharpened banking services.

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October 24, 2020, 11:49:15 PM
 #24

I don't think it is a problem with the centralized company adopting Bitcoin, because to be honest Bitcoin requires a centralized platform
like Paypal to increase popularity and awareness on Bitcoin. As we all know Paypal users are very much, so this could be the beginning
for Bitcoin to be accepted as payment. Even without Paypal accepting Bitcoin is not a problem, Bitcoin will still exist and grow, but maybe
the development is not as fast as if Paypal accepts Bitcoin.

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October 24, 2020, 11:58:51 PM
 #25

What I'm about say will hurt alot of crypto enthusiast but we need to be realistic cause if we by any means we wants Bitcoin and others good cryptocurrencies to succeed in becoming the mainstream we have to open our arms for some centralized bodies which I see Paypal as one of them since we also use centralized exchange site sometime but people are not to use them as wallet or exchange site but for payment.


we need popular platforms to include btc or crypto within their payment system. that is, if we want btc or crypto to become mainstream. anyway, as mentioned, it is not that users can directly send their crypto to another entity. the receiver will still receive the amount in corresponding fiat (ex. USD) and not the crypto payment itself. so somehow, there is some control about the usage of crypto.

I don't think it is a problem with the centralized company adopting Bitcoin, because to be honest Bitcoin requires a centralized platform
like Paypal to increase popularity and awareness on Bitcoin. As we all know Paypal users are very much, so this could be the beginning
for Bitcoin to be accepted as payment. Even without Paypal accepting Bitcoin is not a problem, Bitcoin will still exist and grow, but maybe
the development is not as fast as if Paypal accepts Bitcoin.

let's admit it, the integration of crypto in PayPal will increase crypto adoption. the news itself somehow made a significant impact in btc market. how much more when PayPal users are already actively using crypto within the system? think of the millions of users that are already onboard with this company and if crypto is readily available on this platform, people will try to utilize at some point. if PayPal will be successful in this inclusion of crypto, chance that other big companies will follow through.


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October 25, 2020, 04:42:32 AM
 #26

BUT when they come in and want to become something like a "bitcoin bank" by adopting bitcoin, then that is a big malicious move in my opinion. that is what PayPal seems to be trying to do. they want you to give up the freedom you gained by using bitcoin again and rely on them once more!

I don't think PayPal has a malicious intention of taking away the freedom of Bitcoin users, if they did, they would have been active in Bitcoin field years ago. They simply want to make money just like what they do with fiat. This doesn't mean that their service is good or safe to use, I just don't think there's any malicious intent behind it.
that is my assumption too, they want to get in on the money making train and get their share for now. but at the same time, they are basically acting like a custodial wallet and a "bank" since they don't seem to have any plans on letting their users take the bitcoin out of their account and to their local (eg desktop) wallets where they control the keys after they dumped their fiat.

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October 25, 2020, 05:08:33 AM
 #27

Crypto or Bitcoin was created to be decentralized to give us freedom and now you are asking us to accept it warmly and embrace it being centralized to be on mainstream?
They are making it to gain control and to monitor us it is like asking something to be redesign for it's purpose just to be accepted by society.
But for me it is not that bad unless people would really forget it's main purpose we still have a choice to choose we could still use our own wallet to be decentralized and doesn't need those centralized system since we have been doing well before they even step up and accept Bitcoin.
They aren't forcing us to use them we are free to use whatever wallet we want for our crypto.

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October 25, 2020, 04:03:31 PM
 #28

Bitcoin alone is already a means of payment and it is in direct competition with any form of global payment in the world because of the advantages of transferring money quickly and having small fees when sending large amounts.
Paypal has a much higher cost than Bitcoin. The integration of Bitcoin in Paypal's system helps them benefit from transaction fees.
Bitcoin on Paypal does not lose the decentralization of Bitcoin because not all of us choose Paypal to transfer money.

Talking about the benefit of Paypal for Bitcoin, which is that it is free globally, Bitcoin will become legal because it is regulated in the law, Bitcoin has more liquidity from users on Paypal (this has will cause Bitcoin to rise in price).





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October 25, 2020, 04:18:29 PM
 #29

That is because Bitcoin is lacking support from governments of many countries which slows down the adaptation of this technology. Third parties are backed by governments due to regulation and centralization of it. Bitcoin is already a mode of payment but we in order for it to be accepted by more masses, something should help it acquire more popularity and reliability, third party networks would be a huge help to spread awareness of such technology. I believe doubt plays a huge role why many countries are still against this industry and if something will put trsut in it, it would be influencial and may trigger a motion called domino effect.
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October 25, 2020, 04:42:00 PM
 #30

I understand there are so many merchants that'll allow Bitcoin payments which is great, but I'm not sure it's going to be Bitcoin you'll be paying with. Without full control over the coins, it's just like PayPal created a virtual Bitcoin and allowed you to use it. I'm really curious to find out if the "purchases using Bitcoin" are going to be done over the blockchain or PayPal takes the BTC and gives you virtual ones.
It looks like PayPal will be providing virtual coins and there is not transaction going through the blockchain and with that i really do not want to even it BTCitcoin, they created a trading platform essentially to stay in the business and since they have a much bigger user base they might be thinking that there will be users that will lock their money purchasing their virtual BTCitcoin  Grin.

I am yet to fully understand their business model, whether they will be investing on the behalf of the users because literally it does not make any sense if they are not allowing users to withdraw the coins.

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October 25, 2020, 05:17:48 PM
 #31

You aren't alone in not feeling particularly welcoming.  I'm certainly not giving them any business, Bitcoin-related or otherwise.  But as the same time, the network is open to anyone to join, even if some of us aren't fond of their business practices or their previous conduct towards Bitcoin and users of Bitcoin (which won't be forgotten).

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October 25, 2020, 05:42:26 PM
 #32

I wouldn't call centralization as little sacrifice, unless paypal allow it's user to send Bitcoin to anyone with Bitcoin address and pay merchant from our own Bitcoin wallet directly.
The whole operation will be performed by Paxos which is the owner of Paxos Gold stable coin.

If the price for adoption is that Bitcoin is going to be centralized, I'd rather bid good bye to it. Bitcoin is decentralization. Bitcoin is decentralized or else it is not Bitcoin at all. It is just either a decentralized Bitcoin or nothing at all.

But other centralized apps, sites, payment systems, businesses, etc accepting Bitcoin does not mean Bitcoin is now stripped of its decentralized nature. It does not alter Bitcoin at all. Nothing has changed in Bitcoin.

Paypal is not the only way for decentralization supporters to buy, sell, and make use of their Bitcoin.
The price of the adoption is not centralized mate cause Bitcoin has already gained adoption but if we want it to be mainstream some centralized bodies will step in.

for crypto to be mainstream a little sacrifice(centralization) will be needed
It's a big sacrifice. Bitcoin is here to avoid centralization, it just doesn't make sense to welcome it this way.
I understand it big sacrifice if we consider what the damage the centralized organization can cause but the bond and the love crypto enthusiast had for Bitcoin is strong enough to overcome it.


I understand there are so many merchants that'll allow Bitcoin payments which is great, but I'm not sure it's going to be Bitcoin you'll be paying with. Without full control over the coins, it's just like PayPal created a virtual Bitcoin and allowed you to use it. I'm really curious to find out if the "purchases using Bitcoin" are going to be done over the blockchain or PayPal takes the BTC and gives you virtual ones.
The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.


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October 26, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
 #33

I wouldn't call centralization as little sacrifice, unless paypal allow it's user to send Bitcoin to anyone with Bitcoin address and pay merchant from our own Bitcoin wallet directly.

Paypal will allow such transactions on their platform only if they get a big share of the transaction fees.
Unfortunately the vast majority of Bitcoin users don't mind more centralization,since they don't care about decentralization and independence.They just want to make money.
The "decentralization fanatics" are a minority that might leave the BTC community,if Bitcoin becomes more centralized,due to the centralized entities,which are acquiring more control over the BTC market.


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October 26, 2020, 12:58:41 PM
 #34

Unfortunately the vast majority of Bitcoin users don't mind more centralization,since they don't care about decentralization and independence.They just want to make money.
The "decentralization fanatics" are a minority that might leave the BTC community,if Bitcoin becomes more centralized,due to the centralized entities,which are acquiring more control over the BTC market.

I don't see that happening.  Even if more people are choosing to use Bitcoin in the wrong way, that doesn't directly harm those of us who use it correctly.  Anyone holding their own keys will always be afforded censorship resistance and full autonomy over their wealth.

It's the people who are unwittingly handing over control of their wealth who are going to inevitably get screwed over, have a really bad experience, or generally be left with the wrong impression about how Bitcoin works who are going to end up leaving.  And that's their loss.

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October 26, 2020, 01:33:13 PM
 #35

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.
Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.

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October 26, 2020, 01:40:57 PM
 #36

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.
Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.
Maybe it is due to the widespread of its popularity also. PayPal is a huge network and it is impossible that they do not know about this technology eversince. They probably made studies before doing so, their intention on the other hand is what I would like to question, likewise with many people in this industry. Ofcourse the idea of them aiming for profit will not be removed in our impressions but is that all? We might not be able to get answer from them directly and it is more likely our observations which would generate answer in this question. The platform still is not finalized and is just being tested in some areas at this moment so we cannot really conclude as this early.

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October 26, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
 #37

should we welcome centralized bodies like Paypal or not since its operation will not be different from a centralized exchange and payment site?
there are centralized services on this crypto and we accept them so why not on this one when you said that it wont differ on them . people are verry allergic to centralized systems but they do also use centralized exchange and others .  paypal is not just a centralized platform but its one of the huge and the most reputable among others  . like it or not , paypal wont change thier mind and theres always people that are going to support this because not all are centralized haters and not all are paypal haters . most of all this can help crypto grow big

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October 26, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
 #38

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.
Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.

i have a theory about this.
right until very recently these centralized parties were thinking about creating their own centralized coin and use the hype to sell it to the masses and make a ton of profit while compete with bitcoin.

the thing is, one of them did it sooner than others thinking they could take the market before others join in. the result was mostly a big failure. that new one was called "Libra". Facebook started the hype of this shitcoin in 2017 right when the market was overhyped with bitcoin setting new highs every week. after 3 years it has not yet been released and it is considered dead already.

other companies seeing that big fail changed their direction and are coming towards bitcoin now. because they know creating their own shitcoin is not going to end well.

if Libra succeeded then today we were in a very different situation. we would have seen PayPalCoin instead of this news!

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October 26, 2020, 02:48:48 PM
 #39

I don't think that is necessary nor to decline such a thing because having them is a part of crypto development and that also it gives a positive impact on the crypto space. Besides those bad claims toward a centralized platform, some of them are seem to be good and helping for the growing market.

And I don't see any reason why we should not welcome them. In fact, a lot of trader and investors are using them which give them an option other than choosing decentralized platforms.


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October 26, 2020, 03:06:40 PM
 #40

if Libra succeeded then today we were in a very different situation. we would have seen PayPalCoin instead of this news!

Unless PayPal can demonstrate they're operating full reserve of the BTC they claim to be holding on behalf of their users, there's not much difference in practice between a theoretical "PayPalCoin" and this news.  It still amounts to an IOU on their database that you may not be able to redeem.

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