On a scale 1-10: How mad would you be to see a Bitcoin/Bitcoin Testcoin market?

[BayAreaCoins]

I just was curious if anyone would be upset if someone tried to make a market for Bitcoin and Bitcoin Testnet exchange market for fun.

It's really hard to get a bunch of testnet coins for testing stuff, it'd be nice to be able to buy 20 fast...  The current testnet coin faucets aren't great and it's really hard to find a pool in order to just rent a rig and mine.

I was just thinking about the idea for a Freebitcoins.com/xchange....  I kinda like the idea as long as there are lots of notices and such.  Reorgs seem to be the biggest obvious concern off the top of my head.

I imagine it would be a dust market, but fuck, it'd be nice to be able to get 100 testnet coins fast.

[1715579129]

1715579129

[jackg]

Isn't there a retest mode or something that means uou can create your own virtual chain? Is there a reason you're wanting to do this?

The fees might also outweigh the price of actually buying those 100 testnet coins and if they didn't then there might be a problem.

The only issue I see is people could start hoarding testnet coins assuming there's going to be some value in them or one might be built up unnecessarily by someone with enough funds to make it happen (which might not be much). Then there's the risk of the chin being reset again and I'm not sure if that's likely if it looks to be quite big at some point...

[MusaMohamed]

The Bitcoin market will be stolen and corrupted if exchanges create the pair for Bitcoin/ Bitcoin Testnet. I think the pair would be Bitcoin Testnet/ Bitcoin (as same as pairs for altcoins).

Values of Bitcoin is higher than Bitcoin Testnet so the flip pair does not make sense.

[NeuroticFish]

it'd be nice to be able to get 100 testnet coins fast.

Being in a pretty bad mood, I'd say "go for it!". I guess that the next step would be to see somebody advertise them as perfectly good Bitcoin.
I want to see how mad people will become when a new testnet chain is started, just because "yours" will no longer be the free chain intended for testing.

Remember that for testing purpose 0.01BTC works as good as 100BTC, it's not difficult to adjust the code for that, for testing purpose.
And if one really wants to play with big amounts, there's always the choice of starting own chain.

[Heisenberg_Hunter]

There are quite a few newbies who are still being scammed for testnet coins instead of mainnet coins. Recently someone in the forum spoke about buying a few testnet coins for testing purposes and they somehow managed to receive atleast 1 tBTC from various faucets. Faucets do payout a better amount (i.e 0.1 tBTC) rather than begging over here. If we need large sums of testnet coins, as other said we should be going over with regtest mode rather than depending on tBTC balance. Testnet was meant to be mined using CPUs but with the increasing difficulty due to the inclusion of GPUs, we have no other go rather than depending on regtest coins.

IMO having a market for tBTC will make the newbies even more confusing and many bad actors can try to scam them in the name of selling real bitcoin at a bargain price. Even when I was a newbie, I never really understood the difference between legacy and segwit addresses but since after many months I was able to distinguish between the two. The second problem would be spamming the exchange market by paying a few dollars for tBTC. None would buy 100tBTC by spending $20 or so. If we are going with 50tBTC for $1, the fees would skyrocket and thereby making the whole transaction useless.

Since both mining tBTC and buying tBTC have their own disadvantages, devs are moving over to regtest and finally testing the end result using tBTC. This is how I personally do while learning about transactions.

[mk4]

Just to answer your question:

Why would I be mad or upset about it? As long as it's not mainly being used for scamming, then why not if there's demand for it? Even if I personally don't need it, but if it makes the lives of some people like you better, then why not?

[BayAreaCoins]

Just to answer your question:

Why would I be mad or upset about it? As long as it's not mainly being used for scamming, then why not if there's demand for it? Even if I personally don't need it, but if it makes the lives of some people like you better, then why not?

I agree with this... as long as she's got warning labels all over here too.

[hatshepsut93]

I think getting mad at something like this is against the spirit of Bitcoin, which is the ability to send your coins to whomever you want, for whatever reason. There's no "right" or "wrong" methods to use Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is freedom.

Perhaps what is needed is some changes to testnet, or maybe an alternative testnet where it's easier to solomine coins, or some mechanism that creates coins on demand. I know it's not the same as Bitcoin's mainnet rules, but it would allow for testing other parts of the protocol more easily.

[pooya87]

i would have mixed feelings. a little bit mad that they are scamming people, a little bit sad that idiots exist (both those who created the market and those participating  in it) and a lot glad because it would mean the days of Testnet3 are numbered and it signals move to TestNet4.

it'd be nice to be able to get 100 testnet coins fast.

it would be even nicer if people who aren't competent in programming and are unfamiliar with bitcoin stopped creating applications, so they won't need any coins to test those applications with in first place.

[BayAreaCoins]

i would have mixed feelings. a little bit mad that they are scamming people

No one is saying scam. I think offering a market that is clearly labeled isn't comparable to someone trying to pass off testnets to someone trying to buy Bitcoin.

a little bit sad that idiots exist (both those who created the market and those participating  in it)

Seems kinda rude  ... testnet is cryptocurrency too.  Why can this be the "world currency" and this be worthless, but they are basically the same thing? That makes no sense to me.

Mining power is 99% pushed by greed.  I would bet that testnet gets more stable for people using it when there is more mining power behind it and I bet a market leads to mining power.  Thus making testnet better and easier to use for Testers... Example:  You could rent mining power and easily point it at a service to mine testnet. (I'm aware you could set up your own P2Pool, but it would be a 3 minute task if Testnet had any infrastructure.)  I'm sure there are better examples of why having a solid testing infrastructure could be beneficial, I'm just tired and that was a problem I faced recently.

I don't think coins like Dogecoin would even be a thing if Bitcoin Testnet was done "right".  I'm not 100% sure though.

because it would mean the days of Testnet3 are numbered and it signals move to TestNet4.

That makes it even more exciting kind of tbh... it's like a hot potato!

If stuff shifts to TestNet4 then so would the crowd.  Seems like some additional risk to make it exciting.

it would be even nicer if people who aren't competent in programming and are unfamiliar with bitcoin stopped creating applications, so they won't need any coins to test those applications with in first place.

Haha, I'm sure hacks have happened because of a decimal missed here or there... if people can only test with dust, I could see this as an issue.

Plus, it's good for the imagination to see your application work with large numbers of coins if that what you intend it to do... rather than just be a dust bowl.

It should be noted that I am not a coder... I am, however, fairly familiar with Bitcoin.

Sidenote: Even Pokerstar has an option for buying play chips.

Yikes, one person says they would be 10/10 mad!  The majority of votes have voted that they don't care... which is kind of what I expected.

[Stalker22]

One thing I don't understand. If testnet coins gain value, won't that cause a new testnet genesis block to be generated?

Testnet2 was just the first testnet reset with a different genesis block, because people were starting to trade testnet coins for real money.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet

[gmaxwell]

People monetizing testnet already have made it far less useful.  All those who've engaged in that are anti-social dickwads: This is why we can't have nice things, and instead resources have to be diverted into setting up additional shit for testing that are harder to abuse.

Bitcoin seems mostly along the path to migrating to non-mined testnets that won't be open to this kind of abuse.

[Wind_FURY]

But if Testnet-Bitcoin markets pick up and became more popular, I wonder which would be MORE of a scam, testnet-Bitcoins or forked-shitcoin-Bitcoins, like Bitcoin Cash and its fork Bitcoin Cash SV?

[20kevin20]

It would be kinda interesting, but I have conflicting feelings about it. Like, testing imo shouldn't be something that costs. What happens if a Testnet-Bitcoin becomes worth $1000? Would it be worth the price? Would you pay that much for a testnet coin or wouldn't everyone just create their own testing chains instead?

One thing I don't understand. If testnet coins gain value, won't that cause a new testnet genesis block to be generated?

Testnet2 was just the first testnet reset with a different genesis block, because people were starting to trade testnet coins for real money.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet

I believe the Testnet would remain intact as long as people want to have them valued rather than free. But because everyone else decided Testnet coins should be worth nothing, hence the chain was reset.

[DougM]

I just was curious if anyone would be upset if someone tried to make a market for Bitcoin and Bitcoin Testnet exchange market for fun.

It's really hard to get a bunch of testnet coins for testing stuff, it'd be nice to be able to buy 20 fast...  The current testnet coin faucets aren't great and it's really hard to find a pool in order to just rent a rig and mine.

I was just thinking about the idea for a FBTC's....  I kinda like the idea as long as there are lots of notices and such.  Reorgs seem to be the biggest obvious concern off the top of my head.

I imagine it would be a dust market, but fuck, it'd be nice to be able to get 100 testnet coins fast.

While I don't personally care since I am not a BTC developer, it is interesting that the testnet coins have 'value' to developers yet are hard to obtain my mining or faucets so 'paying' someone to get them actually make business sense from a supply and demand basis. While I voted 'I don't give a F*' I actually understand your case and appreciate it.

[lifeforcepools]

I didn't see any great prospects, but for some reason I decided to take a chance. And as you can see, I'm still here.

[dothebeats]

Mad for doing something insane or mad as in emotion? Because honestly I wouldn't give a damn about it, for as long as those sellers know their boundaries and it's mainly for exchange of techniques, information and other stuff related to development of coins relating to bitcoin. For sure people would be warned that such schemes are flying around, though I believe that most would be educated enough to discern testnet coins between the real ones.

[pooya87]

No one is saying scam. I think offering a market that is clearly labeled isn't comparable to someone trying to pass off testnets to someone trying to buy Bitcoin.

it doesn't matter how it is labeled, as long as something that is designed to not have any value is being sold, that is the definition of scam.

Seems kinda rude  ... testnet is cryptocurrency too.  Why can this be the "world currency" and this be worthless, but they are basically the same thing? That makes no sense to me.

bitcoin being the world currency has nothing to do with testnet-bitcoin being sold!

I would bet that testnet gets more stable for people using

testnet is already stable.

making testnet better and easier to use for Testers.

testnet is already both easy and good to use for testers. i have never had any issues using it.
if you had any issues YOURSELF then please share your issue and lets discuss why YOU are facing an issue. if you are just concerned about the number of people who have been complaining lately, know that they want to get large sums of tbtc so that they can exchange it for some scam token that may have a value someday if it doesn't die. they are not testing anything!

Haha, I'm sure hacks have happened because of a decimal missed here or there... if people can only test with dust, I could see this as an issue.

Plus, it's good for the imagination to see your application work with large numbers of coins if that what you intend it to do... rather than just be a dust bowl.

It should be noted that I am not a coder... I am, however, fairly familiar with Bitcoin.

any application has different layers. imagine if you wanted to test if the car's window button (roll up handle), you just focus on that button not fill the tank with gas and start the car, go in highway and test the button while driving!

in your example the decimal issue is a UI problem, it doesn't even get to backend. to test it, we focus on that part only. there is absolutely no need to create a transaction and broadcast it to test something as simple as this. all it takes is a good code, preferably following IoC principle then we write test cases that are testing the edge cases on the UI thread only. then the same tests on backend but this time it only accepts int-64 instead of decimal (decimal only exists in UI) and similar edge cases are tested there too. same with any other part.
then all these parts are joined together and work like a well oiled machine.

long story short, in my experience whenever a developer is complaining about hardness of a certain test, that's because their code is bad and needs a big refactor.

[pixie85]

Just to answer your question:

Why would I be mad or upset about it? As long as it's not mainly being used for scamming, then why not if there's demand for it? Even if I personally don't need it, but if it makes the lives of some people like you better, then why not?

I also don't feel like there would be any reason for people to be mad about it.

The only downside is it would create more confusion on the market similar to what BCH managed to do when it was advertised as Bitcoin's successor and sold as Bitcoin on Roger Ver's website. I'm pretty sure some people would buy/hold these coins thinking they are getting the real thing.

[BayAreaCoins]

something that is designed to not have any value

Isn't Test-net designed almost just like Bitcoin?