Use centralized exchanges, don't use P2P, my recommendation

[iamsheikhadil]

Hello my Indian brothers and sisters. Hope y'all doing well.

We all know websites like localbitcoins and paxful where we buy and sell bitcoins and other cryptos for fiat to our banks.

A few weeks ago, something happened that I have never seen before. I know someone who did a transaction with a person who had good reputation on a P2P exchange and the trade was complete.

After few days, his account was blocked by cyber police because the money he received from the other guy had fraud amount in it.

Days passed by, money was stuck in account. After providing proofs and stuffs, they finally unfreezed the account.

This was a lesson. Hence, I recommend everyone to not do P2P transaction because you don't know who the other person really is. They can be fraud or anything. Better use centralized exchanges so that you are safe and you have records of transactions!

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[iamsheikhadil]

Yes P2P is vulnerable for buyer and seller both. That's why sites that offering P2P they have to do the necessary security checks. Just likes buyers security problem as you explained your friends story I saw a incident where buyer send the INR to seller by UPI and received USDT from the seller and then the buyer applied chargeback in his registered bank.

I used one P2P site where buyer and seller both have to deposit their respective buying and selling currencies/coins in the sites Wallet. The site then work as a mediator and complete the trade. This way fraud activity can be restricted (not fully)

Well, it's very hard when it comes to disputes between trades in P2P. Because there are no proper laws, you can't even do a police report properly if someone scams you. Even in mediator sites, the most they can is a police complaint. Better to just use a centralized exchange so no fear of fraud

[tranthidung]

I have a friend who did a transaction with a person who had good reputation on a P2P exchange and the trade was complete.

After few days, his account was blocked by cyber police because the money he received from the other guy had fraud amount in it.

Days passed by, money was stuck in account. After providing proofs and stuffs, they finally unfreezed the account.

What is the payment method your friend used to trade with the reputatable trade partner?

Regarding to the trade partner, there are some factors you have to consider:

• Trust score: You said the trade partner is reputable but how many trust score/ feedback that one has?
• On Paxful, the platform allows user to submit and import Trust score from other P2P platform. Note that for such trade partners, there will be a warning message on profile page about imported trust scores.
• Age of account: is it a year-old account or a few weeks or few months account.
• Total trade counts have been traded and total amount of BTC have been traded in history
• The favorite payment method: I can say scammers (especially with fraudulent, money laundering activities) will have their favorite payment methods are bank transfer or credit cards. They tend to trade with huge value (in fiat) for each trade.
• The margin or rate of orders: they try to create offers with margin or rates that superb attractive (too good to be true, in other words). If you are greed, you will open trades with them. Troubles to come!

Don't be over-greed and don't blame on platform or anything. Re-assess your trading behaviour and avoid same mistakes.

This was a lesson. Hence, I recommend everyone to not do P2P transaction because you don't know who the other person really is. They can be fraud or anything. Better use centralized exchanges so that you are safe and you have records of transactions!

Sure. It is a valuable lesson but each type of exchange or marketplace has different pros and cons. Even on a same exchange or marketplace, each payment method requires different trading skills and risk management.

Each period has different level of risks. There are period or days when scammers are more actively in giftcard trades, example. If you realize such, let's halt your gift-card trades and wait for other days.

Choose the one that fits your knowledge, skills, profit-risk management!  

[Crypto Carabao Group]

First, localbitcoins and paxful ARE centralized exchanges, with KYC. So, before posting such FUD, the OP should get the basic terms right.

It's true that Paxful has been a premier site where scammers hang out since it began, and LocalBitcoins can't catch all the scammers either.
We don't recommend those, because there are much better alternatives, such as for example HodlHodl.com.

The OP argument against P2P is a red-herring fallacy, because the issue he warns against is the danger of certain fiat payment types, which he falsely presents as danger of P2P exchanges.

I think all who can reason above the childish level can see the difference, but if you can't, definitely follow the OP FUD advice.

For the record, the only existing true P2P, non-custodial, truly decentralised BTC-fiat exchange is the Bisq.network, which we recommend.

Unfortunately, only 2 of the OP's "Indian brothers and sister" have even tried Bisq since it began in 2016, and 100% certain the OP wasn't 1 of the 2.

[Melloiga]

The OP argument against P2P is a red-herring fallacy, because the issue he warns against is the danger of certain fiat payment types, which he falsely presents as danger of P2P exchanges.

Actually no. This issue is about P2P exchanges and not about fiat payments.

But most importantly it is about scammers hacking/using someone else's bank account to make payment to buy BTC. And when this happens, the person who received the payment in their bank account is the one recognized as being the hacker and stealing the money.

And therefore they end up getting their accounts and funds getting freezed.

But this is why there was a discussion as to what safe practices to follow whilst trading P2P.

Which is why OP came to the conclusion that it is better to use centralized exchanges because these exchanges use their own accounts to make/receive payments.

And there by securing the buyer/seller of not getting blamed of stealing anything.

If your platform and or similar services have a way to protect the users from these type of scams then more people might start using it.

[Crypto Carabao Group]

The OP argument against P2P is a red-herring fallacy, because the issue he warns against is the danger of certain fiat payment types, which he falsely presents as danger of P2P exchanges.

Actually no. This issue is about P2P exchanges and not about fiat payments.
...

Actually, your post above is also entirely about certain types of fiat payments, and your discussion in the other thread derailed almost entirely into specifically bank (fiat) transfer payments, and the FUD surrounding them.
(This was really the most sensible post in that discussion.)

We don't make any extra money if more users come to P2P exchanges we recommend, but centralized exchange owners DO make A LOT more money if they can FUD newbies to their exchanges.

And it's easy to prove that the red-herring of P2P dangers is falsely being used by those centralized exchange owners to shill their business and FUD the ignorant to their exchanges:
if one simply meets the counterparty and does the same P2P deals F2F using paper fiat in the waiting room of a bank or fiat payment processor, this whole P2P FUD boogyman disappears. 

[Melloiga]

The OP argument against P2P is a red-herring fallacy, because the issue he warns against is the danger of certain fiat payment types, which he falsely presents as danger of P2P exchanges.

Actually no. This issue is about P2P exchanges and not about fiat payments.
...

Actually, your post above is also entirely about certain types of fiat payments, and your discussion in the other thread derailed almost entirely into specifically bank (fiat) transfer payments, and the FUD surrounding them.
(This was really the most sensible post in that discussion.)

We don't make any extra money if more users come to P2P exchanges we recommend, but centralized exchange owners DO make A LOT more money if they can FUD newbies to their exchanges.

And it's easy to prove that the red-herring of P2P dangers is falsely being used by those centralized exchange owners to shill their business and FUD the ignorant to their exchanges:
if one simply meets the counterparty and does the same P2P deals F2F using paper fiat in the waiting room of a bank or fiat payment processor, this whole P2P FUD boogyman disappears. 

Clearly you're not from India and you don't know how things go here.

But I can assure you that these are not FUDs and the thread I made was just for people to post their suggestions on how to go about trading P2P safely.

I don't want to get into argument with you because you don't live here. Come here if you can and start trading P2P using banks online and F2F too if you dare and see what happens.

Good luck with your client and I hope more people start using it in India. But you really have to ask yourself why people are not doing it?

Like I said, you have to find a way to make it more safe, so that the person trading using it don't get into trouble later.

[Crypto Carabao Group]

And it's easy to prove that the red-herring of P2P dangers is falsely being used by those centralized exchange owners to shill their business and FUD the ignorant to their exchanges:
if one simply meets the counterparty and does the same P2P deals F2F using paper fiat in the waiting room of a bank or fiat payment processor, this whole P2P FUD boogyman disappears. 

Clearly you're not from India and you don't know how things go here.
But I can assure you that these are not FUDs and the thread I made was just for people to post their suggestions on how to go about trading P2P safely.
I don't want to get into argument with you because you don't live here. Come here if you can and start trading P2P using banks online and F2F too if you dare and see what happens.
Good luck with your client and I hope more people start using it in India. But you really have to ask yourself why people are not doing it?
Like I said, you have to find a way to make it more safe, so that the person trading using it don't get into trouble later.

Clearly you have not traded very much, including in India, which might be why you want to project your fears to others. It's easier to be scared, if others can be convinced to be scared with you.

 Neither have you walked in our shoes.
Our associates have traded P2P for years, in the surrounding Asian regions, some of which are real authoritarian and totalitarian regimes, such as Vietnam and Russia, where one can get a lengthy prison sentence simply by paying someone with bitcoins.

You have to ask yourself why so many people are using P2P exchanges, such as Bisq, in US, all over Europe, in Brazil, including using bank transfers?
https://bisq.network/markets/?currency=btc_usd
https://bisq.network/markets/?currency=btc_eur
https://bisq.network/markets/?currency=btc_brl

Supposedly, Indian unified electronic payment systems are the most advanced in the world. If they can't be used safely to trade P2P in India, maybe it's the Indian payment systems that need to be made "more safe", rather than P2P exchanges?

If you require absolute safety, centralized exchanges will not save you, as any user of a hacked centralized exchange can testify.
If you require some nanny centralized authority to assume all the risks for you, we suggest that you should stick to fiat and related regulated trade "for your safety", rather than FUD others to be scared with you.

Bitcoin was made to be traded P2P.