Warning by Coinbase of Treasury Rule Change for KYC All Addresses. Poll! :)

[Lucius]

the biggest thing is that if the usa tried this, most usa companies and citizens drop it (or go dark) and when the rest of the civilized nations adopt bitcoin the usa will be left far, far behind.

I would not bet that other civilized nations will not follow the same path, not perhaps because it is the right solution, but everyone knows what pressure the US is willing to take towards others to accept some things. I'm sure Russia, Iran or North Korea won't care what the US says, but the EU is another story and I'm pretty sure they would pass an identical or similar law.

The same goes for Japan or India who dancing exactly the way the US plays, so I really hope this doesn't work, because as you say, even with the best will of every user, it won't be possible to prove origin and ownership.

[coolcoinz]

After reading that long post on the previous page I feel like most of the problems OP had (and potential screwups that thankfully did not happen) came out the way you followed government requirements. In short, they asked you to report all your coin transactions and you spent a lot of time to satisfy them, but if they wanted to they could say the evidence was falsified or something and screw you over. For this reason I don't report anything, ever, and simply choose the way of making sure they can't track me and prove that I own coins instead of trying hard to make them happy against all odds.
As for the plumbers and people who come into the house, I had that question many times and told my wife that if someone sees my computers and stuff she's to tell that I'm into it, programming or something, but she doesn't know what that is. We avoid the word cryptocurrency during social gatherings. So far so good.

[cr1776]

One side effect will be to keep people in bitcoin and not trading it in and out.  Long term, that is good for bitcoin.

I'll be surprised if it happens now. Maybe with a Biden administration, yes.  December or January, doubtful.  Such a rule would only help the Biden admin, and hurt freedom, so it seems unlikely Trump would do it. Deep state "regulators", DC "elite" and the like, perhaps.  Trump has decreased regulations consistently for nearly 4 years, what would be the logic for him to reverse course?  Sure, some of the long time DC folks would want it, but an outsider?

Troll freaks all over the world want to know what everyone does that every single hour of the day with every single penny they have so they can skim some.

Taproot and other improvements can't come soon enough.

[Searing]

I think it's a crazy idea and very unfair to Bitcoin holders. Then again, I don't think they'll be able to enforce it because there are international exchanges where people would be able to exchange their BTC without confirming the ownership of the wallet.
It could push the price down significantly, but only temporarily. Bitcoin would recover anyway, as it always does.
But I hope the US won't go for it or it would get overruled by the new administration.

In all fairness, I can't see the rule if it passes to by the U.S. Treasury under the Trump Administration to do this as actually staying in place when the Biden

The administration is sworn into place. However, the rule could sit there for quite a while and 'confuse' the BTC/Crypto Universe just by oversight or neglect

on fixing such by the new Biden Amdinatraion. It is not like they don't have a lot of other stuff, in their view that they want to address ASAP!

So, we could be in for some 'neglect' on this and 'confusion' before something was resolved on such idiocy. I mean so many of these 'dubious' regulations

and executive orders with the main goal of just messing up the Biden Administration taking over the Executive Branch....we could be in for more that a few

months wait ..till this would be 'likely' overturned/resolved.

Brad

[cryptoboss2020]

Ta the End of the january btc Price might be 30k+
Many Will Buy then and its a tax trap!!

[cryptoboss2020]

What do folk think of the likelihood of Steven Mnuchin of the Treasury Department under the lame-duck Trump Administration and Coinbase CEO's concern?

of them putting in place a requirement that any crypto going in/out of a USA exchange must have KYC to custodial wallets and/or where ever. In other words,

I would have to do a KYC on the fact I own my wallet in some manner. I've no frigging idea how that would work on my paper wallets.

https://www.btctimes.com/news/us-treasury-may-crack-down-on-self-custody

So a couple of things come to mind.

1) Treasury Department does above, the next Biden Administration simply undoes the requirement from this lame-duck attempt by Truwhip Administration.

2) Treasury Department does above, and as some commentators have suggested only a legislative fix (hard if Republican Senate) could undo such. Thus,

     if gridlock was to ensue...would take years to undo this.

3) The next Biden Administration, lets it stand, or can't undo such without bi-partisan legislation (gridlock likely under current Senate)
    
Obviously, this is much like China tried to do with their exchanges back in the day, and backed way off and  undid most of their rules eventually, IMHO, to

me it would just mean USA exchanges would be 'dead' to me and I'd do my 'legal' KYC stuff with an exchange in another country that did not require

this extra USA step.

What do you think of all of this? I think the odds of this are quite high, Trump has been doing dubious things with pardons and executive orders

I don't think he is even fully warmed up yet.

Also, IMHO, if this was to stand for any length of time I'd think we'd probably be back to $9-10K Bitcoin again or lower..just from the clusterf*ck or

damn near impossible enforcement if you wanted to stay a USA exchange. If such came to pass, and the Biden Treasury department left this in

place, it would be easier IMHO for Coinbase www.coinbase.com to locate out of the USA, then for them to keep track of every address on

your Trezor wallet for in/out dust of any BTC/Crypto.

Add, hopefully, more information you come across on the thread

take the poll on BTC price if this was to be implemented likely date of Jan 1st, 2021 if I was putting it out on the world in a lame-duck administration.

so it goes

Bitcoin/Crypto always drama!

Take the poll on what you think BTC price would be if the above was implemented.

Brad

Its so simple Trump administration was giving out big money.
And Biden administration Will just take it from You.
So simple  

[Searing]

Ta the End of the january btc Price might be 30k+
Many Will Buy then and its a tax trap!!

Indeed, in 2014, after going to my CPA for my taxes to get done for 2013, I started mining like hell as a BTC newbie in my basement from Oct 18th, 2013

onward till 2014 and had accumulated a hoard of BTC. Anyway, got my taxes done by her (the CPA) in February 2013. Then the IRS, being the assholes,

that they are, in frigging 10 days...I remember looking was announced 10 days before taxes were due for 2013 the  IRS added the mining rules

as income and the rest of such.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

At the same time between Feb 2013 and May 2013..my Banker ...saw I had used a  wire xfer

of over 10k for BTC miners overseas, and informed SEC that I was an 'evil' drug dealer or something because in 2013 all BTC was 'evil' to bankers.

I got out of such after the banker tried to screw me with prison while the SEC guy was on speaker-phone by saying he bet I did not do taxes. Thus the CPA

tax saved forms above saved my ass again! Fun times, called him an asshole and slapped down revised Taxes for 2014..the SEC guy was why am I  here?

Anyway, sometime before the banker showdown, I go back to the CPA....she reads rules and starts laughing and keeps saying I'm like a Farmer..yeah,

I was confused...but the IRS rules state sure I had to treat mining as income (unlike before when you just had to HODL and pay zip on my previous

unmodified tax return already in)...but I also got to take equipment depreciation and she set me up as a business...so anyway at the end rather than

pay no taxes...I got like $4k back in tax refunds as the small business angle...no cap gains, because I held on to BTC....so trying ....as hell..it worked out,

If the CEO of Coinbase is correct and this dubious rule does come to play to regulate KYC via exchanges on addresses etc, it also IMHO will work out

but will be the usual cluster***k of confusion like my above issues..for more than a few months till resolved in 2021 is my guess.

Anyway, my point is, lots of FUD, stuff, IRS  and other things COULD be tossed out in as little as 10 days or less before the Biden Administration comes into office in

2021 just to play monkey wrench in the BTC/Crypto world and to make the Biden Administration deal with this.

I myself, again, IMHO, think that it is likely the CEO of Coinbase is right..and his rumor is likely true (hope I'm wrong though)

and such a cumbersome tracking KYC overreach is likely to be put in place..but again, IMHO, it will be more likely to be killed eventually by the

new Biden Administration..though that may take time..and this FUD may affect BTC price recovery (like in 2014 with IRS rule) for the first 6 months

of 2021.

So BTC/Crypto prices could just sit on hands and go sideways for a few months, again, till resolved by real adults.

So remember, I've seen this probably 1/2 dozen times since 2013...governments

may not be able to stop BTC/Crypto..but they have and probably will use FUD and dubious regulations and laws to muddy the waters on occasion and indeed

this will always affect the price of BTC/Crypto with the uncertainty..so if I am correct and such as the Coinbase CEO says these rules come into play well...

expect a stall in price or dump of price and play the game 'cheap coins' till it is resolved is gonna be my game ...if such is the case...

This use of FUD as a way for big money/govt/super-rich to 'tweak' the BTC/Crypto ecosystem in either a vain attempt at control or a vain attempt to limit the price

pump and speed/or speed of adoption and or influence of BTC/Crypto in the future...always fails. It sucks and is painful and sometimes scary though.

So FUD and FOMO will always be with us, though again, if they pass this regulation it will be a lot more blunt and obvious what the goals are, IMHO,

then in past cases of this kinda thing..at least since I got into BTC/Crytpo in 2013.

Bitcoin: Always doubters...Always drama!

Brad

[cryptoboss2020]

Ta the End of the january btc Price might be 30k+
Many Will Buy then and its a tax trap!!

Indeed, in 2014, after going to my CPA for my taxes to get done for 2013, I started mining like hell as a BTC newbie in my basement from Oct 18th, 2013

onward till 2014 and had accumulated a hoard of BTC. Anyway, got my taxes done by her (the CPA) in February 2013. Then the IRS, being the assholes,

that they are, in frigging 10 days...I remember looking was announced 10 days before taxes were due for 2013 the  IRS added the mining rules

as income and the rest of such.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

At the same time between Feb 2013 and May 2013..my Banker ...saw I had used a  wire xfer

of over 10k for BTC miners overseas, and informed SEC that I was an 'evil' drug dealer or something because in 2013 all BTC was 'evil' to bankers.

I got out of such after the banker tried to screw me with prison while the SEC guy was on speaker-phone by saying he bet I did not do taxes. Thus the CPA

tax saved forms above saved my ass again! Fun times, called him an asshole and slapped down revised Taxes for 2014..the SEC guy was why am I  here?

Anyway, sometime before the banker showdown, I go back to the CPA....she reads rules and starts laughing and keeps saying I'm like a Farmer..yeah,

I was confused...but the IRS rules state sure I had to treat mining as income (unlike before when you just had to HODL and pay zip on my previous

unmodified tax return already in)...but I also got to take equipment depreciation and she set me up as a business...so anyway at the end rather than

pay no taxes...I got like $4k back in tax refunds as the small business angle...no cap gains, because I held on to BTC....so trying ....as hell..it worked out,

If the CEO of Coinbase is correct and this dubious rule does come to play to regulate KYC via exchanges on addresses etc, it also IMHO will work out

but will be the usual cluster***k of confusion like my above issues..for more than a few months till resolved in 2021 is my guess.

Anyway, my point is, lots of FUD, stuff, IRS  and other things COULD be tossed out in as little as 10 days or less before the Biden Administration comes into office in

2021 just to play monkey wrench in the BTC/Crypto world and to make the Biden Administration deal with this.

I myself, again, IMHO, think that it is likely the CEO of Coinbase is right..and his rumor is likely true (hope I'm wrong though)

and such a cumbersome tracking KYC overreach is likely to be put in place..but again, IMHO, it will be more likely to be killed eventually by the

new Biden Administration..though that may take time..and this FUD may affect BTC price recovery (like in 2014 with IRS rule) for the first 6 months

of 2021.

So BTC/Crypto prices could just sit on hands and go sideways for a few months, again, till resolved by real adults.

So remember, I've seen this probably 1/2 dozen times since 2013...governments

may not be able to stop BTC/Crypto..but they have and probably will use FUD and dubious regulations and laws to muddy the waters on occasion and indeed

this will always affect the price of BTC/Crypto with the uncertainty..so if I am correct and such as the Coinbase CEO says these rules come into play well...

expect a stall in price or dump of price and play the game 'cheap coins' till it is resolved is gonna be my game ...if such is the case...

This use of FUD as a way for big money/govt/super-rich to 'tweak' the BTC/Crypto ecosystem in either a vain attempt at control or a vain attempt to limit the price

pump and speed/or speed of adoption and or influence of BTC/Crypto in the future...always fails. It sucks and is painful and sometimes scary though.

So FUD and FOMO will always be with us, though again, if they pass this regulation it will be a lot more blunt and obvious what the goals are, IMHO,

then in past cases of this kinda thing..at least since I got into BTC/Crytpo in 2013.

Bitcoin: Always doubters...Always drama!

Brad

You guys in USA get some partners in europe or uk Where is very relax to deal with crypto!!

How can you deal with this IRS?  THEY are like big bully mind terror!

[figmentofmyass]

What do folk think of the likelihood of Steven Mnuchin of the Treasury Department under the lame-duck Trump Administration and Coinbase CEO's concern?

of them putting in place a requirement that any crypto going in/out of a USA exchange must have KYC to custodial wallets and/or where ever. In other words,

I would have to do a KYC on the fact I own my wallet in some manner. I've no frigging idea how that would work on my paper wallets.

if the requirement for withdrawals is to prove ownership of the receiving address, you would just whitelist one address in a wallet you control. all withdrawals would go to that address only. from there, you can do whatever you want with the coins.

as far as likelihood goes......i have a feeling some of the more draconian requirements will be scaled back, but that something will be passed during the lame duck session. maybe they'll put the FATF's $1000 travel rule threshold into place.

[Searing]

What do folk think of the likelihood of Steven Mnuchin of the Treasury Department under the lame-duck Trump Administration and Coinbase CEO's concern?

of them putting in place a requirement that any crypto going in/out of a USA exchange must have KYC to custodial wallets and/or where ever. In other words,

I would have to do a KYC on the fact I own my wallet in some manner. I've no frigging idea how that would work on my paper wallets.

https://www.btctimes.com/news/us-treasury-may-crack-down-on-self-custody

So a couple of things come to mind.

1) Treasury Department does above, the next Biden Administration simply undoes the requirement from this lame-duck attempt by Truwhip Administration.

2) Treasury Department does above, and as some commentators have suggested only a legislative fix (hard if Republican Senate) could undo such. Thus,

     if gridlock was to ensue...would take years to undo this.

3) The next Biden Administration, lets it stand, or can't undo such without bi-partisan legislation (gridlock likely under current Senate)
    
Obviously, this is much like China tried to do with their exchanges back in the day, and backed way off and  undid most of their rules eventually, IMHO, to

me it would just mean USA exchanges would be 'dead' to me and I'd do my 'legal' KYC stuff with an exchange in another country that did not require

this extra USA step.

What do you think of all of this? I think the odds of this are quite high, Trump has been doing dubious things with pardons and executive orders

I don't think he is even fully warmed up yet.

Also, IMHO, if this was to stand for any length of time I'd think we'd probably be back to $9-10K Bitcoin again or lower..just from the clusterf*ck or

damn near impossible enforcement if you wanted to stay a USA exchange. If such came to pass, and the Biden Treasury department left this in

place, it would be easier IMHO for Coinbase www.coinbase.com to locate out of the USA, then for them to keep track of every address on

your Trezor wallet for in/out dust of any BTC/Crypto.

Add, hopefully, more information you come across on the thread

take the poll on BTC price if this was to be implemented likely date of Jan 1st, 2021 if I was putting it out on the world in a lame-duck administration.

so it goes

Bitcoin/Crypto always drama!

Take the poll on what you think BTC price would be if the above was implemented.

Brad

Its so simple Trump administration was giving out big money.
And Biden administration Will just take it from You.
So simple  

It is more likely that the 1.2 Trillion dollar tax cuts to the rich on the so-called 'economic' trickle down and massive spending by Trump Administration

would be overturned if the Democrats had their way. Thus, such money would likely still be spent on the current economic crisis and/or social policies

to the middle class and some other widespread ills of the USA. You are right, neither party will actually stop spending money..it is how politics work

now with the Supreme Court and Citizen's United Case saying 'unlimited' political contributions are allowed. Thus them 'pesky' 2 party system leadership

have no control of their own representatives in Congress or wherever..because the more 'radical' you are on the left or right the more outside your state

special interest $$$ you can get..so why compromise as your party may want you to?

So if both parties are gonna blow $$$ like drunk sailors, I'd prefer my tax $$$ to be spent on the social safety net and other programs and not deficit spending

to the top 1% and corporate welfare as it has been the last 4 years.

So it is a matter of politics, where the money is gonna get spent.

Now that Trump has driven out all the 'fiscal conservatives' from the Republican party

and such...well, the economic 'pie' of the USA grows...the 'pie' gets better for everyone as the economy expands or we are so screwed...

for the economy to 'grow' ourselves out of this economic deficit hole due to above and pandemic...economic expansion is the only protection against this

deficit and the likely inflation and IMHO recession around the corner. BTC/Crypto may do well in such, not so much everything else if this does not pan out, IMHO.

This must happen or the USA will have a fun time like Japan and struggle the next decade to get any kind of traction in our economy or growth. Dark Times.

Not that I know squat...but did not see a lot of trickle-down from the beneficiaries of the previous Trump Administration tax cuts and corporate welfare

as I viewed such...so going with option B above and get rid of the above Trump tax cuts and spread it around more in society instead of..a select few.

Again, not that I know squat, but how all this seems to be shaking out for the next 4 years or more. We have to revive the economy out of recession,

tame pandemic, figure out how to grow economy to overcome things we need to do and pay for in society as well as plan for the deficit...and also, at

least in Biden Administration's view, get the country to do a complete 180 on almost all Trump Administration policies in the last 4 years. Man, why anyone

would want to be President of the USA, I've no idea! Daunting tasks ahead as a society here in the USA.

Brad

[hatshepsut93]

Institutional investors that drive this current rally wouldn't mind such regulations, it's not a problem for them to abide to them, especially if they even never interact with Bitcoin's blockchain and just keep their coins on the platform. They still could consider it as negative news because it would hurt some retail investors and just users, but who knows if they care about such things or not.

So, market-wise, the impact of such regulation is not exactly clear - it would probably cause some panic, but nothing too big or long-term. As for the community, maybe it will be a wake-up call to switch towards more decentralized platforms.

[Mike Mayor]

Why doesn't the USA worry about the current problems they are facing... Gee maybe for example their corrupt laws corrupt police. Racism which is so bad it makes South Africa look like a loving place when slaves were here.

None of this is going to happen and you can't tax crypto. Crypto is not money and it never will be. It is something traded privately among the people. It has nothing to do with the government. We reject their money and use our own kind of funding. As long as you not converting to fiat there is nothing to pay. There way to many other problems going on in the world for them to worry about his. They can't even keep actual violent criminals in prison so how will they enforce this nonsense. I don't feel threatened in the slightest bit.

Maybe if governments behaved themselves we wouldn't need to invent crypto just to keep their filthy clothes off our hard earn labour. When the government stops spending tax money on crap and wasting it then they can have an opinion on "money laundry" and "tax avoidance". Funny how the biggest criminals are always the ones calling out others for minor "crimes"

I don't actually see why refusing to fund a corrupt government is even a crime. We pay tax and we expect a certain level of service and we simply are not getting it so why should we pay these criminals?

Knowledge is Good. Ignorance is Evil.
This is all you need to know.

[cryptoboss2020]

Why doesn't the USA worry about the current problems they are facing... Gee maybe for example their corrupt laws corrupt police. Racism which is so bad it makes South Africa look like a loving place when slaves were here.

None of this is going to happen and you can't tax crypto. Crypto is not money and it never will be. It is something traded privately among the people. It has nothing to do with the government. We reject their money and use our own kind of funding. As long as you not converting to fiat there is nothing to pay. There way to many other problems going on in the world for them to worry about his. They can't even keep actual violent criminals in prison so how will they enforce this nonsense. I don't feel threatened in the slightest bit.

Maybe if governments behaved themselves we wouldn't need to invent crypto just to keep their filthy clothes off our hard earn labour. When the government stops spending tax money on crap and wasting it then they can have an opinion on "money laundry" and "tax avoidance". Funny how the biggest criminals are always the ones calling out others for minor "crimes"

I don't actually see why refusing to fund a corrupt government is even a crime. We pay tax and we expect a certain level of service and we simply are not getting it so why should we pay these criminals?

Knowledge is Good. Ignorance is Evil.
This is all you need to know.

Well the USA government let the people grow some wealth always then suddenly it will be taken Away one way or another,  2009 Economic crash and mortgage fraud teose fraudsters was not even in jail what have learned? 
Morals dont work as long as you do all juridically correct you do it perfect.

And what have changed now?
Another fraud allegation the biden election!