How to safely store your private keys?

[ico-services]

As the price of Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies) is going up, more and more user start facing the problem of safe keeping of their coins, when the value of them start reaching 6 or 7 figures.
We all know that a smart user holds his own private keys, but how to store them safely?

None of the products currently on the market provide any solution with physical theft.

For example hardware wallets. Yeah, it's high security and password protected, but the recovery seed is on a piece of paper (or on a piece of metal) which offers no protection at all. Same applies to all other wallets with recovery seed and paper wallets. All cold wallets (the most secured wallets) offer no security when it comes to physical theft.

What's stopping criminals form breaking into your house and steeling your recovery seed?
Keep it in a bank vault? Well then the bank or the government has access to it (so it's no better than FIAT), and stuff from bank vaults is also being stolen sometimes.

As I see it, storing of the private keys or recovery seeds is the weakest spot of blockchain security. Bitcoin offers best online safety, but low offline safety. Storing cryptocurrencies is practically as dangerous as storing high amount of cash at home. Since there are more and more crypto celebrities, it's basically a gold mine for criminals, because I doubt that many of these people have bank level vaults and security.

So what is your thoughts? How would you keep private keys safe from physical theft?

[Charles-Tim]

Do you know that theives do not most of the time come to someone's house to steal his money, they have informants that inform them that their is money in the house, this can be known during the process of collecting the money and taking it along to your house. There are many cases the thives will not know where you put the money, but will pressure you to tell them the truth that they know everything about the money and how it got to the house. I am talking about fiat that can draw theives attention to someone.

Bitcoin is different, if you are able to have your privacy online and able to securely save your seed phrase, I think you are good. That is why it can be dangerous for kyc and for people to know you have bitcoin, but if they do not know you have bitcoin and you are maintaining your privacy, your seed phrase can still be properly save at your home and be safe from attackers because they do not link any bitcoin to you not to talk of coming to your house pressuring you to give them seed phrase or private key.

But, how about them finding out while checking your phone or other device? I think that should also be addressed. But as of recent, I have found many people that said theives came to their house, stole phone, laptops and many other devices but left hardware wallet because they do not know what it is. Those kind of theives do not require for phone or device password than to steal it and format it to sell it to another person.  Which means the seed phrase is good if properly saved, he will just have to input it on another wallet and recover his bitcoin as the thives only go away with the phone and format it if you use password probided.. But, I do not know of later, maybe the thives will be smarter.

[ico-services]

Do you know that theives do not most of the time come to someone's house to steal his money, they have informants that inform them that their is money in the house, this can be known during the process of collecting the money and taking it along to your house. There are many cases the thives will not know where you put the money, but will pressure you to tell them the truth that they know everything about the money and how it got to the house. I am talking about fiat that can draw theives attention to someone.

If they happen to know where some crypto millionaire lives, they might target him on purpose. The problem with crypto people is that they keep private keys all the time at their home.

Bitcoin is different, if you are able to have your privacy online and able to securely save your seed phrase, I think you are good. That is why it can be dangerous for kyc and for people to know you have bitcoin, but if they do not know you have bitcoin and you are maintaining your privacy, your seed phrase can still be properly save at your home and be safe from attackers because they do not link any bitcoin to you not to talk of coming to your house pressuring you to give them seed phrase or private key.

There are already lot of people we all know have lot of crypto. All early crypto advocates, all founders of successful crypto companies etc. As price of crypto goes up, more and more people will fall into this category.

But, how about them finding out while checking your phone or other device? I think that should also be addressed. But as of recent, I have found many people that said theives came to their house, stole phone, laptops and many other devices but left hardware wallet because they do not know what it is. Those kind of theives do not require for phone or device password than to steal it and format it to sell it to another person.  Which means the seed phrase is good if properly saved, he will just have to input it on another wallet and recover his bitcoin as the thives only go away with the phone and format it if you use password probided.. But, I do not know of later, maybe the thives will be smarter.

Let's separate dumb-ass thieves from professional thieves. The ones who are professional and know you have crypto will take everything you have that might store private keys. Crypto is actually mainstream enough already, so unless it's some stupid drug  addicts, most likely they will be looking for crypto.

P.S. You are mostly relying on that you'll get lucky, which is kind of reckless attitude, when I'm specifically speaking about that small chance where you want.

[Welsh]

You don't have to store your private key, even if hardware wallets supply a piece of paper to write it down, you are not required too. However, there comes a thin line of good security from physical threats, but there's also the security of guarding from memory loss, and dementia. As you get older, you may be one of the unlucky people to get dementia, and that seed you have written down might mean nothing to you. You might think, you'll just be able to search online for the answer, but those suffering from dementia or even freak accidents, can forget family members, and even themselves, let alone what a search engine is.

Luckigly, dementia is something that's usually spotted early on, but having an accident, and suffering memory loss is a real issue, that might just be as likely as getting stolen from, depending on where you live. For example, if you drive every day, you probably are more likely to get in a car accident, than be the victim of theft.

Obviously, we try to safeguard as much as possible, and I see your concern. However, there's also a point where you have to draw the line. Personally, I recommend relying on a third party here....I know the forbidden words when it comes to security right? Technically, you can setup a bank account, with high security without internet access, and it is covered up to 85k in the UK, and I believe more in the US? You can have multiple bank accounts like this, so if anything happens to the bank you are covered, and by limiting access to the bank to in person, and identifying you that way you greatly reduce the chance of being stolen from.

Bitcoin is great, and at its very core YOU are responsible for your money, and I fully support moving away from banks, however there are some trade offs of that. You have to take care of your own security, and unfortunately, you'll never be 100% safe in any given scenario. Unless, you are absolutely 100% sure you'll never give out the password when in danger, and you have no physical presence of the private key or seed, and also you are 100% sure you can trust the hardware that you've used, be it a hardware wallet, or INTEL manufactured parts. There will always be some risk.

If they happen to know where some crypto millionaire lives, they might target him on purpose. The problem with crypto people is that they keep private keys all the time at their home.

The same is true, if its a fiat based millionaire, that's why its commonplace for millionaires in general to have security, especially if they are a public figure. It's also one of the reasons that many millionaires live in "gated" communities, altogether in one place.

[ico-services]

You don't have to store your private key, even if hardware wallets supply a piece of paper to write it down, you are not required too.

It already happened to me once, that a hardware wallet got completely erased with software update and if I hadn't had recovery seed all the funds would be lost. So that would be very stupid.

However, there comes a thin line of good security from physical threats, but there's also the security of guarding from memory loss, and dementia. As you get older, you may be one of the unlucky people to get dementia, and that seed you have written down might mean nothing to you. You might think, you'll just be able to search online for the answer, but those suffering from dementia or even freak accidents, can forget family members, and even themselves, let alone what a search engine is.

Luckigly, dementia is something that's usually spotted early on, but having an accident, and suffering memory loss is a real issue, that might just be as likely as getting stolen from, depending on where you live. For example, if you drive every day, you probably are more likely to get in a car accident, than be the victim of theft.

I find it virtually impossible that you would lose your crypto due to completely forgetting about ever having any. Even if you experience sudden memory loss, your family members will most likely be able to help you figure out that a mysterious code or set of words is private key or recovery seed.

Obviously, we try to safeguard as much as possible, and I see your concern. However, there's also a point where you have to draw the line. Personally, I recommend relying on a third party here....I know the forbidden words when it comes to security right? Technically, you can setup a bank account, with high security without internet access, and it is covered up to 85k in the UK, and I believe more in the US? You can have multiple bank accounts like this, so if anything happens to the bank you are covered, and by limiting access to the bank to in person, and identifying you that way you greatly reduce the chance of being stolen from.

But if you hold your funds in bank account, then you won't profit from price increase of crypto! If you wanna keep money in FIAT, then sure there's no problem, but the whole point here is that you don't!

If they happen to know where some crypto millionaire lives, they might target him on purpose. The problem with crypto people is that they keep private keys all the time at their home.

The same is true, if its a fiat based millionaire, that's why its commonplace for millionaires in general to have security, especially if they are a public figure. It's also one of the reasons that many millionaires live in "gated" communities, altogether in one place.

Actually it's not the same, because "normal" millionaires keep their funds in places where they are backed by 3rd party (usually banks or government) so even if they get physically robbed, thieves will not have access to their funds. They don't keep all their funds in gold or diamonds at home, which is equivalent to what crypto people are doing.

[20kevin20]

Well, depends on how much you want to drag the situation to the extremes.

Seeds deeply engraved in metal could be stored under the ground somewhere in the middle of a garden and I'm quite sure no thief would start digging your garden. If there's anything they'd do (which is also extreme), it's that they'd start searching your ground using metal detectors. In that case, I'm quite sure some steel will not be of importance to them.

There's no perfect storage for your seeds. But now ask yourself, what are the chances a thief breaks into a home to look for a sheet of paper to steal? I'd honestly think putting the seed in between hundreds of other documents/pieces of paper lowers the chances of the seed being stolen drastically.

The thing is, it's hard to create some seed storage method that has no flaw. You could hide the seed in plain sight using steganography. You could hide the seed in some piece of art on a wall. But now ask yourself.. what if you ever have some problem trying to recover the seed using the piece of art you've created? This is where it may be way better and safer to store the seed using metal sheets.

I'd rather use a piece of paper to store my seed than encrypt it one way or another or hide it using something like art.

One thing you could do is placing 12 objects somewhere in your house in a specific order, the first 4 letters of each being the ones from your seed. Like, the first object could be a picture of a cave, resembling the word "cave" from your seed. But in case of a theft, an earthquake, a baby playing around, a cat jumping and messing the order up or simply you forgetting about the objects' meaning means you could lose the recovery of your funds at any point.

Everything has pros and cons. Depends on what kind of risks you want to assume. While basic storage (seed on paper) involves potential theft, the more complicated ones are prone to other disasters.

I find it virtually impossible that you would lose your crypto due to completely forgetting about ever having any. Even if you experience sudden memory loss, your family members will most likely be able to help you figure out that a mysterious code or set of words is private key or recovery seed.

You said you don't think it's safe to store the plain seed text, so how would you be able to recover your seed from a memory loss if it's been hidden very well? I'm not sure how easily the family could help you out. Memory loss is a very, very bad thing to experience.

Actually it's not the same, because "normal" millionaires keep their funds in places where they are backed by 3rd party (usually banks or government) so even if they get physically robbed, thieves will not have access to their funds. They don't keep all their funds in gold or diamonds at home, which is equivalent to what crypto people are doing.

You could store an encrypted copy of your seed in a bank vault, but this method does come with its own risks as well - and the entire purpose of Bitcoin's existence is to remove trusted parties, right? As mentioned earlier, there's no perfect way to do it. You always have to assume a few risks that come with your method of storing it.

The best thing you could probably do is store it in multiple ways. Like, one encrypted copy of your seed at the bank vault, one metal sheet under the ground, one piece of paper somewhere between your docs and a hardware wallet just in case you urgently need to use the funds. But now you have multiple possibilities of being attacked, which is yet another risk to consider ..

[Walterhank]

The issue you have raised is real that as more and more celebrities and popular figures are investing in crypto, the chances of theft are likely to increase. I think being careful is important and burying the device could be a good solution.