Suggesting this: BrandNew account limits

[jamyr]

Inspired by
Beware of the new type of spam, hidden in the bounty proof of registration.


Just an idea, how about implementing a limited account access for brand new accounts.

Meaning they must reach total time logged in : x number of hours;
or a requirement to be invited(merit), before brand new accounts can write, post.
or limit their post to the beginners & help.

This is only a suggestion.

[1714892244]

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[1714892244]

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[ranochigo]

Meaning they must reach total time logged in : x number of hours;

Won't work, they'll probably just use an auto-refresher/script that sends a GET request to the forum in intervals.

or a requirement to be invited(merit), before brand new accounts can write, post.

It'll be hard to get into the forum without some form of connections and they'll probably pay someone to give them merits. Probably would raise the bar of entry too high and isn't ideal.

or limit their post to the beginners & help.

I think theymos stated that the newbie jail won't make a comeback so I guess its out of the picture as well.

Mitchell's bot seems to be working well atm in detecting them though so there's that going for us.

[Upgrade00]

Newbie jail was a thing before, but it was stopped by theymos and I do not think it would be implemented again.
It makes the forum unwelcoming to new members, both the legitimate ones and the spammers, and if any is going to try and jump through the hoops, it would be the spammers.

Here is theymos' take on it;

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

[Mitchell]

Inspired by
Beware of the new type of spam, hidden in the bounty proof of registration.


Just an idea, how about implementing a limited account access for brand new accounts.

Meaning they must reach total time logged in : x number of hours;
or a requirement to be invited(merit), before brand new accounts can write, post.
or limit their post to the beginners & help.

This is only a suggestion.

You are more or less describing newbie jail, which was discontinued years ago. You had to spend X amount of time in a special newbie section before you could do anything else.

[jamyr]

It'll be hard to get into the forum without some form of connections and they'll probably pay someone to give them merits. Probably would raise the bar of entry too high and isn't ideal.

Nowadays if you put in your search engine for bitcoin related discussions, bitcointalk threads are top of the list.
But I agree that setting the bar of entry too high might intimidate more than educate.

Newbie jail was a thing before, but it was stopped by theymos and I do not think it would be implemented again.
It makes the forum unwelcoming to new members, both the legitimate ones and the spammers, and if any is going to try and jump through the hoops, it would be the spammers.

Here is theymos' take on it;

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

You are more or less describing newbie jail, which was discontinued years ago. You had to spend X amount of time in a special newbie section before you could do anything else.

I see. Thanks, I never knew there exists such feature. I guess I have not scrawled the forum very much.

My stubborn self would like to push this argument:
newbie is now different from Brand New.

[LoyceV]

The only thing I can think of that won't limit real new users would be to limit the number of links they can post (per post or per day). A Newbie who posts 500 URLs on his first day is clearly a spammer, but they'll probably just use more accounts to spam with.

[witcher_sense]

The only thing I can think of that won't limit real new users would be to limit the number of links they can post (per post or per day). A Newbie who posts 500 URLs on his first day is clearly a spammer, but they'll probably just use more accounts to spam with.

Or to limit the number of BBCode tags they can use when formatting their messages. For example, without

Code:

[url][/url]

tag, it would be impossible for brandnew and newbies accounts to come up with such a sophisticated way of spamming described in OP.

[stompix]

The only thing I can think of that won't limit real new users would be to limit the number of links they can post (per post or per day).

My opinion also, but I think at first we might want to understand why are they doing this, I remember what Rizzrack said is this an attack?
Are those simply bot posing as bounty hunters and want to get their share without doing anything? I doubt so, they would just submit twitter links. Is this a malware attack? I don't know 100% what those links are, I won't download that on my current laptop butvirus total says the pdfs are clean, is it a SEO attacks indeed?
Who else other than the bounty manager clicks those links in the first place?

[jamyr]

The only thing I can think of that won't limit real new users would be to limit the number of links they can post (per post or per day). A Newbie who posts 500 URLs on his first day is clearly a spammer, but they'll probably just use more accounts to spam with.

Very tough nut to crack automatically.

Or to limit the number of BBCode tags they can use when formatting their messages. For example, without

Code:

[url][/url]

tag, it would be impossible for brandnew and newbies accounts to come up with such a sophisticated way of spamming described in OP.

A template can be prepared I think.

[hilariousandco]

Theymos isn't going to do anything that is this restrictive. One thing I suggested in the past is that all new users first post needs to be accepted by a mod first before it goes public and they're essentially shadow-banned until they are approved (or not). At least this would put a stop to all the obvious spam bots.

[NeuroticFish]

This is only a suggestion.

Limiting their posts only to Beginners & Help can be an option and maybe the only one close to valid.
Stopping them completely from posting should not be done. Asking for some extras (invites) is also bad idea.

Keep in mind that some (few?) newbies are honest and come here with problems or simply for the reason this forum was created (discuss), not necessarily to spam and do bounties. Those should be allowed ask their questions and get the chance to properly describe their problems (which usually comes as a later post), or simply to chat a little.

And yes, that quote from Theymos about newbie jail is very eloquent.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Or to limit the number of BBCode tags they can use when formatting their messages. For example, without

Code:

[url][/url]

tag, it would be impossible for brandnew and newbies accounts to come up with such a sophisticated way of spamming described in OP.

It is a jail, isn't it? I can understand the jail with img brackets but with url brackets, the jail will limit the right of brandnew account to make their inquiries. Furthermore, if you think it is necessary, why not have the limit up to Newbie, not Brandnew.

Any limit with Brandnew won't work because with a single post and post count, they will become a Newbie (it takes one hour to count post and update activity).

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I think theymos stated that the newbie jail won't make a comeback so I guess its out of the picture as well.

All of your other arguments are valid, but it's the above reason why OP's suggestion (which has been made plenty of times before) won't see the light of day.  Theymos putting the 1-merit requirement on Newbies ranking up is about as far as he's likely going to go with noob restrictions. 

Sometimes I wish he'd think of a genius solution for all of the annoyances created by brand new accounts, and who knows, maybe he's working on it.  But the solutions brought up by the community over the past few years have just fallen on deaf ears.

Limiting their posts only to Beginners & Help can be an option and maybe the only one close to valid.
Stopping them completely from posting should not be done.

I agree with both of these, except that as ranochigo and I said above, Theymos isn't looking to put any major restrictions on brand new/newbie account and certainly not what amounts to a B&H jail.

[Lucius]

One thing I suggested in the past is that all new users first post needs to be accepted by a mod first before it goes public and they're essentially shadow-banned until they are approved (or not). At least this would put a stop to all the obvious spam bots.

I don't know how many new members are registered on average per day, but if every first post of a new member should be checked, it would require a lot of time and human resources. Would that be feasible with the current number of staff given the total daily number of reports coming from forum members as extra work?

Yet I have no doubt that spammers might find some hole in the system - let’s say their first post is good and then when they get the green light they suddenly show their true face.

[hilariousandco]

One thing I suggested in the past is that all new users first post needs to be accepted by a mod first before it goes public and they're essentially shadow-banned until they are approved (or not). At least this would put a stop to all the obvious spam bots.

I don't know how many new members are registered on average per day, but if every first post of a new member should be checked, it would require a lot of time and human resources. Would that be feasible with the current number of staff given the total daily number of reports coming from forum members as extra work?

Yet I have no doubt that spammers might find some hole in the system - let’s say their first post is good and then when they get the green light they suddenly show their true face.

I don't think it would be an issue and you can always hire one or two more staff to deal with it. Probably half of the new sign-ups are bots which we have to handle anyway and most reports, especially the ones patrollers can handle, get done so pretty fast.

[Upgrade00]

It is a jail, isn't it? I can understand the jail with img brackets but with url brackets, the jail will limit the right of brandnew account to make their inquiries.

I do not see how it limits accounts from making their inquiry. The URL tags are used to customize links using personalized texts. This means a user can change the way a link appears and unsuspecting users can click on malwares without being aware.

Newbies/brand new accounts can always drop the actual link to their inquiry for other members to check out. URL tags are not a necessity. Spammers would likely go ahead to do so, but it would be much easier to spot spam links.

[RapTarX]

I would strongly oppose this proposal as it would give newbie less chance to explore/use the forum as they need. It's likely that forum will lose a lot of real users from the forum. Spammer will find a way or another to spam their shit but real users will go away once they find the forum is not welcoming the newbies.

[LoyceV]

Is this a malware attack? I don't know 100% what those links are, I won't download that on my current laptop butvirus total says the pdfs are clean, is it a SEO attacks indeed?
Who else other than the bounty manager clicks those links in the first place?

My assumption is it's only about having links that someone will eventually click. Or SEO indeed: backlinks from Bitcointalk might help, although I'd expect Google to be smarter than this by now.

But: it's unlikely 100% of them gets removed, and if only a small portion of those posts remains, they've accomplished their goal.

Theymos isn't going to do anything that is this restrictive. One thing I suggested in the past is that all new users first post needs to be accepted by a mod first before it goes public and they're essentially shadow-banned until they are approved (or not).

That's like Newbie jail. How about an alternative, and I can make it myself: collect all first posts and publish them on a separate page for manual review. If it's spam, they can be reported and Nuked. It won't restrict Newbies, but (with some effort) will catch the spammers.
Update: Done! See [Newbie scrutiny instead of jail] Every new user's first post: loyce.club/patrol.

[hilariousandco]

Theymos isn't going to do anything that is this restrictive. One thing I suggested in the past is that all new users first post needs to be accepted by a mod first before it goes public and they're essentially shadow-banned until they are approved (or not).

That's like Newbie jail. How about an alternative, and I can make it myself: collect all first posts and publish them on a separate page for manual review. If it's spam, they can be reported and Nuked. It won't restrict Newbies, but (with some effort) will catch the spammers.

It's not really. They're free to post; it just wont show up publicly until they're accepted and it should be done pretty fast. If they're not a bot then they won't even notice (and bots won't notice either  ).

[holydarkness]

Pardon me for jumping in with a slightly out of topic question, but after searching for some time few hours ago, this thread seems the most recently active and the most less-OOT for what I'm about to ask.

The Brand New accounts, were they restricted from creating a new thread as their first post? And, if this is true, wouldn't they only need to do one post to "rank up" and remove this restriction?

I would really appreciate the help, I needed the info for a project I am currently investigating, where the dev claimed they created an account (currently on BN rank) but they can't create ANN, and someone had to give his old account to the team so they can publish the ANN using said acc.