I don't feel like working anymore.

[max in montreal]

a great read by an old friend...

http://www.hixoxih.com/soapbox/AreYouASlave.htm

ARE YOU A SLAVE?
by
Ray E. Bornert II
September 22nd, 1999

I contend that the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution can be used as an ironclad argument against a forcible direct tax on the labor of a human being.

The 13th Amendment makes it very clear that I cannot be forced into involuntary servitude. It took a war to help determine this.

As such, I maintain that a human being has an inalienable right to control 100% of the compensation for his labor while in the act of a service - e.g. digging a ditch, flipping hamburgers, typing a letter, programming a computer, preparing a court case, performing surgery, preaching a sermon, etc.

A direct tax on the labor of a human being is in violation of this right as stated by the 13th Amendment.

If I work 40 hours in a week and another entity forcibly conscripts 25% of my compensation then I argue that I was forced into involuntary servitude for 10 hours and I was free for the other 30.

If I could freely choose to work just the 30 hours and decline to work the 10 hours then my will would not be violated and the 13th Amendment would be honored.

But Congress, the IRS and their IRC lay direct claim to those 10 hours (or some stated percentage) without my consent.

To sum up:


I don't work for free in whole or in part.


I am not a slave to anything or anyone.


Anyone that attempts to make me work for free is violating my rights under the 13th amendment.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"...and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
July 4th, 1776


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the Unites States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Amendment XIII
December 6th, 1865

 

[Vanderbleek]

But amendment XVI (16) gives congress permission to levy an income tax...

[jothan]

I don't feel like feeding myself nor fetching water. Heck, I even wear a diaper that needs to be changed. I am going to die of dehydration and in an adult diaper full of shit glued to my ass unless somebody pays for my survival. You don't feel like helping me nor can you afford to care for me. Oh but luckily you're so compassionate that you'll force other people to care for me. You take your team of buddies with guns to extort funds from your neighbors so I can get my ass wiped, watered and fed.

Is this moral? If not, what should of been done that doesn't require force?

If you have to ask, you're not ready to know yet.

Touché

[ineededausername]

Hey guys, if you can provide an argument as to why robbery is objectively immoral under any circumstances, I'll be impressed.
Otherwise, you must stop saying "blah blah moral blah blah rights."

[ALPHA.]

Hey guys, if you can provide an argument as to why robbery is objectively immoral under any circumstances, I'll be impressed.
Otherwise, you must stop saying "blah blah moral blah blah rights."

Go read some Nietzsche and come back to us. Most of us have passed Philosophy 101. We know there is no objective morality. However, it is certain that property rights encourage the sustention of life. They give people incentive to produce in the first place.

[ineededausername]

Hey guys, if you can provide an argument as to why robbery is objectively immoral under any circumstances, I'll be impressed.
Otherwise, you must stop saying "blah blah moral blah blah rights."

Go read some Nietzsche and come back to us. Most of us have passed Philosophy 101. We know there is no objective morality. However, it is certain that property rights encourage the sustention of life. They give people incentive to produce in the first place.

Philosophy, blah.  The only analysis that matters is materialist analysis -- gotta agree with Marx on that.  I'm too busy to read useless philosophy

Now, I must point out that your support of the "sustention [sic] of life" is not consistent with your other posts, in which you say that if someone is about to die, nobody should be forced to feed them.  Is that really why you support your absolutist system of  property rights? 

Taxation and coercion reduce the incentive to produce... this is true.  They do not completely eliminate it though.  Why is your system of morality superior to mine, which values fairness more than an absolutist system of rights?

[ALPHA.]

Hey guys, if you can provide an argument as to why robbery is objectively immoral under any circumstances, I'll be impressed.
Otherwise, you must stop saying "blah blah moral blah blah rights."

Go read some Nietzsche and come back to us. Most of us have passed Philosophy 101. We know there is no objective morality. However, it is certain that property rights encourage the sustention of life. They give people incentive to produce in the first place.

Philosophy, blah.  The only analysis that matters is materialist analysis -- gotta agree with Marx on that.  I'm too busy to read useless philosophy

Now, I must point out that your support of the "sustention [sic] of life" is not consistent with your other posts, in which you say that if someone is about to die, nobody should be forced to feed them.  Is that really why you support your absolutist system of  property rights?  

Taxation and coercion reduce the incentive to produce... this is true.  They do not completely eliminate it though.  Why is your system of morality superior to mine, which values fairness more than an absolutist system of rights?

Nobody should be forced to feed anybody because they will most likely be fed through voluntary means otherwise. The fact people have such a strong desire to hurt and kill in the name of defending the poor shows they will not starve in a free society. In fact, a society that plunders others to support the underclasses is inefficient and only 'hurts' these 'poor' even more due to how stolen money is not used with little regard to --again-- efficiency and profit. A society that voluntarily gives from its own pocket will make sure to use the money efficiently and directly towards the "poor" at hand.

The poor would be much better off being helped by who truly want to and can help them as opposed to murders and thugs who bring down other people to meet their ends.

Fairness -- fairness is not a virtue. It is only envy of those who bring value and have earned value. Life is not a zero-sum game. Those who have gained rightfully have stolen nothing: they have only created wealth and I don't think their property rights should be compromised. Wealth creation helps everyone. I hold the morally rich as the most charitable and they should be rewarded with our complete respect at the least.

In conclusion, life is best sustained with a complete respect for property rights. Things will be made more efficient, the poor will be better fed if we allow man to keep what he has earned all the way throughout. Voluntarily giving is more efficient and more potent since man will have to give out of his own freewill and not slavery.

Also, Marx values individual sweat labor more -- not society, not people -- they value what they choose to value. He can't apply his preferences and what he values universally.

[NghtRppr]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

[deuxmill]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

[Hawker]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

[Vanderbleek]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Can you elaborate? What you stated is completely true...there is no difference how pregnant she would be. Also not sure how that ties into what I was saying.

[deuxmill]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

No it ain't you forced him to something he didn't wanted. Maybe your child gets some neat complication when he gets an vaccine . I would love to see your face when you will explain to him why you forced him to take it if you ever have the chance to do it.

[Hawker]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

No it ain't you forced him to something he didn't wanted. Maybe your child gets some neat complication when he gets an vaccine . I would love to see your face when you will explain to him why you forced him to take it if you ever have the chance to do it.

Well, you made me laugh.  When you have something intelligent to say, let us know. 

[JA37]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

No it ain't you forced him to something he didn't wanted. Maybe your child gets some neat complication when he gets an vaccine . I would love to see your face when you will explain to him why you forced him to take it if you ever have the chance to do it.

I'm guessing you don't have children. Raise a pair and then we'll talk.

[rainingbitcoins]

Most of us have passed Philosophy 101.

What the fuck? You're not even old enough for college.

Also quit saying

not a zero-sum game

about every subject in nearly every post you make on this forum. Like a lot of things you type, I know you think it makes you sound smart, but really it just makes everyone embarrassed for you. We can all see that you're using the same few phrases over and over to try and mimic what you think a smart person should sound like. Every time you learn a new word, we get to see it in every single one of your posts. In a way, it's kind of cute, but in another, more realistic way, it's insufferable.

[ALPHA.]

Most vaccines are useless and have negligible benefit to only a small portion of the population. The risk of complication is probably far greater for most children than benefit. My children won't be taking most vaccines out there. I will not be taking another vaccine for the rest of my life.

[ALPHA.]

Most of us have passed Philosophy 101.

What the fuck? You're not even old enough for college.

Also quit saying

not a zero-sum game

about every subject in nearly every post you make on this forum. Like a lot of things you type, I know you think it makes you sound smart, but really it just makes everyone embarrassed for you. We can all see that you're using the same few phrases over and over to try and mimic what you think a smart person should sound like. Every time you learn a new word, we get to see it in every single one of your posts. In a way, it's kind of cute, but in another, more realistic way, it's insufferable.

Heh. It's funny how you just don't understand what I say.  Also, I've read more works than that are prescribed in college: I talk to a woman who is just about to finish her Bachelor's degree. We seem to be on similar grounds when it comes to material.

Also, on a funny note, she's a Marxist yet my best friend.

[Hawker]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

No it ain't you forced him to something he didn't wanted. Maybe your child gets some neat complication when he gets an vaccine . I would love to see your face when you will explain to him why you forced him to take it if you ever have the chance to do it.

I'm guessing you don't have children. Raise a pair and then we'll talk.

The guy thinks that forcing a child to take its medicine is the same as raping a child.

Are you sure you want him to reproduce?  And if you are, are you sure children will be safe in his care?

[ALPHA.]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

No it ain't you forced him to something he didn't wanted. Maybe your child gets some neat complication when he gets an vaccine . I would love to see your face when you will explain to him why you forced him to take it if you ever have the chance to do it.

I'm guessing you don't have children. Raise a pair and then we'll talk.

The guy thinks that forcing a child to take its medicine is the same as raping a child.

Are you sure you want him to reproduce?  And if you are, are you sure children will be safe in his care?

It is rape when a good portion of the stuff is disease-causing with little benefit.

[Hawker]

I, personally would rather pick and choose who I paid (much like I do when shipping goods) but outside of satisfying personal preference, I don't think there would be a large difference in most people's wealth.

That's like saying that if a woman is raped or she falls in love and has consensual sex, there's no difference in how pregnant she'll get.

Wheal she is pregnant regardless of the way she got there. You can't be half pregnant.

The difference is what preceded the sexual act which preceded the pregnancy . Physical  Violence.

Those that come after Violence is irrelevant at least to me. It's not worst to be raped than being forced to sign something or to take a pill .

You really need to get out more.  There is the world of difference between forcing a child to take an aspirin and raping him. 

No it ain't you forced him to something he didn't wanted. Maybe your child gets some neat complication when he gets an vaccine . I would love to see your face when you will explain to him why you forced him to take it if you ever have the chance to do it.

I'm guessing you don't have children. Raise a pair and then we'll talk.

The guy thinks that forcing a child to take its medicine is the same as raping a child.

Are you sure you want him to reproduce?  And if you are, are you sure children will be safe in his care?

It is rape when a good portion of the stuff is disease-causing with little benefit.

I see.  Are you wearing your tinfoil hat ?