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Author Topic: Stolen ETH from my Ledger  (Read 1343 times)
philipma1957
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December 17, 2020, 07:34:56 PM
 #21

B) 5 trezors with 76 eth coins in each would have been a better choice.

Thanks for remembering the 4th thing to do.

1st: never use ledger in your personal computer, the computer you will use ledger must have never been used for another thing other than ledger itself and the OS needs to be installed with the original image from the website itself. There are OS's that are modified, beware of that.
2nd: Make sure nothing in the network is running while ledger is plugged in your ledger specific computer or you can use a second network connection, much safer.
3rd: Keep you seedphrase in a fireproof case, this might be very expensive because most are not up for the job. Well, it has many other ways to keep it safe.
4th: Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

This is not paranoic, to make things simpler, you can use the same pc but not the same hard disk, swap disks will work here, a new pc is not needed for this.

or own 2 of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-M73-Tiny-Mini-Business-Desktop-Intel-Core-i3-i5-Win10-Pro-Customizer/164477569226?

16gb ram 1tb ssd i5 4570t for about 220 well worth the money to hold coins

I have lots of them.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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adaseb
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December 17, 2020, 09:49:31 PM
 #22

Whats ironic is that millions of dollars probably went into Ledger research and developement to make it as secure as possible. There was that little bug a few years back if you forgot your PIN someone could bypass it, however a firmware upgrade fixed that. So they didn't overlook anything except their weak point was their web server security.

Web server security would of probably been much much cheaper to make secure than what it cost to make the ledger secure. However a simple email leak with first and last name to cause this much loss even after the individual did their due diligence and bought a hardware wallet in the first place is just sad and not fair.

Losing a quarter of a million dollars which would of been 50% of a house in most places is just crazy.






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arielbit
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December 17, 2020, 11:42:33 PM
 #23

B) 5 trezors with 76 eth coins in each would have been a better choice.

Thanks for remembering the 4th thing to do.

1st: never use ledger in your personal computer, the computer you will use ledger must have never been used for another thing other than ledger itself and the OS needs to be installed with the original image from the website itself. There are OS's that are modified, beware of that.
2nd: Make sure nothing in the network is running while ledger is plugged in your ledger specific computer or you can use a second network connection, much safer.
3rd: Keep you seedphrase in a fireproof case, this might be very expensive because most are not up for the job. Well, it has many other ways to keep it safe.
4th: Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

This is not paranoic, to make things simpler, you can use the same pc but not the same hard disk, swap disks will work here, a new pc is not needed for this.

or own 2 of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-M73-Tiny-Mini-Business-Desktop-Intel-Core-i3-i5-Win10-Pro-Customizer/164477569226?

16gb ram 1tb ssd i5 4570t for about 220 well worth the money to hold coins

I have lots of them.

Yeah use ssd and back up your wallet.

I have a 80gb hdd used in a mining rig...used by the first owner and used by me for 7 years mining...it fell and it died.
The Crypto Collector
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December 18, 2020, 12:46:30 AM
 #24

Hardware wallets are not safe and are the first thing that are targeted since they are used solely for crypto. Instead use an airgapped computer that is NEVER connected to the internet. There is too much room for hardware wallets to be tampered with at the factory, post office, etc. Also Ledger could have done this themselves abut they only selectively scam people so they have a fresh crop of customers.

Luckily you didn't lose much money, only around 11 bitcoins worth of ethereum so you can learn from this and bounce back.
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December 18, 2020, 03:17:59 AM
 #25

Hardware wallets are not safe and are the first thing that are targeted since they are used solely for crypto. Instead use an airgapped computer that is NEVER connected to the internet. There is too much room for hardware wallets to be tampered with at the factory, post office, etc. Also Ledger could have done this themselves abut they only selectively scam people so they have a fresh crop of customers.

Luckily you didn't lose much money, only around 11 bitcoins worth of ethereum so you can learn from this and bounce back.

Any loss greater than $1k is significant in my book, just look at this section of the forum, people using celeron to mine in hopes to earn cents, not realizing their electricity spent is more than the cents they earn using the celerons, I know they are stupid but think about if one of those people lost $1k? they would rope themselves and be done with it and to tell you the truth, the op is too sane given he lost a lot lot of money.

Also to me, any cold wallet is not something that you would use all the time for any transaction, actually, you should rarely use it, I advise the use of it to be, 2 to 5 times a year.

BTC Address: 1DH4ok85VdFAe47fSVXNVctxkFhUv4ujbR
adaseb
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December 18, 2020, 05:29:48 AM
 #26


Luckily you didn't lose much money, only around 11 bitcoins worth of ethereum so you can learn from this and bounce back.

I had to load the BTCUSD and see if BTC crashed down to $10 a coin because hearing someone say 11BTC is not alot of money would only make sense if BTC was double digits like in 2012. 11BTC is a significant amount of money. You would need to have a net worth of at least $5Million+ to consider quarter million to be pocket change.

I don't think he will earn it back. Most likely he mined these ETH back when ETH was like $10 a coin and hodl'd. Only spend money on electricity and GPUs. So very little initial investment. Kind of like how everyone who mined BTC back in 2010 is lucky if they held till today. If they lost it all due to a hack, do you think they could earn it back? Probably not.





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arielbit
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December 18, 2020, 09:11:25 AM
Merited by Metroid (1)
 #27

Hardware wallets are not safe and are the first thing that are targeted since they are used solely for crypto. Instead use an airgapped computer that is NEVER connected to the internet. There is too much room for hardware wallets to be tampered with at the factory, post office, etc. Also Ledger could have done this themselves abut they only selectively scam people so they have a fresh crop of customers.

Luckily you didn't lose much money, only around 11 bitcoins worth of ethereum so you can learn from this and bounce back.

Any loss greater than $1k is significant in my book, just look at this section of the forum, people using celeron to mine in hopes to earn cents, not realizing their electricity spent is more than the cents they earn using the celerons, I know they are stupid but think about if one of those people lost $1k? they would rope themselves and be done with it and to tell you the truth, the op is too sane given he lost a lot lot of money.

Also to me, any cold wallet is not something that you would use all the time for any transaction, actually, you should rarely use it, I advise the use of it to be, 2 to 5 times a year.

Even better you have hardware wallet you rarely use(bulk of your crypto) and another one you frequently use. If something bad happened to your frequently used hardware wallet(smaller amount of crypto), then you will know that you have something to fix so that your rarely used hardware wallet will be safe..

People just want something to rely on and use with a peace of mind..ledger is somewhat at fault too if people cannot use it with peace of mind.

Remember, always check the address before pressing the "send' button that is all you have to do.
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December 18, 2020, 09:45:37 AM
 #28

Even better you have hardware wallet you rarely use(bulk of your crypto) and another one you frequently use. If something bad happened to your frequently used hardware wallet(smaller amount of crypto), then you will know that you have something to fix so that your rarely used hardware wallet will be safe..

People just want something to rely on and use with a peace of mind..ledger is somewhat at fault too if people cannot use it with peace of mind.

Remember, always check the address before pressing the "send' button that is all you have to do.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that too, thanks hehe

BTC Address: 1DH4ok85VdFAe47fSVXNVctxkFhUv4ujbR
arielbit
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December 18, 2020, 12:25:43 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2020, 10:00:24 PM by arielbit
 #29

Even better you have hardware wallet you rarely use(bulk of your crypto) and another one you frequently use. If something bad happened to your frequently used hardware wallet(smaller amount of crypto), then you will know that you have something to fix so that your rarely used hardware wallet will be safe..

People just want something to rely on and use with a peace of mind..ledger is somewhat at fault too if people cannot use it with peace of mind.

Remember, always check the address before pressing the "send' button that is all you have to do.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that too, thanks hehe

I also forgot..laziness (which we all have) tends to look for one best solution..but the best solution is always approach security with "LAYERS" .. we may call it as "layered security".

speaking of "forgetting"...that's why "layers", example: you forgot your password, but you have it written somewhere safe

altcoins that don't have hardware wallet support use this (Neo’s SafeKeys - or something similar) as a layer of security. I have a computer that got malware'd but the thief wasn't able to steal because password was protected hehe.

trezor one can also be used to U2F-FIDO (hardware 2fa) your gmail, yahoo, facebook etc. etc. account.....another use of that hardware wallet--> now you have more reasons to get more trezor to spead your coins to different hardware wallets hehe
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December 18, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
 #30

So I don't have a hardware wallet yet, only the coinbase wallet app on my phone, which nothing in it yet.  I wanted to move my pennies from coinbase website to the coinbase wallet app, and it costs a fee to do so.  Do you also pay somebody a fee if you move coins from your "frequent use" hardware wallet to your "rarely use" hardware wallet?  I'm wanting to draw up a best practices document for myself, and there's been a lot of detailed information in this thread which I appreciate.  Since my plan is to hodl very long term everything I possibly can, would I want to offload everything I plan to bank for years onto one (or more than one as has been suggested) hardware wallet and keep it locked in my safe?  Pull it out once every few months to dump from my active hardware wallet to the "vault" hardware wallet?  If I'm talking about having multiple hardware wallets over time, does it still make sense to keep the coins on separate wallets if they are all just in a stack in the safe together in one place?  Or if they are all in on place does it makes sense to just keep it all on one device? 

If my home burns down and the safe doesn't protect them, what recourse do I have? 

If I put them in a bank safe deposit box like Phil suggests, same question - if the bank burns down, or is robbed completely...  vault and everything...  what recourse do I have?  As I think I understand it, the hardware wallets are just paperweights without the seed list.  But if one is lost or destroyed, and i still have the seed list, can it be recovered in any way? 

As I am planning to invest and to mine, both as part of my retirement plan in 20 years, I really want to make sure I set myself up right from the beginning to do this as best as possible. 

I'm going to read up on "air gapped" computers today, that's a term I'm unfamiliar with.  I think have a sense of it's context, but I want to understand it better. 

Mining since 1-19-21 :-)
philipma1957
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December 18, 2020, 04:17:34 PM
 #31

So I don't have a hardware wallet yet, only the coinbase wallet app on my phone, which nothing in it yet.  I wanted to move my pennies from coinbase website to the coinbase wallet app, and it costs a fee to do so.  Do you also pay somebody a fee if you move coins from your "frequent use" hardware wallet to your "rarely use" hardware wallet?  I'm wanting to draw up a best practices document for myself, and there's been a lot of detailed information in this thread which I appreciate.  Since my plan is to hodl very long term everything I possibly can, would I want to offload everything I plan to bank for years onto one (or more than one as has been suggested) hardware wallet and keep it locked in my safe?  Pull it out once every few months to dump from my active hardware wallet to the "vault" hardware wallet?  If I'm talking about having multiple hardware wallets over time, does it still make sense to keep the coins on separate wallets if they are all just in a stack in the safe together in one place?  Or if they are all in on place does it makes sense to just keep it all on one device? 

If my home burns down and the safe doesn't protect them, what recourse do I have? 

If I put them in a bank safe deposit box like Phil suggests, same question - if the bank burns down, or is robbed completely...  vault and everything...  what recourse do I have?  As I think I understand it, the hardware wallets are just paperweights without the seed list.  But if one is lost or destroyed, and i still have the seed list, can it be recovered in any way? 

As I am planning to invest and to mine, both as part of my retirement plan in 20 years, I really want to make sure I set myself up right from the beginning to do this as best as possible. 

I'm going to read up on "air gapped" computers today, that's a term I'm unfamiliar with.  I think have a sense of it's context, but I want to understand it better. 

there are hard metal seed savers.  let me find a link

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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December 18, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #32

So I don't have a hardware wallet yet, only the coinbase wallet app on my phone, which nothing in it yet.  I wanted to move my pennies from coinbase website to the coinbase wallet app, and it costs a fee to do so.  Do you also pay somebody a fee if you move coins from your "frequent use" hardware wallet to your "rarely use" hardware wallet?  I'm wanting to draw up a best practices document for myself, and there's been a lot of detailed information in this thread which I appreciate.  Since my plan is to hodl very long term everything I possibly can, would I want to offload everything I plan to bank for years onto one (or more than one as has been suggested) hardware wallet and keep it locked in my safe?  Pull it out once every few months to dump from my active hardware wallet to the "vault" hardware wallet?  If I'm talking about having multiple hardware wallets over time, does it still make sense to keep the coins on separate wallets if they are all just in a stack in the safe together in one place?  Or if they are all in on place does it makes sense to just keep it all on one device? 

If my home burns down and the safe doesn't protect them, what recourse do I have? 

If I put them in a bank safe deposit box like Phil suggests, same question - if the bank burns down, or is robbed completely...  vault and everything...  what recourse do I have?  As I think I understand it, the hardware wallets are just paperweights without the seed list.  But if one is lost or destroyed, and i still have the seed list, can it be recovered in any way? 

As I am planning to invest and to mine, both as part of my retirement plan in 20 years, I really want to make sure I set myself up right from the beginning to do this as best as possible. 

I'm going to read up on "air gapped" computers today, that's a term I'm unfamiliar with.  I think have a sense of it's context, but I want to understand it better. 

Basically you pay a fee whenever the coins are moved from address to address even if you are sending them to yourself. Best time to move coins is when there is no pending transactions and you can get away with a 1 sat/byte fee.

If you want to hodl for years then use a paper wallet like this,
https://www.bitaddress.org/

Save on USB stick, run on offline computer, make a wallet and use BIP38 encryption, print out 2-3 copies, destroy that printer afterwards, and put that in 2-3 different places. Like your house, your car, your bank. If someone sees it, they won't be able to do anything since its encrypted with BIP38.

You don't need a hardware wallet, people were using paper wallet for years without any issues.





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DigitalFarns
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December 18, 2020, 04:42:12 PM
 #33

Destroy the printer??

Ok so this paper wallet site is apparently specific to bitcoin, is that correct? My current plan is to mine altcoins, most likely ETH, which I understand I have the option to convert to Bitcoin, but I haven't actually done anything yet.  Plan to get started early in the new year.  Would these same options exist for altcoins as well as bitcoin?

The metal seed savers look cool.  Like the president's nuke codes LOL. 

Mining since 1-19-21 :-)
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December 18, 2020, 06:45:40 PM
 #34

Destroy the printer??

Ok so this paper wallet site is apparently specific to bitcoin, is that correct? My current plan is to mine altcoins, most likely ETH, which I understand I have the option to convert to Bitcoin, but I haven't actually done anything yet.  Plan to get started early in the new year.  Would these same options exist for altcoins as well as bitcoin?

The metal seed savers look cool.  Like the president's nuke codes LOL.  
THE  alt coins vary. Some do some don't .

If it is you home printer. Just print a long document it will flood the cache with new info

This is philipma1957 alt. Do not conduct business  with this account
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December 18, 2020, 09:38:00 PM
 #35

Yes the extreme bitcoin maximalists insist on buying some cheap $20 inkjet printer and destroying it afterwards Office Space style to prevent any cache or any faint proceeding print jobs to reveal part of the private key.

If you want an ETH cold storage you can print a paper wallet with MEW. Not sure if its still possible but a few years back that it what I did. However with ETH, I don't know if there is BIP38 encryption so you will need to find a way to excrypt that private key for extra protection in case someone gets a hold of your paper wallet.





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December 19, 2020, 08:09:01 AM
 #36

Also your network should not be shared in anyway, many people lose their funds and dont know why, I guess most of those cases are in shared networks, my point is if the hacker or program gets hold of your network then it can change the direction that transaction is going, reason i said a second not used network by any other devices is important.

Also, going forward, cyber attacks will occur more and more as prices of cryptocoins increase, people who live in metropolitan places are the ones that will most suffer from cyber attacks.

BTC Address: 1DH4ok85VdFAe47fSVXNVctxkFhUv4ujbR
arielbit
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December 19, 2020, 09:04:43 AM
Last edit: December 19, 2020, 02:26:31 PM by arielbit
 #37

Also your network should not be shared in anyway, many people lose their funds and dont know why, I guess most of those cases are in shared networks, my point is if the hacker or program gets hold of your network then it can change the direction that transaction is going, reason i said a second not used network by any other devices is important.

Also, going forward, cyber attacks will occur more and more as prices of cryptocoins increase, people who live in metropolitan places are the ones that will most suffer from cyber attacks.

The problem with network topic is you can't discuss it with newbs hehe

There are also layers of security for networks, for example know your MACs and IPs and block the rest, firewalls are only as good as you configure them.

I think it is easier for newbs and pros to just look at offline computers and hardware wallet..yes, even pros can miss something hehe
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December 19, 2020, 09:42:07 AM
 #38

I sympathize with you.
I don't understand how you can steal cryptocurrency from a ledger.
If you have not interacted with your wallet with other smart contracts, then someone picked up or stole your passphrase.
A hacker attack will not help steal money from the ledger, because you confirm any operation by pressing buttons on the wallet.


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December 19, 2020, 07:56:33 PM
 #39

I wish the guy would reply so we can find out how his stuff got stolen. I reread and responses and he said that he never clicked on any links in emails and only did updates from the official ledger site.

So it would be nice to get more info and find out what exactly happened here. Maybe there is some security issue with the hardware wallet itself however I haven’t heard of anything really unless this case.

Other people got theirs stolen because they clicked the fake link and put in their seeds on a private website.





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December 20, 2020, 06:39:37 PM
 #40

Hello
386.5 ETH was stolen from my Ledger Nano S


Yeah, sure. Btctalk rookie with 386 ETH. Keep going...

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