Sending Bigger Amounts of BTC

[jerry0]

Hey all.  I'm curious but to those of you with a good amount of btc... do you ever feel nervous when sending btc from your hardware wallet?  Whether its to coinbase, gemini or an exchange or to a site or someone with concern something might go wrong?



When i send btc, i have to make sure the address is correct... triple check it many times before i click send.  Obviously everyone should be doing this.  But if you make a mistake somehow with a letter off or accidentally deleted a character like m and put n instead... yes i know you should be copying/pasting the seed and never type it.... but obviously it could somehow happen if you accidentally type in an extra letter or deleted a letter by accident and replaced it by another character... what typically happens?



I heard the odds of it being sent to another address was almost impossible... is that correct or not?  Like could you be off a character... and that btc address is actually a btc address?  Thus you woulda sent btc to someone else by accident?



But the biggest thing here i say is if you are sending big amounts.  With how much btc price has gotten, im sure if someone here sends half a btc or one btc... they are very careful right?  Even sending ten percent of a btc is a ton of money nowadays.  Like how do ppl who have lot of btc feel when they are about to send btc?  Im trying to imagine how someone feels when say they are sending 5 btc from their wallet to another wallet etc.


Obviously when you deal with big amounts, besides being very careful the address is right and the amount is correct... is make sure you are sending it with the recommended sending fee right?  I can't imagine someone sending something like 5 btc... then pay like the minimum sending fee on their nano ledger s?



I'm guessing the other thing you can do to make sure is whoever you are sending btc to... whether coinbase or exchange or someone or a site and doing a big amount... first send like a tiny test deposit first to make sure it works... before you send the whole thing the second time? 

[ranochigo]

When i send btc, i have to make sure the address is correct... triple check it many times before i click send.  Obviously everyone should be doing this.  But if you make a mistake somehow with a letter off or accidentally deleted a character like m and put n instead... yes i know you should be copying/pasting the seed and never type it.... but obviously it could somehow happen if you accidentally type in an extra letter or deleted a letter by accident and replaced it by another character... what typically happens?

Then the address will be invalid and transactions generated for it will be invalid as well. Addresses has a checksum and replacing or reducing any characters will result in it being invalid. The chances of you replacing or removing a character and still matching the checksum is actually fairly low.

I heard the odds of it being sent to another address was almost impossible... is that correct or not?  Like could you be off a character... and that btc address is actually a btc address?  Thus you woulda sent btc to someone else by accident?

Very low.

But the biggest thing here i say is if you are sending big amounts.  With how much btc price has gotten, im sure if someone here sends half a btc or one btc... they are very careful right?  Even sending ten percent of a btc is a ton of money nowadays.  Like how do ppl who have lot of btc feel when they are about to send btc?  Im trying to imagine how someone feels when say they are sending 5 btc from their wallet to another wallet etc.

If you know what you're doing, you probably don't have to fear too much. I always like to 'test' my wallet by sending a small amount and transferring around. It isn't necessary at all but helps with giving you a peace of mind.

Obviously when you deal with big amounts, besides being very careful the address is right and the amount is correct... is make sure you are sending it with the recommended sending fee right?  I can't imagine someone sending something like 5 btc... then pay like the minimum sending fee on their nano ledger s?

Use RBF so you could still replace the transaction with something with a higher fees.

I'm guessing the other thing you can do to make sure is whoever you are sending btc to... whether coinbase or exchange or someone or a site and doing a big amount... first send like a tiny test deposit first to make sure it works... before you send the whole thing the second time?  [/b]

Correct.

Which bech32, the number of errors you make would probably give you a cushioning of 4 characters at least. As the number increases, it should tend towards the probability of 1 in a billion.

[HCP]

When i send btc, i have to make sure the address is correct... triple check it many times before i click send.  Obviously everyone should be doing this.  

Yes, that is good practice... especially if you're copy/pasting addresses, to avoid issues with clipboard malware.

But if you make a mistake somehow with a letter off or accidentally deleted a character like m and put n instead... yes i know you should be copying/pasting the seed and never type it.... but obviously it could somehow happen if you accidentally type in an extra letter or deleted a letter by accident and replaced it by another character... what typically happens?

The wallet software detects the address is invalid and displays an error. Nothing "bad" happens.

I heard the odds of it being sent to another address was almost impossible... is that correct or not?  

Correct.

Like could you be off a character... and that btc address is actually a btc address?  Thus you woulda sent btc to someone else by accident?

No.

Obviously when you deal with big amounts, besides being very careful the address is right and the amount is correct... is make sure you are sending it with the recommended sending fee right?  I can't imagine someone sending something like 5 btc... then pay like the minimum sending fee on their nano ledger s?

Why not? If you're not in a hurry, sending with a minimum fee is fine... the fee rate used has no bearing on the "security" of the transaction, nor whether you entered the correct fee, nor the value of the transaction... if you're not in any particular hurry for the coins to arrive at destination, you can send with 1 sat/byte fee.

If you need the funds to arrive quickly, using a "good" fee for the current network state is always recommended... regardless of the amount being transacted.

If you're concerned, use RBF so you can increase the fee if needed.


Also, stop using bold font everywhere.

[Pmalek]

The amounts I send don't make me change the approach I have when it comes to bitcoin. Whether it is $10 or $1000 worth of coins I perform the same checks. A lot of my funds are on hardware wallets so I compare character by character what is displayed on the hardware device and what Ledger Live/Electrum displays. When I am sure they art both identical, I copy the address and paste it where it needs to be. I then check a second time to make sure I copied the address correctly.

But if you make a mistake somehow with a letter off or accidentally deleted a character like m and put n instead... yes i know you should be copying/pasting the seed and never type it....

I know this is just a typo, but I really hope you aren't keeping some digital copies of your seed somewhere?!

[HCP]

But if you make a mistake somehow with a letter off or accidentally deleted a character like m and put n instead... yes i know you should be copying/pasting the seed and never type it....

I know this is just a typo, but I really hope you aren't keeping some digital copies of your seed somewhere?!

Sadly, despite the many warnings and recommendations NOT to do so, I suspect jerry0 decided to store his seed (encrypted) in a password manager like keepass/lastpass...

Possibly due to his requirement for "easy access" while travelling.

[Pmalek]

Snip

Don't you think people put too much trust in these password managers and were should we draw the line? They are excellent apps and make our lives easier, but we are kind of centralizing the password creation and storage process to a few apps. If there was a leak, similar to the one Ledger suffered, a lot of people would be affected. 

If you can trust them to generate and store your passwords safely, why not trust them with your private keys and seeds as well? I'd rather not trust them with either of those.

[ranochigo]

Don't you think people put too much trust in these password managers and were should we draw the line? They are excellent apps and make our lives easier, but we are kind of centralizing the password creation and storage process to a few apps. If there was a leak, similar to the one Ledger suffered, a lot of people would be affected. 

LastPass had a leak a few years back. Password managers are by no means immune to anything and should not be used to store information that are too sensitive. There are better alternatives though, some don't even require the trust of the operator.

If you can trust them to generate and store your passwords safely, why not trust them with your private keys and seeds as well? I'd rather not trust them with either of those.

Password managers should be seen as a balance between convenience and security. They can't possibly ensure impenetrable security given that you're literally giving them the information (albeit secured) but there is still a risk of inside job and stuff like that. I find them useful to help users to avoid reusing password across sites and it's arguably more convenient than generating your own password and writing them down. It's alright for stuff like passwords for your social media or exchange with 2FA.

[LTU_btc]

I don't send big amounts from hardware wallet often. But offcourse, when I send, I'm extremely careful. I don't double our triple times check everything - I check everything probably 5 times at least, such things like recipient address, amount, fees. And it's not just about hardware wallet, actually it doesn't matter where BTC is stored, in hardware, desktop, web, mobile wallet or exchange, we should be extremely careful when sending BTC. Better safe than sorry. I remember how careful I was and how many times I checked everything when I wanted to take Bitcoin forks. I knew that if I would do something wrong, I would lose all my BTC.
Though, when I send smaller amounts, something like $10 or $20, I don't take so many precautions. I check everything probably only twice. So far nothing wrong didn't happened for me and I hope won't happen.

[Pmalek]

I don't send big amounts from hardware wallet often. But offcourse, when I send, I'm extremely careful. I don't double our triple times check everything - I check everything probably 5 times at least, such things like recipient address, amount, fees.

Being a little paranoid, scared to lose your money, and extra careful is much better than being in a hurry, acting completely relaxed and arrogant, and lacking common sense and logic. So I agree with what you said.

Though, when I send smaller amounts, something like $10 or $20, I don't take so many precautions. I check everything probably only twice. So far nothing wrong didn't happened for me and I hope won't happen.

Think about that for a second. If Bitcoin reaches those highs that will prevent McAfee from eating his junk, those $10 and $20 will be worth much more.

[jerry0]

Are people sending bigger amounts of btc now... almost always sending the recommended fee now?  Imagine someone sending like 0.05 or something huge like lbtc to coinbase or to someone. 



I can't imagine someone paying the least amount of fees right to send it?    Like wouldn't most of you feel a bit nervous if you send a big amount of btc with a low fee?  How long does a transaction take now if you send using the nano ledger s now and paying the minimum amount in fees?  Would the transaction get stuck?  I recalled years ago I sent btc with electrum and paid the lowest fees and it took like a day or so until i went to that viabtc accelerator site to make it go faster.



I got to assume people who send big amounts aren't playing around with getting cheap on sending fees right?  I know there is that replace fee where you could make a higher fee payment later to make it go faster but is that only with electrum and nano ledger s doesn't work there?



I got to wonder how much fees people are playing when they are sending like 5k or l0k worth of btc or more.  Would most use the average fee or pay a lot to make transaction go faster?



Has there been transactions stuck where it just go stuck though?

[joniboini]

Are people sending bigger amounts of btc now... almost always sending the recommended fee now?  Imagine someone sending like 0.05 or something huge like lbtc to coinbase or to someone. 

Who knows. Check out block explorer if you're interested in finding them.

I can't imagine someone paying the least amount of fees right to send it?    Like wouldn't most of you feel a bit nervous if you send a big amount of btc with a low fee?  How long does a transaction take now if you send using the nano ledger s now and paying the minimum amount in fees?  Would the transaction get stuck?  I recalled years ago I sent btc with electrum and paid the lowest fees and it took like a day or so until i went to that viabtc accelerator site to make it go faster.

You can always check the latest mempool condition with block explorer, that's why you should double-check before sending your tx. As long as you use RBF I don't think it's that problematic. Most exchanges also recognize RBF transactions right now afaik.

I got to assume people who send big amounts aren't playing around with getting cheap on sending fees right?  I know there is that replace fee where you could make a higher fee payment later to make it go faster but is that only with electrum and nano ledger s doesn't work there?

You can connect Nano S to Electrum anyway, that's not a big problem for me.

Has there been transactions stuck where it just go stuck though?

Yeah, many times. Most consolidation transactions take days or weeks before they got confirmed since people usually use 1 sats/vbyte for the fees.

[ranochigo]

Are people sending bigger amounts of btc now... almost always sending the recommended fee now?  Imagine someone sending like 0.05 or something huge like lbtc to coinbase or to someone. 

There is no such thing as recommended fee. The median fees are probably higher if the person wants it to be confirmed within a set period of time. I'd imagine transactions sending 0.05BTC is not rare at all.

I can't imagine someone paying the least amount of fees right to send it?    Like wouldn't most of you feel a bit nervous if you send a big amount of btc with a low fee?  How long does a transaction take now if you send using the nano ledger s now and paying the minimum amount in fees?  Would the transaction get stuck?  I recalled years ago I sent btc with electrum and paid the lowest fees and it took like a day or so until i went to that viabtc accelerator site to make it go faster.

If you're using the wallet's built in fees estimation, it is probably fairly conservative and does the job most of the time. Opt-in RBF will solve the problem and that is why it is a recommendation to have it enabled. If your fees are too low, it is easy to just replace it.

I got to wonder how much fees people are playing when they are sending like 5k or l0k worth of btc or more.  Would most use the average fee or pay a lot to make transaction go faster?

I'm not sure about the point of this question. Your choices of fees will only depend on your priority; do you want it to be confirmed ASAP or are you fine with waiting for a few more hours or days for it to confirm? I personally have pretty large transactions in terms of the total value with lower fees as they're mostly just consolidation and I don't actively spend it anyways. Just RBF it if you need it to be confirmed.

Has there been transactions stuck where it just go stuck though?

No transactions would get "stuck" forever.

[Pmalek]

Are people sending bigger amounts of btc now... almost always sending the recommended fee now?  Imagine someone sending like 0.05 or something huge like lbtc to coinbase or to someone. 

Bitcoin has a big liquidity around the clock. Users didn't stop transacting during the 2017 bull run and the same can be said even now. Here are just two examples where over 12 bitcoins were sent in the previous couple of blocks:

https://blockstream.info/address/bc1qak4xrmtsrlluevwfdvuh7rrcac3mpcjzqd0j2y
https://blockstream.info/address/bc1q3u4fcwu5wj2pam56xzdfzx4xtjaa8ctesedefz 

You do know that that amount of bitcoin you send has no influence on the transaction fees right? A 0.01 BTC transaction can cost you more than a 1 BTC transaction if it has more inputs/outputs and thus weighs more.