Just created an account with Gemini & have questions

[OROBTC]

...

But have not yet submitted any KYC documents or my bank info, nor tried to make any trades, etc.  Just my email validation and cell number (for 2FA).  I have never used an exchange before

• My main intention (at least for now) is to prepare to sell BTC for cash bit by bit as BTC rises more in price.  Later I may trade (probably not, except for maybe buying BTC upon substantial price declines).   Most of my BTC is thoroughly mixed/tumbled/CoinJoined.  I do not have LARGE amounts of BTC, but not trivial either.  Am I likely to have problems "cashing in", say, 0.2 BTC (wire transfer to my bank account once in a while) with mixed BTC?  I read about many people having problems with exchanges giving them a hard time about "issues" (most seem to be related to KYC issues, but perhaps some re "tainted" BTC).  I am OK (sort-of OK, don't like it, but I'll do it) with going through the whole KYC rigamarole, I have done that elsewhere, but what might I expect from Gemini?
• Do they have humans to talk to?  I am likely to have various questions...  I could not find any easy emails, for example, when examining Gemini's website nor Coinbase's.  I went with Gemini (for now) because it was easier to figure out how to set up the account.
• What is this business of "Source of Funds" all about?  Is it an issue if I want to sell BTC?  I have bought BTC pretty regularly in small amount since 2013 (and keeping track of Cost Basis and Selling Prices for taxation records.  But, the money I have used all these years has been mine, what sorts of issues might concern Gemini about this?

THANK YOU for any observations or suggestions you might have.

[figmentofmyass]

But have not yet submitted any KYC documents or my bank info, nor tried to make any trades, etc.  Just my email validation and cell number (for 2FA). I have never used an exchange before

you're in the states, right? before you do anything else---do you have a REAL ID? if not, don't bother. they won't verify you.

Most of my BTC is thoroughly mixed/tumbled/CoinJoined.  I do not have LARGE amounts of BTC, but not trivial either.  Am I likely to have problems "cashing in", say, 0.2 BTC (wire transfer to my bank account once in a while) with mixed BTC?  I read about many people having problems with exchanges giving them a hard time about "issues" (most seem to be related to KYC issues, but perhaps some re "tainted" BTC).  I am OK (sort-of OK, don't like it, but I'll do it) with going through the whole KYC rigamarole, I have done that elsewhere, but what might I expect from Gemini?

gemini does mention mixing/tumbling in their terms. it probably depends how your coins were mixed. there have been multiple public instances where coinjoins got peoples' accounts flagged at other exchanges---not so much for centralized mixers.

gemini doesn't tell people why their accounts are being closed, they just close them, so it's hard to say with any certainty how they approach the issue.

Do they have humans to talk to?  I am likely to have various questions...  I could not find any easy emails, for example, when examining Gemini's website nor Coinbase's.  I went with Gemini (for now) because it was easier to figure out how to set up the account.

i'm not sure but according to their "contact us" page, you can open a ticket, call them, or DM on twitter for support. https://support.gemini.com/hc/en-us/articles/204732835-Contact-us

What is this business of "Source of Funds" all about?  Is it an issue if I want to sell BTC?  I have bought BTC pretty regularly in small amount since 2013 (and keeping track of Cost Basis and Selling Prices for taxation records.  But, the money I have used all these years has been mine, what sorts of issues might concern Gemini about this?

it has to do with this: https://www.gemini.com/legal/user-agreement#section-source-of-funds

basically, they wanna cover their ass and make sure you aren't using illegally obtained funds or funds that aren't yours. they don't wanna be used as a money laundering instrument, or facilitate money transmission on behalf of anyone else but you.

if they don't like your answers or you exhibit some account activity they deem risky, i reckon they will close your account.

[hugeblack]

You will be suspected in two cases: If you withdraw in amounts greater than the volumes that you normally did during the previous period.
If it was sent and the last sent address from coinjoin Tx.

Most of these processes are automatic, so the more you try to avoid them, the less risk. I suggest you start with small trades and increase them gradually and use a mixing service or send money from an address that was not sent to coinjoin.

[OROBTC]

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figment, huge

Thank you, gentlemen, I will see what info I can get from them today.  The more I know about their policies, the more I will feel confidence in dealing with them.

Yes, I am an American here in the states with proper ID.

And I also now (and will have an even better idea later) on how mixed/coinjoined BTC are treated.  I will try to keep from doing sudden and large transactions, mine will not be LARGE anyway.


EDIT:  If they wind up closing my account, well that's life as long as they don't steal my BTC...

[bitmover]

Most of my BTC is thoroughly mixed/tumbled/CoinJoined.  I do not have LARGE amounts of BTC, but not trivial either.  Am I likely to have problems "cashing in", say, 0.2 BTC (wire transfer to my bank account once in a while) with mixed BTC?  I read about many people having problems with exchanges giving them a hard time about "issues" (most seem to be related to KYC issues, but perhaps some re "tainted" BTC).  I am OK (sort-of OK, don't like it, but I'll do it) with going through the whole KYC rigamarole, I have done that elsewhere, but what might I expect from Gemini?

gemini does mention mixing/tumbling in their terms. it probably depends how your coins were mixed. there have been multiple public instances where coinjoins got peoples' accounts flagged at other exchanges---not so much for centralized mixers.

gemini doesn't tell people why their accounts are being closed, they just close them, so it's hard to say with any certainty how they approach the issue.

And I also now (and will have an even better idea later) on how mixed/coinjoined BTC are treated.  I will try to keep from doing sudden and large transactions, mine will not be LARGE anyway.


EDIT:  If they wind up closing my account, well that's life as long as they don't steal my BTC...

I think the best approach regarding this problem is  to send a small amount of your mixed funds to Gemini. Cash out and try to withdrawal the usd. If everything is ok,  sell again a small amount and so on. If someday they decide to freeze your account,  which can happen at any time because their terms and regulations could change, you will not lose a lot

[OROBTC]

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bitmover, yes I will try something like that.  Slowly build up my BTC sales.  "Slowly" being the operative word, as I believe that BTC's future is great.

My mindset is to sell bit by bit almost any intangible asset if it goes up a lot.

I have NO intention of selling all of my BTC though...

[OROBTC]

...

It took a few days, for "reasons", but I am now an official member of Gemini.  In fact I executed my first BTC transfer to them as well as selling some for CA$H (wire transfer to my bank account).  For small money as an experiment.

Gemini said it would take one business day to do the wire transfer.  I made the sale Thursday evening, I hope that wire goes out by close of business tomorrow, else it will be Monday (groan).  Looks pretty good so far.

Customer service has been very slow though.  I still have one matter unaddressed by then, but that may get answered automatically (whether they accept mixed/CoinJoined BTC) once they see my sale so far.

My initial assessment of Gemini is that they are very security-conscious and that the dashboard and links to actions (transfers of funds & cryptos in and out, sales, trading) seem straightforward.  Despite my "Legendary" status BS, if it's something new re Bitcoin that I have not done myself, I always act slowly.  If I can figure out how to do this, almost anyone else here at bitcointalk can too.

At this point I am only selling BTC for FIAT$, taking profits from the huge run-up since mid-December (last time I bought).  Price goes down enough, or if I'm feeling lucky, I now can buy for cheaper than at the BTC ATMs.  I am NOT trading for s**tcoins, no interest.  Gemini offers such trades with about 15 alts, did not count, but that's about right.

[Dabs]

Try this next time. Move the coins you intend to cash out to one of your own addresses first. So the immediate transaction before it was the CoinJoin one. Wait for a few blocks or confirmations, then move it again to another address. Then, move that to the exchange.

Yes, you will lose the transaction fees twice or as many times as you moved it. Use native segwit addresses (the ones starting with bc1q.)

A lot of centralized exchanges do not look back very far in the coin's history, as an automatic process anyway.

However, if the first sell worked and you get your wire to your bank account, I guess this is not needed. You might want to do it anyway in preparation for future transactions.

[OROBTC]

Try this next time. Move the coins you intend to cash out to one of your own addresses first. So the immediate transaction before it was the CoinJoin one. Wait for a few blocks or confirmations, then move it again to another address. Then, move that to the exchange.

Yes, you will lose the transaction fees twice or as many times as you moved it. Use native segwit addresses (the ones starting with bc1q.)

A lot of centralized exchanges do not look back very far in the coin's history, as an automatic process anyway.

However, if the first sell worked and you get your wire to your bank account, I guess this is not needed. You might want to do it anyway in preparation for future transactions.

Thanks for that observation.  So far I have now sold three "schnitzels" of BTC with them. 

I did what you suggested kind of inadvertently, sending BTC to my Wasabi wallet first to stage them, yep, "bc1q".

I did alert their Support that I had mixed BTC.  I'll report back once I have better clarity.

[Dabs]

Most exchanges would prefer that you have some sort of "normal" income. If you are employed or have a business, use that as your excuse. Don't say you mined it or gambled it and doubled your corns from satoshidice or any "weird" sources of income.

And remember that they hate facebook.. Or at least the owners do. hehe.

[OROBTC]

Most exchanges would prefer that you have some sort of "normal" income. If you are employed or have a business, use that as your excuse. Don't say you mined it or gambled it and doubled your corns from satoshidice or any "weird" sources of income.

And remember that they hate facebook.. Or at least the owners do. hehe.

By happy coincidence, they just emailed me that they did not see any issues with me telling them that I had mixed BTC!  'Course I am not a whale, and there were a couple of hops between mix/joins.  I also told them I would be selling some BTC slowly over the next weeks.

Maybe they looked into me or my bank, these guys may be able to investigate "out the wazoo".

Retired!  No gambling, no income.  Wait......

[OROBTC]

...

I have now sold a few pieces of my BTC hoard, and just today received a wire transfer that I requested to my bank account.

So, Gemini works as well as I had hoped!

I have not worked with any other exchange.  But, I had read reviews and comments here at BTCtalk about many of them.  So, I chose a solid, security-oriented US firm knowing that I would go ahead and do the full KYC process.  I also alerted them in advance that much of my BTC had been mixed in the past, but so far no problems.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

So, Gemini works as well as I had hoped!

Bro, I am being sincere when I tell you that I'm very happy for you--I read an article yesterday mention in this thread about how a journalist was finding it really hard to buy bitcoin, and one of the exchanges he mentioned was Gemini.  And ever since Circle stopped selling bitcoin I've been having a problem buying bitcoin on exchanges as well, so I created an account with Gemini.  Right now it's in the process of being verified, and I haven't tried to buy anything yet.

I have no doubt that they're like Coinbase in so far as they kind of have to look into where your bitcoin is coming from and going to, but that doesn't have me all that concerned.  I'm not gambling or buying anything illegal with any bitcoin I buy from them, and I don't plan on selling or otherwise depositing any bitcoin onto Gemini. 

Should be interesting to see whether I'm actually going to be able to make a purchase and withdraw it to my own wallet.  Wish me luck.

[OROBTC]

So, Gemini works as well as I had hoped!

Bro, I am being sincere when I tell you that I'm very happy for you--I read an article yesterday mention in this thread about how a journalist was finding it really hard to buy bitcoin, and one of the exchanges he mentioned was Gemini.  And ever since Circle stopped selling bitcoin I've been having a problem buying bitcoin on exchanges as well, so I created an account with Gemini.  Right now it's in the process of being verified, and I haven't tried to buy anything yet.

I have no doubt that they're like Coinbase in so far as they kind of have to look into where your bitcoin is coming from and going to, but that doesn't have me all that concerned.  I'm not gambling or buying anything illegal with any bitcoin I buy from them, and I don't plan on selling or otherwise depositing any bitcoin onto Gemini.  

Should be interesting to see whether I'm actually going to be able to make a purchase and withdraw it to my own wallet.  Wish me luck.

Well, good luck!

You might want to drop their Support people a line with any questions if you have doubts.  You seem pretty sober-minded.  Might invite them to check out your trust rating here, very high!  I never mentioned bitcointalk though.

It is possible that if you have had your bank account a long time, that might help.

EDIT: Gemini looked a little easier to get into vs. Coinbase (at least it seemed that way to me).  I have no complaints about Gemini, but I was not in a big hurry.

[Dabs]

The Winklevoss brothers are backing another Canadian Bitcoin ETF, so they are very much pro-bitcoin, and they are the bitcoin billionaires. If you can't directly own bitcoin for whatever reasons (such as you want them in your government registered retirement accounts) then you can use these ETFs as proxies since they do track bitcoin.

Gemini shouldn't give most people too much problems. If you're selling, bounce it around a few times. If you're buying, bounce it once or twice if you intend to send it to anything questionable, otherwise just use it as normal.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

OK, so here's a followup:

I was able to easily add my debit card as a method of "instant funding" (or whatever they called it), and then after going through the KYC process they said the next step was to send a wire deposit to them(!). 

I've never sent money via wire before, and I really don't want to.  Therefore I figured if that was the only option to continue on Gemini, I would close my account.  Which I did.  I couldn't even buy bitcoin with the debit card that I'd entered.

Did I do something wrong here or what?

[Dabs]

I would have tried sending a small amount through wire and see if that opened up the other funding possibilities.

[figmentofmyass]

OK, so here's a followup:

I was able to easily add my debit card as a method of "instant funding" (or whatever they called it), and then after going through the KYC process they said the next step was to send a wire deposit to them(!). 

I've never sent money via wire before, and I really don't want to.  Therefore I figured if that was the only option to continue on Gemini, I would close my account.  Which I did.  I couldn't even buy bitcoin with the debit card that I'd entered.

Did I do something wrong here or what?

aren't you in the USA? are you sure you looked at all the deposit options? they definitely support ACH transfers.
https://www.gemini.com/blog/gemini-introduces-debit-card-support
https://support.gemini.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032219551-How-do-I-send-in-a-Bank-Transfer-ACH-deposit-

maybe they were just temporarily unavailable?

you did KYC already---it seems like a waste to just have them close your account now. they won't be deleting your account data.

i would probably email them to reopen your account, and then inquire about the availability of (free) ACH deposits if you don't see them listed on your deposit page. https://exchange.gemini.com/transfer/deposit

[vapourminer]

OK, so here's a followup:

[,,,] after going through the KYC process they said the next step was to send a wire deposit to them(!). 

I've never sent money via wire before, and I really don't want to.  Therefore I figured if that was the only option to continue on Gemini, I would close my account.  Which I did.  I couldn't even buy bitcoin with the debit card that I'd entered.

Did I do something wrong here or what?

i had to send a same day wire transfer to activate my gemini account too. just need to send a token amount from the account youve linked gemini to. after that its ACH all the way,

so, just something they do, and you just need to do it once.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

<snip>

Yeah, I can't get past this:



And if vapourminer is correct and you need to wire money to them, I'm not doing it.  Today I had to get a refund from Bitpay for an invoice that they fucked up and they made me go through full KYC procedures in order to get that refund (which still hasn't arrived).  Shit is no joke these days--I even had a much harder time renewing my driver's license this year.

George Orwell's vision is coming true, man.  Big Brother is glaring at us from everywhere.