BCVault or Ledger?

[swimyfish]

I had Ledger Nano in 2017. I haven't used it until a week ago and I couldn't get it to load properly with Ledger Live, the new app needed to use Ledger. Could be user or error could be software glitch. Makes me nervous.

Where should we store our coins? Do you like digital wallet or cold storage wallet? I've researched BC Vault and it seems impressive but it's newer. Company is 17 years old but the device is fairly new to crypto. Company from Slovenia.

Ledger is mainstream. Everyone seems to have it. I don't like that you have to use their pre-generated key/seed when it arrives. I don't like that the company security a breached. I have received a dozen emails in the last 5 days from Ledger Phishers. Anyone in the crypto business shouldn't be getting hacked.

I would love some opinions. If you use digital storage, what is the platform? Trust Wallet? Coinbase Wallet? Blockchain? If it's cold storage -- Ledger Nano X, Trezor, BC Vault?

How often do you check your balance, especially if it's a cold storage wallet? Thank you.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I don't understand why people need a hardware wallet just to have a cold storage. IMO, hardware wallets are essential if you want to be secure and transact money every day. In other words, hardware wallets are good as hot wallets. If you just want to keep your bitcoins for the next decade, in a manner of speaking, you can simply install electrum on an offline computer/laptop, verify it and then write your mnemonic on paper(s).

Company is 17 years old but the device is fairly new to crypto.

I don't know the company but 17 years does not tell me anything. Bitcoin started in 2009. I would go with ledger or trezor to be honest, even if I've never bought a hardware wallet.

[ranochigo]

I don't understand why people need a hardware wallet just to have a cold storage. IMO, hardware wallets are essential if you want to be secure and transact money every day. In other words, hardware wallets are good as hot wallets. If you just want to keep your bitcoins for the next decade, in a manner of speaking, you can simply install electrum on an offline computer/laptop, verify it and then write your mnemonic on paper(s).
I don't know the company but 17 years does not tell me anything. Bitcoin started in 2009. I would go with ledger or trezor to be honest, even if I've never bought a hardware wallet.

It's way more foolproof and safer to get a HW wallet than a cold storage. It's not that easy for newbies to manage cold storage and arguably offers more reassurances against various attacks than most cold storage, which mainly protects the user against malware attacks only. Many great points for and against HW wallet here[1].

Anyhow, OP I wouldn't go with BCVault. I can't find any reliable information about them and I cant find the source code for anything related to their device. Ledger or any other more well known wallet would be a better choice, and I don't think BCVault even support BIP39 or other seed standards. Not sure why.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5304062.0

[pixie85]

It's probably a software problem.

One of the things that you can do is make sure the cable you use to connect your ledger is ok. Buy a new one if you suspect it could be broken inside.

Install ledger software on another device and try to connect it there.

What message do you get when you connect it? Does it light up and show connection on its screen?

[DdmrDdmr]

I had Ledger Nano in 2017. I haven't used it until a week ago and I couldn't get it to load properly with Ledger Live, the new app needed to use Ledger. Could be user or error could be software glitch. <…>

It could be a firmware related issue. Ledger used to work with Chrome Apps, but, as we know, later changed to using their Ledger Live. In order to do so, they also set a minimum firmware requirement for the device to work with the new software (v 1.3.1 at least).

<...>

On Ledger’s support page for upgrading the firmware (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113) it states:

Firmware versions below 1.3.1 cannot be updated with Ledger Live. Please submit a support request to get a replacement device.

Therefore, that is the necessary path to follow.

There is also a general recommendation by Ledger to update the firmware regularly (see https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003117594)

Do I have to update my Ledger Nano S if I am not using it?

We recommend regularly updating your devices to benefit from the optimal security level and user experience offered by our products.

Take a look at the complete thread to see it it your case: Topic: Need help updating old Ledger Nano S firmware 1.2.

If that is your case, you’d need to contact Ledger support, and they could/should replace the device (and hopefully not leak the data). Obviously, you'd need to keep your 24 word mnemonic safe, and reset your device before even considering parting with it in any way.

[livingfree]

You have a different opinion about having a hardware wallet. The connection between the Ledger hardware wallet and the Ledger Live App is needed.

It's more securing and verifying. I don't find an error while I use them. And before you send your funds out of the hardware, you have to verify it through the hardware.

I'll still choose a hardware wallet of them all. And I'll avoid keeping those web wallets as a storage.

Look for a solution on their support page.

[Zionatin]

It is difficult to help you when your explanation is not easy to understand and there is not enough info given. I have a ledger too and I am interested in what has happened with yours. I use the ledger as my main "bank account" which is my permanent account for savings. I then use exodus on my laptop as a "hot wallet" which I use to make payments for things like Netflix, Webhosting, video games, advertising, investments, gift cards etc.

I've never had a problem with either. I have secure backups of both in a secure locaton. I own 3 physical copies of my private keys. My ledger is also in a secure place. (right under your nose) but its the last place you will think to look until you know about it If I ever have a problem with the ledger I can simply use the private key to retrieve my wallet.

[swimyfish]

If I ever have a problem with the ledger I can simply use the private key to retrieve my wallet.

Can you please elaborate -- if you lose your original Ledger Nano device can you take the private key and input on any device and retrieve your coins?

Also, the Ledger device gives you a pre-select list of words for the private key.... why is that? Why can't I create my own? Wouldn't that be safer? What if someone hacked in to all the list of private keys from the Ledger company... how is it that the pre-select list of words is really safe if it was loaded don to the device before I purchased it...?

[ranochigo]

Can you please elaborate -- if you lose your original Ledger Nano device can you take the private key and input on any device and retrieve your coins?

Yes. But you're supposed to use the mnemoric seeds to restore your private keys.

Also, the Ledger device gives you a pre-select list of words for the private key.... why is that? Why can't I create my own? Wouldn't that be safer? What if someone hacked in to all the list of private keys from the Ledger company... how is it that the pre-select list of words is really safe if it was loaded don to the device before I purchased it...?

No. The mnemoric seeds are generated by the device's with randomness, they're never preloaded or generated by Ledger and Ledger should never know or have access to your keys. Ledger uses their secure element as a source of randomness.

Humans tends to be very bad at selecting words from the text. The biasness present in every selection, no matter how random you think it is will always result in your security being compromised. It is much safer for the device to generate the seed for you.

[Oshosondy]

Can you please elaborate -- if you lose your original Ledger Nano device can you take the private key and input on any device and retrieve your coins?

Afaik, ledger will only generate you seed phrase. You can input the seed phrase on electrum wallet (and many other bip39) wallets to generate your whole wallet with your balance.

Also, the Ledger device gives you a pre-select list of words for the private key.... why is that? Why can't I create my own? Wouldn't that be safer? What if someone hacked in to all the list of private keys from the Ledger company... how is it that the pre-select list of words is really safe if it was loaded don to the device before I purchased it...?

Noncustodial hd wallets will generate you seed phrase for backup which can be used to recover your bitcoin and other funds during wallet damage or lost. HD wallets generate seed phrase which is normal, it is not according ledger company but according to how HD wallet works. You can not create your own seed phrase, wallet automatically generate that for you.

how is it that the pre-select list of words is really safe if it was loaded don to the device before I purchased it...?

The seed phrase is generated after you open the wallet, not loaded to the wallet before you purchase it. You can read wallet part of master bitcoin to understand more about this by clicking the link below. The seed phrase is safe and secure provided if you store it safety and avoid hackers from reaching it.

https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/ch05.asciidoc

What if someone hacked in to all the list of private keys from the Ledger company

The issue of a wallet to be open source or close source have to be addressed here. Normally seed phrase is safe but vulnerabilities in wallet can make it to still be reached by hackers. That is why open source codes are better than close source because of transparency. But ledger wallet is closed source, you can only trust the company not to have vulnerabilities in the wallet that can reveal your seed phrase but it can actually happen as it is close sources. If vulnerability is in open source, it will be removed because many people are willing to work on it but unlike close source that you do not know the source code, even if vulnerability is in close source, you can not know until your funds are all gone. Although, I am not saying ledger is like that, but letting you knowing how open source codes are better.

[swimyfish]

Can you please elaborate -- if you lose your original Ledger Nano device can you take the private key and input on any device and retrieve your coins?

Afaik, ledger will only generate you seed phrase. You can input the seed phrase on electrum wallet (and many other bip39) wallets to generate your whole wallet with your balance.

So are you saying that I can take my seed phrase that was generated on Ledger and input it on Electrum wallet and recover my funds if ever needed - like if the Ledger device had a failure?

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to me, your insight in valuable and I appreciate it.

[Lucius]

swimyfish, the 24 words generated by your hardware wallet can be used to recover your coins using almost any crypto wallet today, whether it is a hardware or desktop wallet.

However, if you choose a desktop wallet for recovery, it would mean abandoning the security of what you have achieved with a hardware wallet - and that is that the seed is not exposed anywhere else except in the device itself and as a backup on paper, metal or similar. Sometimes I might recommend you to try this or that wallet, but after the scandal that Ledger has prepared for his users, I will only tell you to decide for yourself where and how you will store your coins.

As for BC Vault, I looked at their website and at first glance they seem to have an interesting product, and they definitely have a unique approach.

Each and every BC Vault ships pre-loaded with 1.0 BTC. If you break the encryption on it, its yours!

[ranochigo]

So are you saying that I can take my seed phrase that was generated on Ledger and input it on Electrum wallet and recover my funds if ever needed - like if the Ledger device had a failure?

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to me, your insight in valuable and I appreciate it.

Correct. That's why people usually choose wallets that generates BIP39 seeds. It gives them the liberty of only backing it up once only while allowing them to generate essentially unlimited number of addresses to be used.

On the other hand, I can't find BCVault using HD seeds but I think they're asking their users to back it up to an SD card and it can only be restored on another BCVault device. If your device fails, you'll probably have to buy another one.