BITCOIN FORUM account opened today. So many questions.......lets talk anonymity

[Ponce75]

I used to be the guy that trashed bitcoin but i decided to do alot of research and finally bought in at around 15.5K; needless to say i am happy with my overall return thus far.

Question on anonymity.  I bought my Bitcoin from Coinbase (like i said newbie), anyway, I learned what a wallet is and decided to transfer my bitcoin.  I also learned i can be tracked via my bitcoin address because of my initial purchase from Coinbase (KYC).

Can i clean my bitcoin by sending it to an exchange like Houbi, then sell and repurchase, then send it to a brand new wallet?

Or convert to Ethereum wait a few days and then reconvert to bitcoin?

Am i overthinking this?   Anybody wanna help a brother out.  Thanks.

[ranochigo]

Welcome! Glad you've bought early.

While you can send your Bitcoins across various exchanges, it doesn't guarantee that the intermediary exchange will not keep logs and it's thus not beneficial to the privacy.

You can use Wasabi wallet which can incorporate CoinJoin to obfuscate the path of the coins. Alternatively, you can look into using mixers like the one in my signature to get coins that are unlinked. Altcoins like Monero are designed for privacy but it'll mean that you would need to go through another exchange.

[pealr12]

In addition to what has been said above, let me Welcome you to the forum as this is the right place to be to have all the knowledge you may need in your journey as a bitcoiner,
and also congratulations for making the right decision to buy btc at 15k, now you can relax and smile at your wallet.
And sorry I can't help with the btc mixing stuff since am not knowledgeable in that aspect.

[OROBTC]

...

Ponce75

Welcome.  bitcointalk.org has taught me a LOT over the years.  Take your time, read, learn and have fun.

Don't do anything drastic or at large scale until you learn more about the many facets of the Bitcoin Ecosystem.  Be specially careful at first, don't ruin more than one day making a big mistake (I've been there).

Anonymity is a big topic:

-- OPSEC (military acronym: Operational Security)

-- TOR and VPNs (TOR is free, a good VPN not too expensive)

-- BTC mixing and coinjoin  <== these two topics are discussed at some length at various places here at the Forum.

[cr1776]

I used to be the guy that trashed bitcoin but i decided to do alot of research and finally bought in at around 15.5K; needless to say i am happy with my overall return thus far.

Question on anonymity.  I bought my Bitcoin from Coinbase (like i said newbie), anyway, I learned what a wallet is and decided to transfer my bitcoin.  I also learned i can be tracked via my bitcoin address because of my initial purchase from Coinbase (KYC).

Can i clean my bitcoin by sending it to an exchange like Houbi, then sell and repurchase, then send it to a brand new wallet?

Or convert to Ethereum wait a few days and then reconvert to bitcoin?

Am i overthinking this?   Anybody wanna help a brother out.  Thanks.

In addition to what others have said above, selling and repurchasing won't buy you much, if anything.  Merely depositing it, waiting and then withdrawing a different amount first, and then the balance later would probably do as much.  You should make sure you are complying with the laws of your jurisdiction whatever you do though.  Converting to ether or something else works too, but if you convert 1.23456789 bitcoins to ether and then the exact same back a few days later, someone might notice.

Much also depends on your goals and timeframe. 

- If you intend to hold it for some long time period, you can just leave it where it is.  Once taproot is active, it will create some additional privacy improvements that you will be able to use to protect your privacy.
- If you intend to gamble with it now and IF online gambling is illegal in your jurisdiction, then you should consider different options.

So, is your goal to hold or something else?

[Ponce75]

Thanks.  I am excited to be part of the cryptoverse.  I have brought along a few converts from my family into Bitcoin as well.  I intend on HODLing but do not feel comfortable leaving it on the exchanges, especially non KYC exchanges which seem to be useful but shady as all heck.   It sounds like sending it to a non-KYC and then sending it back to a new wallet in smaller increments may be a viable option (according to some responses). 

I will also research some mixers (already looking at Wasabi Wallet). 

[Fatunad]

Can i clean my bitcoin by sending it to an exchange like Houbi, then sell and repurchase, then send it to a brand new wallet?

Or convert to Ethereum wait a few days and then reconvert to bitcoin?
.

When it comes to anonymity, then as you mentioned on buying coins from coinbase but in the time that you had sent out those coins in other wallet then it would already be enough
when you are really that mattering on anonymity issues. Platform wont know if that wallet on where the coins sent from is actually owned by you or into other person since
transferring out bitcoin from a custodial wallet wont really be that keen to follow if that one is a payment to other person or would just simply a single transaction to transfer to other wallet.
If you are really that serious on cleaning your trace then you can actually follow on what you had mentioned here.

[Akiko]

Thanks.  I am excited to be part of the cryptoverse.  I have brought along a few converts from my family into Bitcoin as well.  I intend on HODLing but do not feel comfortable leaving it on the exchanges, especially non KYC exchanges which seem to be useful but shady as all heck.   It sounds like sending it to a non-KYC and then sending it back to a new wallet in smaller increments may be a viable option (according to some responses). 

I will also research some mixers (already looking at Wasabi Wallet). 

Yes you can do that if it's not that big amount you can use binance without the need to verify your account for a limit of 2BTC daily if I'm  not mistaken ,you just need to update your account with Google authenticator . Mixer only use if you want to clean your Bitcoin since you legally bought it from exchange I don't think you still need to do that . You only want is to hide your main address from exchange that you bought your BTC  No kyc exchange is enough for that.

[RapTarX]

Yes you can do that if it's not that big amount you can use binance without the need to verify your account for a limit of 2BTC daily if I'm  not mistaken ,you just need to update your account with Google authenticator .

If you are going to use centralize exchange for such purpose, you have messed up. Binance will all the time keep the LOG of your history. So, even though Binance won't know the man behind the tx, Binance will certainly know the BTC origin (where you sent from) and the destination (where you are withdrawing) & thus, they can trace you. On the other hand, a mixer doesn't keep such log if they are good one like CM.

[o_e_l_e_o]

When it comes to anonymity, then as you mentioned on buying coins from coinbase but in the time that you had sent out those coins in other wallet then it would already be enough
when you are really that mattering on anonymity issues. Platform wont know if that wallet on where the coins sent from is actually owned by you or into other person since
transferring out bitcoin from a custodial wallet wont really be that keen to follow if that one is a payment to other person or would just simply a single transaction to transfer to other wallet.

This is not correct. Coinbase monitor all withdrawals from their exchange and employ advanced blockchain analysis technology to track these coins and the people who bought them. If OP bought from Coinbase and wants privacy, then he absolutely must take action here.

Mixer only use if you want to clean your Bitcoin since you legally bought it from exchange I don't think you still need to do that . You only want is to hide your main address from exchange that you bought your BTC  No kyc exchange is enough for that.

This is also not correct. All exchanges, be they KYC or non-KYC, keep logs of deposits, trades, withdrawals, etc., and can be forced at any time to hand that over to governments, law enforcement, three letter agencies, or anyone else who comes knocking or offers to pay. Using exchanges to "mix" coins is probably making your privacy worse, not better. Using real mixers is also for anyone who wants privacy - it has nothing to do with whether the coins were obtained legally or not.


The best advice given in this thread is from ranochigo. If you want to break the link between your coins and your real identity, then you need to use a service which is designed for doing just that, such as ChipMixer to mix your coins, or Wasabi Wallet to CoinJoin them.

[20kevin20]

Privacy, anonymity and Bitcoin are quite sensible subjects to say the least. You cannot achieve a high level of privacy unless you become paranoid. You have potential backdoors and flaws everywhere, so what I like to do is I consider everything I do as a potential danger for my privacy.

Example: you want to transfer funds from your Electrum wallet. The easiest way to do it is just go to the Send tab and use the simple UI to send a tx. However, the convenient way of using Electrum to send txs may harm your privacy because you might end up using together anonymized with non-anonymized coins. The solution is.. coin control.

If you want to break the chain of coins linked to your identity, you could consider:
 1. Using Bisq and/or HodlHodl as an exchange for your future transactions
 2. Using a reputable mixer such as ChipMixer
 3. Using Wasabi's CoinJoin to join coins together anonymously (remember: you need a minimum of ~0.1 BTC to do that, the fees may be higher than you wish and you will get a change you should take care of.
 4. If you're not in a hurry, you could even use JoinMarket's Yield Generator to make (very small amounts of) Bitcoin while continuously anonymizing your coins.

Jumping from exchange to exchange only probably makes an authority question your txs even more than they would normally do so. Imagine having 2 suspects out of which one of them exchanges normally and withdraws to their personal wallet while the other just keeps jumping from deposit to deposit addresses.

The cheapest way to anonymize your coins is currently ChipMixer or JoinMarket. Out of these two, the most convenient is ChipMixer. Remember: if you mix/join coins, be careful not to ever use them together with non-mixed/non-joined addresses again!

[Ponce75]

Awesome breakdown thanks.  Currently using Wasabi Wallet (showing registration 30 mins remaining)  I will provide an update for any other newbies who might be interested on how it turned out.

[teosanru]

Even though this should be in Beginners & Help rather than being here. But coming back to the point I think it's better that you use a mixer to clean the slate. I have seen some people have mentioned XMR. Definitely, Monero is the safest among the rest of the cryptos and most anonymous. Talking about Mixers and as you are new to the forum I would give a caveat from my side, I have recently seen agencies especially in the US don't have a very positive attitude towards these mixers. I have read a lot of news where the Mixers owners were actually arrested for operating these mixers but no such news is heard about the users. While on an exchange I think it's safe but that seriously depends a lot on exchange to exchange. It's not that difficult to trace out your Deposit & Withdrawal History once they have your exchange account.

[20kevin20]

Talking about Mixers and as you are new to the forum I would give a caveat from my side, I have recently seen agencies especially in the US don't have a very positive attitude towards these mixers. I have read a lot of news where the Mixers owners were actually arrested for operating these mixers but no such news is heard about the users.

This is something that's unfortunately becoming more and more common, but if you start using mixers and breaking the chain then I honestly don't think it makes sense, after breaking it, to send the coins again through mixers. You either go anonymous or you don't.

While on an exchange I think it's safe but that seriously depends a lot on exchange to exchange. It's not that difficult to trace out your Deposit & Withdrawal History once they have your exchange account.

It might be "safe" (depends what you mean by that), but it's not privacy-enhancing. In fact, it is most often the opposite. Once your IP is recorded with a withdrawal request, they know it's also you who deposited. Sending money from exchange to exchange is like moving money from bank to bank hoping the government will not find you.

[jademaxsuy]

Well, if for some reason someone really wanted to track you even if you used another wallet with the initial KYC you had made is still possible that you can be trace. But it does need to have a special access in regards with data privacy in which coinbase was holding it in your case. No ome will know that you are the one holding that bitcoin with coinbase provided unless they will going to share it to someone wanted to gey track on your btc holdings. In my case, probably my wife starting to trace my btc holdings because she wanted me not to hide anything from her. Fortunately she haf a hard time learning about bitcoin so I am safe that she will not know I had small savings in btc.

[hugeblack]

Since you are a beginner, learn a lot and experiment in small quantities as the same rules that apply to 1 Bitcoin will apply to .1 Bitcoin if you understand how it works?
I am learning from watching videos and experimenting, so follow some of these channels:

 - https://www.youtube.com/user/aantonop
 - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQQ_fGcMDxlKre3SEqEWrLA
and you can learn from reading books.

Privacy requires that a person knows what to do, just because you used wasabi does not mean that you are safe unless you know how to protect yourself, for example, it is necessary to run fullnode wallet, use VPN, and so on.

How much privacy do you want to learn? What is the reason to hide your identity?

[Greatdev]

For every coins or exchanges you switch to you can still be tracked, even if you change from Bitcoin to BCH for example you have leave a footprint in the ground to follow, to stay anonymous you need bitcoin mixer, I haven't used such before but I heard this is the way to truly stay anonymous with bitcoin

[Findingnemo]

For every coins or exchanges you switch to you can still be tracked, even if you change from Bitcoin to BCH for example you have leave a footprint in the ground to follow, to stay anonymous you need bitcoin mixer, I haven't used such before but I heard this is the way to truly stay anonymous with bitcoin

Not every coins but most of the coins can be tracked which also includes bitcoin when we buy them from any centralized services.Bitcoin mixers are great to leave to leave the track of our bitcoin traces but still it is not 100% like coinjoin method.Since the user already mentioned that he is using Wasabi wallet then everything is good so far.

[Oshosondy]

For every coins or exchanges you switch to you can still be tracked,

There are many anonymous cryptocurrencies, examples are monero and dash. These coins can not be tracked because it is not possible to track the coins using blockchian. Making use of coinjoin or mixer are perfect but converting bitcoin to such anonymous coins like monero then back to bitcoin is also good which will make the bitcoin not to be traced to the previous transactions.

[o_e_l_e_o]

There are many anonymous cryptocurrencies, examples are monero and dash.

Dash is not anonymous by any stretch of the imagination.

Making use of coinjoin or mixer are perfect but converting bitcoin to such anonymous coins like monero then back to bitcoin is also good which will make the bitcoin not to be traced to the previous transactions.

Monero is a good intermediary coin, but converting from Bitcoin to Monero and straight back again achieves very little. If you use the same exchange or swap service to do that, then it is entirely obvious to them what you have done, and they will keep logs of these transactions. If you want something approaching actual anonymity using this method, then you need to swap Bitcoin for Monero, move the Monero in multiple transactions of different amounts with intermediary hops (as many as possible over as long as possible) to a new wallet, and then swap it back for Bitcoin again in multiple transactions of different amounts, and do all of that over Tor.

While this is a very good method, it is also time consuming and complicated, and so most people will use a mixer or coinjoin instead.