Anyone has any information on nLocktime in Electrum

[krogoth]

Hi,
     Looking for information on nLocktime in Electrum.

      Want to create transactions that can only be released when a certain block height is reached.

     Is there any further information or link about this?

      Thanks!

[nc50lc]

You mean the nLocktime in the "advanced preview"?
That can only make the transaction unable to be broadcast before the set height or date, not some sort of bitcoin locking function.

Alternatively, you can save the transaction locally using "save" after signing it and broadcast the transaction when the nLocktime passed.

[NeuroticFish]

Want to create transactions that can only be released when a certain block height is reached.

     Is there any further information or link about this?

I guess you better read this thread: [Tutorial] Making your crypto inheritible
It covers exactly nLocktime in Electrum for locking funds until certain block.

But you'll have to read the thread further, since somebody talked about mempool not accepting tx too far in future (if I understood correctly).

[krogoth]

You mean the nLocktime in the "advanced preview"?
That can only make the transaction unable to be broadcast before the set height or date, not some sort of bitcoin locking function.

Alternatively, you can save the transaction locally using "save" after signing it and broadcast the transaction when the nLocktime passed.

Thanks.....I would use it to create a raw transaction that can only be executed when that block number has been reached or passed..that what I meant by locked.

         Thanks for the input..cheers

[krogoth]

Want to create transactions that can only be released when a certain block height is reached.

     Is there any further information or link about this?

I guess you better read this thread: [Tutorial] Making your crypto inheritible
It covers exactly nLocktime in Electrum for locking funds until certain block.

But you'll have to read the thread further, since somebody talked about mempool not accepting tx too far in future (if I understood correctly).

Thanks! Will do.

[ranochigo]

Thanks.....I would use it to create a raw transaction that can only be executed when that block number has been reached or passed..that what I meant by locked.

         Thanks for the input..cheers

Non-final transactions are not accepted by mempool as it'll allow for cheap mempool flooding. What's your use case for timelocked transactions? Would OP_CLTV work better for you? It's a P2SH address with inputs that is only spendable at certain height/time.

Electrum allows you to set a custom nLocktime but you cannot broadcast the transaction as nodes will not allow it. However, you can save it and send it to whoever you link.

[krogoth]

Thanks.....I would use it to create a raw transaction that can only be executed when that block number has been reached or passed..that what I meant by locked.

         Thanks for the input..cheers

Non-final transactions are not accepted by mempool as it'll allow for cheap mempool flooding. What's your use case for timelocked transactions? Would OP_CLTV work better for you? It's a P2SH address with inputs that is only spendable at certain height/time.

Electrum allows you to set a custom nLocktime but you cannot broadcast the transaction as nodes will not allow it. However, you can save it and send it to whoever you link.

    My case would be to make a few that can only be transacted in a few years...what better way to hodl?

     Kinda like these..  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228739.0

[ranochigo]

My case would be to make a few that can only be transacted in a few years...what better way to hodl?

     Kinda like these..  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228739.0

Ah okay, fair enough. nLocktime could suit you as long as you can take care to not lose your receiving address then I guess you can just use Electrum's UI and export your own raw transaction.

If you'd like, you can try exploring OP_CheckLockTimeVerify P2SH addresses. You'll be able to create a scripthash address which will lock your outputs till the block/time. Afterwhich, you can just create and sign your transactions as per usual. Benefit of that is that you can send to whichever address you want in the future and won't be restricted to that address specified in the nLockTime transaction.

See: https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked for a nice UI to create your nLocktime address. You'll just need to keep the redeem script safe but to be fair, you can generate the redeem script anytime you want, just use the same public key and the same nLockTime date/block.

I won't (put) large amount of my funds into any nLockTime transactions. I prefer having some form of control over when to spend most of my coins. Perhaps just a bit locked in there as a fun experiment.

[krogoth]

My case would be to make a few that can only be transacted in a few years...what better way to hodl?

     Kinda like these..  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228739.0

Ah okay, fair enough. nLocktime could suit you as long as you can take care to not lose your receiving address then I guess you can just use Electrum's UI and export your own raw transaction.

If you'd like, you can try exploring OP_CheckLockTimeVerify P2SH addresses. You'll be able to create a scripthash address which will lock your outputs till the block/time. Afterwhich, you can just create and sign your transactions as per usual. Benefit of that is that you can send to whichever address you want in the future and won't be restricted to that address specified in the nLockTime transaction.

See: https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked for a nice UI to create your nLocktime address. You'll just need to keep the redeem script safe but to be fair, you can generate the redeem script anytime you want, just use the same public key and the same nLockTime date/block.

I won't large amount of my funds into any nLockTime transactions. I prefer having some form of control over when to spend most of my coins. Perhaps just a bit locked in there as a fun experiment.

  Thanks! And no...not large amount to be locked...it is for fun as well...I love experimenting with btc...just like the thread I made on sweeping paper wallets offline...i love this technology that is behind what makes btc tick.

[nc50lc]

You mean the nLocktime in the "advanced preview"?
That can only make the transaction unable to be broadcast before the set height or date, not some sort of bitcoin locking function.

Alternatively, you can save the transaction locally using "save" after signing it and broadcast the transaction when the nLocktime passed.

Thanks.....I would use it to create a raw transaction that can only be executed when that block number has been reached or passed..that what I meant by locked.

That will do but the "execution" is manual (I mean the broadcast after the nLocktime) and saving it locally to your Electrum wallet is a good option if you're using the wallet frequently,
saving it as a local transaction will prevent that wallet from using the specific UTXO used by that transaction; though, not in other instances of your wallet if you have any.

[krogoth]

You mean the nLocktime in the "advanced preview"?
That can only make the transaction unable to be broadcast before the set height or date, not some sort of bitcoin locking function.

Alternatively, you can save the transaction locally using "save" after signing it and broadcast the transaction when the nLocktime passed.

Thanks.....I would use it to create a raw transaction that can only be executed when that block number has been reached or passed..that what I meant by locked.

That will do but the "execution" is manual (I mean the broadcast after the nLocktime) and saving it locally to your Electrum wallet is a good option if you're using the wallet frequently,
saving it as a local transaction will prevent that wallet from using the specific UTXO used by that transaction; though, not in other instances of your wallet if you have any.

   So if i used trezor tied in with electrum...then your saying there is a chance the btc used for this timelock can be spent? If so how does one prevent that from happening?

[ranochigo]

So if i used trezor tied in with electrum...then your saying there is a chance the btc used for this timelock can be spent? If so how does one prevent that from happening?

If someone has access to your seeds, they can construct a transaction and spend your funds anytime they want. Your timelocked transaction cannot be in the mempool until it's expiry. This also means that your timelock funds won't be truly bounded to the time unless you:
1) Destroy all traces of private key/seed after creating and saving the transaction.
2) Ensure that no one else can have access to your keys or seeds.


In gist, the only way for you to spend the funds within is only with that nLockTime transaction. The nLocktime only sticks with your specific transaction and not to the funds in your address.

For that reason, I prefer the P2SH method. It ensures that the funds within that address are only spendable at that specific date or block.

[krogoth]

So if i used trezor tied in with electrum...then your saying there is a chance the btc used for this timelock can be spent? If so how does one prevent that from happening?

If someone has access to your seeds, they can construct a transaction and spend your funds anytime they want. Your timelocked transaction cannot be in the mempool until it's expiry. This also means that your timelock funds won't be truly bounded to the time unless you:
1) Destroy all traces of private key/seed after creating and saving the transaction.
2) Ensure that no one else can have access to your keys or seeds.


In gist, the only way for you to spend the funds within is only with that nLockTime transaction. The nLocktime only sticks with your specific transaction and not to the funds in your address.

For that reason, I prefer the P2SH method. It ensures that the funds within that address are only spendable at that specific date or block.

    I tried the link https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked

    Keeps on saying invalid date or pub addy...i changed multiple times..no luck. Can you try?

     I plan to make multiple ones on paper. So say if i have 1 btc in my Trezor...and i create 5 of these with 0.2btc on each....since they are not broadcast on blockchain...willntrezor wallet show 0 btc balance or 1btc until such time the tx is broadcast in the future? I mean the btc has not moved so i am assuming it will still say 1btc. How do i get around this that i do not accidently spend the locked in time btc.

   If i use electrum as source of btc...will electrum recognize this raw unbroadcastx and deduct from the remaining btc balance?

[ranochigo]

I tried the link https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked
Keeps on saying invalid date or pub addy...i changed multiple times..no luck. Can you try?

I think you're using your Bitcoin address instead of your ECDSA public key. Go to your Address, Right click and Press Details there should be a public key. If you're unsure of the redemption process, I recommend you to test it out first with a smaller amount to get a better understanding.

  I plan to make multiple ones on paper. So say if i have 1 btc in my Trezor...and i create 5 of these with 0.2btc on each....since they are not broadcast on blockchain...willntrezor wallet show 0 btc balance or 1btc until such time the tx is broadcast in the future? I mean the btc has not moved so i am assuming it will still say 1btc. How do i get around this that i do not accidently spend the locked in time btc.

1BTC. Remove the seed/wallet associated with the seed in the wallet.

If i use electrum as source of btc...will electrum recognize this raw unbroadcastx and deduct from the remaining btc balance?

No.

[krogoth]

I tried the link https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked
Keeps on saying invalid date or pub addy...i changed multiple times..no luck. Can you try?

I think you're using your Bitcoin address instead of your ECDSA public key. Go to your Address, Right click and Press Details there should be a public key. If you're unsure of the redemption process, I recommend you to test it out first with a smaller amount to get a better understanding.

  I plan to make multiple ones on paper. So say if i have 1 btc in my Trezor...and i create 5 of these with 0.2btc on each....since they are not broadcast on blockchain...willntrezor wallet show 0 btc balance or 1btc until such time the tx is broadcast in the future? I mean the btc has not moved so i am assuming it will still say 1btc. How do i get around this that i do not accidently spend the locked in time btc.

1BTC. Remove the seed/wallet associated with the seed in the wallet.

If i use electrum as source of btc...will electrum recognize this raw unbroadcastx and deduct from the remaining btc balance?

No.

  Thanks your right. And now I understand, I will need to literally create a new wallet with a new private seed for every new nlocktime this way I can never use the same BTC from previous transactions.

[HCP]

If i use electrum as source of btc...will electrum recognize this raw unbroadcastx and deduct from the remaining btc balance?

As a general rule... wallets can only report on the data contained within:

- The blockchain
- Their current "mempool"

If the transaction you create is not included in a block that has been added to the blockchain, nor broadcast into the network... then it is highly likely that your wallet will not reflect the "spending" of those coins in it's balance.

However, electrum has the concept of "local" transactions, which are transactions that you have finalised and signed but are not as yet broadcast to the network:



But it will display in your "transaction history" as a "local" transaction:



And show next to the balance as "unconfirmed":



(in other news, I wish I had as much real BTC as test BTC  )

[krogoth]

If i use electrum as source of btc...will electrum recognize this raw unbroadcastx and deduct from the remaining btc balance?

As a general rule... wallets can only report on the data contained within:

- The blockchain
- Their current "mempool"

If the transaction you create is not included in a block that has been added to the blockchain, nor broadcast into the network... then it is highly likely that your wallet will not reflect the "spending" of those coins in it's balance.

However, electrum has the concept of "local" transactions, which are transactions that you have finalised and signed but are not as yet broadcast to the network:



But it will display in your "transaction history" as a "local" transaction:



And show next to the balance as "unconfirmed":



(in other news, I wish I had as much real BTC as test BTC  )

  Thank you...that is good to know

[jackg]

So if i used trezor tied in with electrum...then your saying there is a chance the btc used for this timelock can be spent? If so how does one prevent that from happening?

If someone has access to your seeds, they can construct a transaction and spend your funds anytime they want. Your timelocked transaction cannot be in the mempool until it's expiry. This also means that your timelock funds won't be truly bounded to the time unless you:
1) Destroy all traces of private key/seed after creating and saving the transaction.
2) Ensure that no one else can have access to your keys or seeds.


In gist, the only way for you to spend the funds within is only with that nLockTime transaction. The nLocktime only sticks with your specific transaction and not to the funds in your address.

For that reason, I prefer the P2SH method. It ensures that the funds within that address are only spendable at that specific date or block.

    I tried the link https://coinb.in/#newTimeLocked

    Keeps on saying invalid date or pub addy...i changed multiple times..no luck. Can you try?

     I plan to make multiple ones on paper. So say if i have 1 btc in my Trezor...and i create 5 of these with 0.2btc on each....since they are not broadcast on blockchain...willntrezor wallet show 0 btc balance or 1btc until such time the tx is broadcast in the future? I mean the btc has not moved so i am assuming it will still say 1btc. How do i get around this that i do not accidently spend the locked in time btc.

   If i use electrum as source of btc...will electrum recognize this raw unbroadcastx and deduct from the remaining btc balance?

I think the confusion here stems from this being 2 different functions handled in a slightly different way.

The OP_HODL as it was called that ranochingo is suggesting is signing a transaction that is spent and confirmed as it is broadcast but can't be spent from its new location until a certain time.

When creating a transaction that spends funds you need your public key only.
When signing the transaction with the nlocktime or a timelock/hodl you'd then need the private key.
Spending funds to an address only needs an address because the addressee doesn't need to authenticate anything from their end.

A public key can be "hashed" to make an address but the reverse can't occur.

If you set a timestamp far in the future (eg 20-30 years but I'm not sure how long) there may be issues authenticating you as the owner if quantum comes along so someone else could potentially spend the funds (but no one's sure if this will happen though there are random physical constructs in physics we're discovering to be quantum enabled "suddenly" so)...

[krogoth]

Thread continued here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5308693.0 as I have started to experiment on this nTimelock. Love the feature by the way, but I need to make sure all is good before I start really locking any BTC up.