Transaction Fees

[Lucasdr]

Dear all,


I don't own bitcoins right now, I sold everything in 2017 for the following reason:
I thought it would be impossible for bitcoin to overtake the Euro/US Dollar with those high transaction fees.
For instance, when i wanted to pay a friend 20€ of bitcion, i payed 5€ on transaction fees, I think we can all agree that a 25% fee isn't gonna work.

Since i don't own bitcoins anymore, i was wondering if this is still the case?
And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Kind Regards,

Lucas

[bL4nkcode]

I thought it would be impossible for bitcoin to overtake the Euro/US Dollar with those high transaction fees.
For instance, when i wanted to pay a friend 20€ of bitcion, i payed 5€ on transaction fees, I think we can all agree that a 25% fee isn't gonna work.

Since i don't own bitcoins anymore, i was wondering if this is still the case?
And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Kind Regards,

Lucas

You could avoid spending higher fees by using a wallet like electrum (desktop or android), mycelium, and other wallets that have manual input or dynamic fees, paired with native segwit (wallet address that starts with bc1) and/or lightning. Than using an exchange, or wallet "account" and other custodial wallets which they're the ones who decided the fees of every transaction you will make or only limit the tx fees depends on them not you.

[ranochigo]

Unfortunately, yes. Segwit has made some improvement in this regard but it is definitely insufficient. Unless you're proactively doing consolidation and making transactions during the less congested periods, it's likely that you're going to pay a significant fees when doing micro transactions. If you're looking to do micro transactions, it could be better for you to explore offchain solutions instead. Lightning network offers instantaneous transaction while maintaining a fairly low fee.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

Since i don't own bitcoins anymore, i was wondering if this is still the case?
And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Its still the case in term of 20$ transfer that you would like to do. But bitcoin as "new global currency that will replace fiats" was a 2017 bubble paradigm - and it failed from too high fees - as you mentioned. We have another one created for this bubble - its hedging against global crisis (hyperinflation of dolar,euro - global reset). And now biggest investment funds (like Fidelity) is suggesting to put at least 5% of your well balanced portfolio into bitcoin.

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/FDAS/bitcoin-alternative-investment.pdf

[sunsilk]

It's still a problem for some about the fees but if you can use those wallets that allows you to adjust the fees from recommended to customize, you can pay the lowest fee that's accepted. It's never been a problem to me anymore unlike eoy of 2017.

why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Because it's just getting started, the adoption that we've been waiting for. It's being recognized and who won't take the attention of it if it's breaking new all time highs?

[rijaljun]

The price of the Bitcoin at the moment is really high and honestly the price of the transaction fee is really not suitable for micropayments or micro transactions. I think you will receive different opinions and perspective about your question regarding " why do we all believe in this expensive currency?" I think you should make your own research about it.

[Cryptoheavy]

Right now fees are much higher due to all this bull run. Only other coins (not all anyway) are suitable for payments right now

[mersal]

Dear all,


I don't own bitcoins right now, I sold everything in 2017 for the following reason:
I thought it would be impossible for bitcoin to overtake the Euro/US Dollar with those high transaction fees.
For instance, when i wanted to pay a friend 20€ of bitcion, i payed 5€ on transaction fees, I think we can all agree that a 25% fee isn't gonna work.

Since i don't own bitcoins anymore, i was wondering if this is still the case?
And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Kind Regards,

Lucas

in 2020, the situation is not worse like 2017 but still the transaction fee is high when we compare it with the fiat value and mainly due to the bull run. Few months back the mempool was empty when bitcoin hanging at the range of 10K so you can even make the fastest transaction with 1sat/byte. So the market condition decides the fees as well when you want a faster transaction but still, you can set a low fee but the waiting time may be in hours or days if the fee is too low before it gets confirmed.

[concept2]

Technically, there are multiple ways to make transaction in the bitcoin' blockchain. And there are ways to maintain the low fees. As other members mention above, segwit and lightning network are the solution for you. It is quite complicated to people who are familiar with

Personally, I always avoid sending a small amount of crypto. It does consume a huge fee to me and I'd rather use a digital online money transfer (such as PayPal). They are much faster and I dont have to pay to a single fee. Crypto is for my investment. The more I have, the richer I am
 

[Lucasdr]

First of all, thank you all for responding, the transaction fees part makes sences now!

Since i don't own bitcoins anymore, i was wondering if this is still the case?
And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Its still the case in term of 20$ transfer that you would like to do. But bitcoin as "new global currency that will replace fiats" was a 2017 bubble paradigm - and it failed from too high fees - as you mentioned. We have another one created for this bubble - its hedging against global crisis (hyperinflation of dolar,euro - global reset). And now biggest investment funds (like Fidelity) is suggesting to put at least 5% of your well balanced portfolio into bitcoin.

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/FDAS/bitcoin-alternative-investment.pdf

Thank you for responce and the article, very intresting, now the current growth makes sence to me.

During Uni i learned investing in Bitcoin is an absolute nogo, because of the high volatility, intresting to see how the portfolio's react when they add bitcoin.
I think the problem with the current price/investors is that a lot of people aren't aware of this and are just gambling that the price will go up, at least, that's what i see in my surroundings. -> Do you guys see the same things? Or is this just my surrounding
I also don't like the fact to invest in something without real value-> since we agree bitcoin can't become the new global currency.
Or do is still miss something? Bitcoin can only be used as payment and investing purposes right?

[stompix]

You could avoid spending higher fees by using a wallet like electrum (desktop or android), mycelium, and other wallets that have manual input or dynamic fees, paired with native segwit (wallet address that starts with bc1) and/or lightning.

Avoiding paying high fees is one thing, but having lower fees getting confirmed is a different thing.
Controlling what fee you pay will help you not overspend, you will not get any other discount.

I can send now 1sat/b fee, would that confirm in a reasonable time? Of course, if you don't care when it will get confirmed if it's just transferred from your wallet to your cold storage if it's a consolidation transaction you would normally don't care but what if you want to buy something?
Are you going to wait from Monday till Saturday when the fees go usually down for your transaction to finally confirm at which time it's possible the merchant will be out of stock for that item? Take a look at coinpayments, if the sanctions don't confirm in 8 hours they drop it and return you the money when it finally does.

This is not like avoiding a toll road and finding a dirt road that will get you there with a tax.
Higher fees are unavoidable if you want fast confirmations during some periods, nothing other than a transaction accelerator like via btcwill help you then

[Tytanowy Janusz]

I also don't like the fact to invest in something without real value-> since we agree bitcoin can't become the new global currency.
Or do is still miss something? Bitcoin can only be used as payment and investing purposes right?

What is the real value of gold? All use cases it can be used in, starting from jewellery ending on processors. Right
What is the real value of bitcoin? All use cases it can be used in, starting from easy transfer of value abbroad, storing funds out of centralized organisations ending on headge agains global reset all secured by network secured by amount of energy that could power whole Ireland and more than 300 core developers.

[Yogee]

....
I think the problem with the current price/investors is that a lot of people aren't aware of this and are just gambling that the price will go up, at least, that's what i see in my surroundings. -> Do you guys see the same things? Or is this just my surrounding

It's not that of a serious problem. There will always be newbie investors in whatever asset type and that includes BTC. New investors rely on more experienced investors or what their financial gurus are saying. They are here since some of their "idols" are also telling them to buy bitcoin. A lot of them don't really understand how Bitcoin transaction works.

I also don't like the fact to invest in something without real value-> since we agree bitcoin can't become the new global currency.

The real value in BTC that people fail to see or do not want to accept is it's a decentralized currency. It may not be able to replace fiat as a global currency but it will remain a good alternative for moving funds without any centralized entity interference.

Try moving $1 million dollars in fiat and compare it to moving $1 million BTC. You'll save time and probably on fees too when transferring large money like that in bitcoin. I remember a tweet by Elon asking if it's possible to convert large billions of dollars into bitcoin in his conversation with Michael Saylor.

Or do is still miss something? Bitcoin can only be used as payment and investing purposes right?

Both.

[Leviathan.007]

Yes, transaction fees are high right now. Usually, because of the network traffic the transaction fee increase and since bitcoin is rising over time rapidly, many people are moving their bitcoins for selling or buying bitcoin. That's why the transaction fee rises. Usually, whenever the bitcoin price does a rapid movement the transaction fee rises. Regarding to transferring 20€ worth of bitcoin, you are right. Since you will need to pay ~5€ as transaction fee, this won't make any sense. However, you can wait until the transaction fee decrease again and do your transaction.

[Oasisman]

Well, It's still the same. High fees are still one of the main concern about Bitcoin, but If you know how to minimize the fees then It would be less worrying on your edge.
I believe, you're using custodial wallets or exchange that usually been charging you a lot for tx fees and is usually has a slight difference in Btc - Fiat pair.
Some people already mentioned a few methods on how to save yourself from ridiculously high fees.

[Reatim]

Dear all,


I don't own bitcoins right now, I sold everything in 2017 for the following reason:
I thought it would be impossible for bitcoin to overtake the Euro/US Dollar with those high transaction fees.
For instance, when i wanted to pay a friend 20€ of bitcion, i payed 5€ on transaction fees, I think we can all agree that a 25% fee isn't gonna work.

Since i don't own bitcoins anymore, i was wondering if this is still the case?
And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

Kind Regards,

Lucas

That's why there is Lightning Network to Help us lowering the Fees need to be paid while sending small fractions .
This has been a Good and advantageous for every Bitcoin users .

Try checking this Thread about LN updates
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4792622.0

That would be a Good Help for your concern specially Microtrading in Crypto currencies .

Though still Many of Us must Know and learn how to use this way to Help us more effectively than just using exchange or p2p .

[Lucasdr]

I also don't like the fact to invest in something without real value-> since we agree bitcoin can't become the new global currency.
Or do is still miss something? Bitcoin can only be used as payment and investing purposes right?

What is the real value of gold? All use cases it can be used in, starting from jewellery ending on processors. Right
What is the real value of bitcoin? All use cases it can be used in, starting from easy transfer of value abbroad, storing funds out of centralized organisations ending on headge agains global reset all secured by network secured by amount of energy that could power whole Ireland and more than 300 core developers.

Good points, thank you for your time and explanation, it's clear now

[Alucard1]

This is a common problem that many people may encounter in the world of crypto, the value of bitcoin as of this day is high about $40000 so we should expect that the transaction fees would be so high as well but actually, we can avoid a little bit this problem if we are going to use a good wallet like electrum and many more, I am using Electrum wallet and I am already satisfied on it because of not that so high of transaction fees.

[OcTradism]

I thought it would be impossible for bitcoin to overtake the Euro/US Dollar with those high transaction fees.

Fee in 2020 (about $16) and 2021 is cheaper  than in December 2017 (> $50). What do you meant? https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html
Median transaction fee recently only climbs back to the peak in the last 3 month period: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin

And if this is still the case, why do we all believe in this expensive currency?

It has a fixed total supply. It has scheduled halvings after around 4 year (after each 210,000 blocks). Many bitcoin was lost and bitcoin is the initiator of the blockchain industry that is the future of human civilization.

[jademaxxiss012]

Same question I have in my mind staking the fiat currency to something like a digital currency in which could be a form of gambling. But, people do love to gamble so they risk money into bitcoin. Well, not a bad idea though because if you are open minded then you can earn good just like to what happen in bitcoin market now.