IRS bitcoin tax question.

[bubbagumpshrimp]

If bitcoin is property are all the other alts also treated as property?

[1714536204]

1714536204

[1714536204]

1714536204

[1714536204]

1714536204

[1714536204]

1714536204

[1714536204]

1714536204

[iambk]

I'm no tax expert but I think the IRS is basically saying not to treat it as a currency.  If bitcoin isn't a currency for tax reasons I think it is very logical to assume the same is true for all of the alts.

Capital gains/losses still apply and that's what's important to me since I lost everything in mt.gox.  I'm going to take my fiat investment in bitcoin as a complete loss unless I learn that isn't correct.

[BrandonQ1995]

I would think so. But regardless, I think the IRS has forgotten what Bitcoins are. Its a crypto-virtual currency with the original sole purpose of spending/moving around money anonymously. Key word "Anonymously." Do they really think people are going to report these earnings...

[hellscabane]

Personally, I'm treating it as such. After all, there is a pegged value that you can use each day in terms of the fiat value mined.

However, if you hold a crypto-currency other than bitcoin and it loses value, I feel like it'd be pretty hard to convince the IRS of those "losses." But who knows really; after all they've just scratched the surface of the funky things that have been going on in the crypto-currency world for a while.

[thejewelrytech]

I think the whole idea of a RULING is LAUGHABLE! The IRS doesn't RULE over US!They need  to abide by and run by LAWS and There is no Law that declares Bitcoin PROPERTY! And the IRS HAS NO POWER TO MAKE LAWS! It has to run through the system The house of representatives and Congress and most of all us THE PEOPLE!!!!They can't just make up NEW Tax laws on a whim They are grasping at straws for anyone dumb enough to declare  their Bitcoin as Property!Whats next everyone has too declare their Computers as Property and pay a EXTRA yearly tax for owning a simple computer?Computers are going to need Registration Numbers and Certs for your asic  or graphic card like a Car or House? Businesses use computers to make money everyday and there's no such thing where they have to pay extra for the technology and a miner is a just a simple complex computer when you break it down. They going to start taxing video game gold too? Is games like WOW and Everquest and Diablo or any VIRTUAL WORLD for that matter going to become TAXED PRoPERTy...... then what Clothing? Comic Books..... ,Coin collections? Paintings just for hanging on the wall? Your suppose to  what CREATE MONEY YOU NEVER HAD TO BEGIN WITH ?Their the only ones who can do that lol if you mine x amount of bitcoins and dont have any money and NEVER SELL FOR FIAT? How are you suppose to now JUST CREATE the supposed money  owed ?They cant make you that is RIDICULOUS there saying NOTHING IS TRULY YOURS! and we just RENT IT! because they will take it away the only thing they can take away is DOLLARs that are so worthless and have to backed up by government to have value otherwise it's a worthless piece of paper! Whats the point of owning anything when they will just tax you away for infinity until they can take it when you stop paying! and apparently was never yours too begin with. When it can be taking from you and they can't take the Bitcoin away and once you drop using the dollar they LOSE THEIR POWER they know it and are SCARED OF IT!
 The key is just NEVER SELL YOUR BITCOIN FOR FIAT or ever SELL ON A EXCHANGE once you trade for FIAT well then you just set your self up for them to ask for their share  since they own the US dollar lol But BITCOIn has no CENTRAL AUTHORITY and was built with ANONYMITY FOR THIS VERY REASON!But once you SELL on a EXCHANGE That is ALL GONE! All you PUMPER AND DUMPERS ARE SCREWED NOW  and will probably get what you deserved LOL THE IRS HAS NO JURISDICTION to TAX A WORLDWIDE FOREIGN CURRENCY that's like them say they will tax all GOLD IN existance  no matter where it is!and like Gold they can't TAX IT UNLESS YOU SELL FOR FIAT no matter where it is! They say it's property? I say show me THE LAW that says so? PROVE IT!Show us the law that says BITCOIN DECLARED PROPERTY ? and us the people approved it?When was this LAW PUT UP FOR A VOTE? NEVER!
 Because we all know its a CURRENCY and they don't want  to say it!a RULING MEANS JACK SHIT! JUDGES MAKE RULINGS not IRS without  something put into LAW and WRITING and going through Congress and the PEOPLE having a say? they have no leg to stand on! That may very well change in time as they try and be the WORLD POLICE but when it all comes too it they don't have the MAN POWER nor RESOURCES to MAKE ANYTHING ever STICK!Unless your funneling major Money in your Bank account and then well you just screwed yourself............
 People just give the Gov way way too much Credit ! Most of their Power is just a ILLUSION instilled with FEAR in our MINDS on what might happen?when that's all it is is a big might  backed by NOTHING!! much like the U.S DOLLAR lol Next thing you know they are going to tax us for jerking off because they are worth bank deposits

[waldox]

I think the whole idea of a RULING is LAUGHABLE! The IRS doesn't RULE over US!They need  to abide by and run by LAWS and There is no Law that declares Bitcoin PROPERTY! And the IRS HAS NO POWER TO MAKE LAWS! It house to run through the system The house and Congress and most of all us THE PEOPLE!!!!They can't just make up NEW Tax laws on a whim They are grasping at straws for anyone dumb enough to declare  their Bitcoin as Property!Whats next everyone has too declare their Computers as Property and pay a EXTRA yearly tax for owning a simple computer?Computers are going to need Registration Numbers and Certs for your asic  or graphic card like a Car or House? Businesses use computers to make money everyday and there's no such thing where they have to pay extra for the tecknology and a miner is a just a simple complex computer when you break it down.
 The key is just NEVER SELL YOUR BITCOIN FOR FIAT or ever SELL ON A EXCHANGE once you trade for FIAT well then you just set your self up for them to ask for thier share  since they own the US dollar lol But BITCOIn has no CENTRAL AUTHORITY and THE IRS HAS NO JURISDICTION to TAX A WORLDWIDE FORIEGN CURRENCY thats like them say they will tax all GOLD IN existance no matter where it is! They say it's property? I say show me THE LAW that says so? PROVE IT!Show us the law that says so? Because we all know its a CURRENCY and they don't want  to say it!a RULING MEANS JACK SHIT! JUDGES MAKE RULINGS not IRS without  something put into LAW and WRITING and going through Congress and the PEOPLE having a say? they have no leg to stand on! That may very well change in time as they try and be the WORLD POLICE but when it all comes too it they don't have the MAN POWER nor RESOURCES to MAKE ANYTHING ever STICK!
 People just give the Gov way way too much Credit ! Most of their Power is just a ILLUSION instilled with FEAR in our MINDS on what might happen?when that's all it is is a big might  backed by NOTHING!! much like the U.S DOLLAR lol

people need to take back their power

[krampus]

I think the whole idea of a RULING is LAUGHABLE! The IRS doesn't RULE over US!They need  to abide by and run by LAWS and There is no Law that declares Bitcoin PROPERTY! And the IRS HAS NO POWER TO MAKE LAWS! It house to run through the system The house and Congress and most of all us THE PEOPLE!!!!They can't just make up NEW Tax laws on a whim They are grasping at straws for anyone dumb enough to declare  their Bitcoin as Property!Whats next everyone has too declare their Computers as Property and pay a EXTRA yearly tax for owning a simple computer?Computers are going to need Registration Numbers and Certs for your asic  or graphic card like a Car or House? Businesses use computers to make money everyday and there's no such thing where they have to pay extra for the tecknology and a miner is a just a simple complex computer when you break it down.
 The key is just NEVER SELL YOUR BITCOIN FOR FIAT or ever SELL ON A EXCHANGE once you trade for FIAT well then you just set your self up for them to ask for thier share  since they own the US dollar lol But BITCOIn has no CENTRAL AUTHORITY and THE IRS HAS NO JURISDICTION to TAX A WORLDWIDE FORIEGN CURRENCY thats like them say they will tax all GOLD IN existance no matter where it is! They say it's property? I say show me THE LAW that says so? PROVE IT!Show us the law that says so? Because we all know its a CURRENCY and they don't want  to say it!a RULING MEANS JACK SHIT! JUDGES MAKE RULINGS not IRS without  something put into LAW and WRITING and going through Congress and the PEOPLE having a say? they have no leg to stand on! That may very well change in time as they try and be the WORLD POLICE but when it all comes too it they don't have the MAN POWER nor RESOURCES to MAKE ANYTHING ever STICK!
 People just give the Gov way way too much Credit ! Most of their Power is just a ILLUSION instilled with FEAR in our MINDS on what might happen?when that's all it is is a big might  backed by NOTHING!! much like the U.S DOLLAR lol

people need to take back their power

People need to ease up on the exclamation point.

[franky1]

anything can be a currency.

people trade cars, art, food, cigarettes. they are all currencies but they are not government recognized currencies.

governments call currencies FIAT. banknotes etc. and even if you cant pay your american taxes in euro's because euro is not the american legal tender. US government still recognize the euro as currency.

simply because government currency is owned, managed and protected by a government,

the IRS is saying that bitcoin is not a government currency. which its not

the features of bitcoin are not a stock, share or commodity. they are an asset, a possession, property.

and just like other assets, they can be bought and sold in anyway the owners deemed fit.

so do not worry that the US doesn't call it a government currency. neither are facebook credits or microsoft points, etc. yet what we do with it is more important then what an old, out of date government describes it as

[hellscabane]

I think the whole idea of a RULING is LAUGHABLE! The IRS doesn't RULE over US!They need  to abide by and run by LAWS and There is no Law that declares Bitcoin PROPERTY! And the IRS HAS NO POWER TO MAKE LAWS! It house to run through the system The house and Congress and most of all us THE PEOPLE!!!!They can't just make up NEW Tax laws on a whim They are grasping at straws for anyone dumb enough to declare  their Bitcoin as Property!Whats next everyone has too declare their Computers as Property and pay a EXTRA yearly tax for owning a simple computer?Computers are going to need Registration Numbers and Certs for your asic  or graphic card like a Car or House? Businesses use computers to make money everyday and there's no such thing where they have to pay extra for the tecknology and a miner is a just a simple complex computer when you break it down.
 The key is just NEVER SELL YOUR BITCOIN FOR FIAT or ever SELL ON A EXCHANGE once you trade for FIAT well then you just set your self up for them to ask for thier share  since they own the US dollar lol But BITCOIn has no CENTRAL AUTHORITY and THE IRS HAS NO JURISDICTION to TAX A WORLDWIDE FORIEGN CURRENCY thats like them say they will tax all GOLD IN existance no matter where it is! They say it's property? I say show me THE LAW that says so? PROVE IT!Show us the law that says so? Because we all know its a CURRENCY and they don't want  to say it!a RULING MEANS JACK SHIT! JUDGES MAKE RULINGS not IRS without  something put into LAW and WRITING and going through Congress and the PEOPLE having a say? they have no leg to stand on! That may very well change in time as they try and be the WORLD POLICE but when it all comes too it they don't have the MAN POWER nor RESOURCES to MAKE ANYTHING ever STICK!
 People just give the Gov way way too much Credit ! Most of their Power is just a ILLUSION instilled with FEAR in our MINDS on what might happen?when that's all it is is a big might  backed by NOTHING!! much like the U.S DOLLAR lol

people need to take back their power

People need to ease up on the exclamation point.

And ease up on the Caps Lock key too.

I think there might a bit of a snowball argument here though...

I will say this, I personally have no reasonable way to only transact in bitcoin. For one thing, most people who mine have operational costs that can't be paid in bitcoin. So unless they have enough non-bitcoin supplementary income, exchange to fiat is going to be necessary.

As for businesses that want to accept bitcoin, what do you expect them to do?

[thejewelrytech]

I think the whole idea of a RULING is LAUGHABLE! The IRS doesn't RULE over US!They need  to abide by and run by LAWS and There is no Law that declares Bitcoin PROPERTY! And the IRS HAS NO POWER TO MAKE LAWS! It house to run through the system The house and Congress and most of all us THE PEOPLE!!!!They can't just make up NEW Tax laws on a whim They are grasping at straws for anyone dumb enough to declare  their Bitcoin as Property!Whats next everyone has too declare their Computers as Property and pay a EXTRA yearly tax for owning a simple computer?Computers are going to need Registration Numbers and Certs for your asic  or graphic card like a Car or House? Businesses use computers to make money everyday and there's no such thing where they have to pay extra for the tecknology and a miner is a just a simple complex computer when you break it down.
 The key is just NEVER SELL YOUR BITCOIN FOR FIAT or ever SELL ON A EXCHANGE once you trade for FIAT well then you just set your self up for them to ask for thier share  since they own the US dollar lol But BITCOIn has no CENTRAL AUTHORITY and THE IRS HAS NO JURISDICTION to TAX A WORLDWIDE FORIEGN CURRENCY thats like them say they will tax all GOLD IN existance no matter where it is! They say it's property? I say show me THE LAW that says so? PROVE IT!Show us the law that says so? Because we all know its a CURRENCY and they don't want  to say it!a RULING MEANS JACK SHIT! JUDGES MAKE RULINGS not IRS without  something put into LAW and WRITING and going through Congress and the PEOPLE having a say? they have no leg to stand on! That may very well change in time as they try and be the WORLD POLICE but when it all comes too it they don't have the MAN POWER nor RESOURCES to MAKE ANYTHING ever STICK!
 People just give the Gov way way too much Credit ! Most of their Power is just a ILLUSION instilled with FEAR in our MINDS on what might happen?when that's all it is is a big might  backed by NOTHING!! much like the U.S DOLLAR lol

people need to take back their power

People need to ease up on the exclamation point.

And ease up on the Caps Lock key too.

I think there might a bit of a snowball argument here though...

I will say this, I personally have no reasonable way to only transact in bitcoin. For one thing, most people who mine have operational costs that can't be paid in bitcoin. So unless they have enough non-bitcoin supplementary income, exchange to fiat is going to be necessary.

As for businesses that want to accept bitcoin, what do you expect them to do?

Hey than take it up THE ARSE THEN better YOU then ME!!! and make sure too ask the gov to throw some extra lube in there before they poke you lol the government can't survive without  clowns I mean people like you and its people like you that are keeping Bitcoin DOWN making it A INCOME PROJECT you don't really believe in bitcoin you ain't fooling me for you its just a way to make extra money your probably one of those scum pump n dumpers in love with the FIAt  ;)so good luck ever making a profit and explaining things to the IRS Fool but like they say a FOOL an his MOney are soon parted personally I would rather die then give in but that would take being a MAN on your part so that's obviously out the question for you.... but hey the world I mean gov needs spineless cowards too! somebody has to play THE FOOL why not you? you seem to got the part PLAYED OUT pretty good maybe you can throw on a cheerleader outfit and become the next oboma girl I bet you'd look cute in it

[hellscabane]

And ease up on the Caps Lock key too.

I think there might a bit of a snowball argument here though...

I will say this, I personally have no reasonable way to only transact in bitcoin. For one thing, most people who mine have operational costs that can't be paid in bitcoin. So unless they have enough non-bitcoin supplementary income, exchange to fiat is going to be necessary.

As for businesses that want to accept bitcoin, what do you expect them to do?

Hey than take it up THE ARSE THEN better YOU then ME!!! and make sure too ask the gov to throw some extra lube in there before they poke you lol the government can't survive without  clowns I mean people like you and its people like you that are keeping Bitcoin DOWN making it A INCOME PROJECT you don't really believe in bitcoin you ain't fooling me for you its just a way to make extra money your probably one of those scum pump n dumpers in love with the FIAt  ;)so good luck ever making a profit and explaining things to the IRS Fool but like they say a FOOL an his MOney are soon parted personally I would rather die then give in but that would take being a MAN on your part so that's obviously out the question for you.... but hey the world I mean gov needs spineless cowards too! somebody has to play THE FOOL why not you? you seem to got the part PLAYED OUT pretty good maybe you can throw on a cheerleader outfit and become the next oboma girl I bet you'd look cute in it

Aw, so cute. Such an angry troll. Okay, I'll feed you a little more.

Let's say someone wants to get into the bitcoin scene by mining an alt. So they do so. And this person wants to hold BTC for the long term since he believes in the promise of crypto-currency. There’s one snag though, the cost of electricity is more than the person has out of pocket (cause ya know, most utilities only accept fiat). How do you propose he takes care of that bill?