Meriting a user who just merited you

[Vod]

It isn't an issue in small amounts in my opinion.  It's the users that have exchanged hundreds of merits back and forth that are a real serious threat to the system here.  I've gone on record multiple times as saying there should be a 50 merit cap on what any 1 user can send to another over the lifetime of the account.

DT1 Alt account merit swapping:
https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=OgNasty&from=Rmcdermott927 (35)
https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=Rmcdermott927&from=OgNasty (24)

The fifty merit limits works great if you want to spread your merits around for influence and power.  But many profiles here (myself included) continue to think of new ideas, so a merit cap is not needed.  

[Findingnemo]

snip~

It isn't an issue in small amounts in my opinion.  It's the users that have exchanged hundreds of merits back and forth that are a real serious threat to the system here.  I've gone on record multiple times as saying there should be a 50 merit cap on what any 1 user can send to another over the lifetime of the account.  If you look at some of the highest merit earners on this site, they have literally exchanged hundreds of merits between each other.  I'm pretty sure this isn't what the merit system was created for and it should be stopped with a lifetime merit sent limit between users.  

It is also abundantly clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that massive merit abuse took place in the first couple weeks of the system.  I think in addition to a merit per user lifetime cap, rolling back merits received in the first month of the system as well as merits over 50 sent to any one user by another would make the system much more honest and make the merit whores have to go through the additional steps required for alt account signature spammers.  That's if we actually want an 'honest' system instead of a 'who can befriend the most abusers' system we currently see in the trust and merit networks.

Kind of agreed with the statement but not with merit cap per user for a lifetime may not work but it will be better to limit merit per posts like

only 2 merits can be rewarded for a post with two people awarding one merit each or just 2 merits from a person so even if someone want to merit that post it is not possible to do so.

Most of the community members agreed that awarding 50 merits for a post is too much, BTW I didn't see any post received 50 merits from a person in the recent days.

[OgNasty]

snip~

It isn't an issue in small amounts in my opinion.  It's the users that have exchanged hundreds of merits back and forth that are a real serious threat to the system here.  I've gone on record multiple times as saying there should be a 50 merit cap on what any 1 user can send to another over the lifetime of the account.  If you look at some of the highest merit earners on this site, they have literally exchanged hundreds of merits between each other.  I'm pretty sure this isn't what the merit system was created for and it should be stopped with a lifetime merit sent limit between users.  

It is also abundantly clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that massive merit abuse took place in the first couple weeks of the system.  I think in addition to a merit per user lifetime cap, rolling back merits received in the first month of the system as well as merits over 50 sent to any one user by another would make the system much more honest and make the merit whores have to go through the additional steps required for alt account signature spammers.  That's if we actually want an 'honest' system instead of a 'who can befriend the most abusers' system we currently see in the trust and merit networks.

Kind of agreed with the statement but not with merit cap per user for a lifetime may not work but it will be better to limit merit per posts like

only 2 merits can be rewarded for a post with two people awarding one merit each or just 2 merits from a person so even if someone want to merit that post it is not possible to do so.

Most of the community members agreed that awarding 50 merits for a post is too much, BTW I didn't see any post received 50 merits from a person in the recent days.

I agree that 50 merits for a single post is too much.  If there were a lifetime cap though, it wouldn't matter so much and would eliminate a serious problem.

Only 2 merits on a post seems a bit low to me.  Some posts, like my escrow, nastyfans, minted seats, and green energy mining threads have led to years (soon to be decades) of work and tens of millions of dollars exchanged (billions of dollars in BTC at current USD/BTC rates).  Limiting those posts to only 2 merits seems a bit strange.  A lifetime merit limit addresses the issue of merit cycling forever, but a per post merit limit does what exactly?

[Timelord2067]

My preference would be that a user can only merit a post once with not more than just two merits (which would enable the recipient to on send one merit to the next user).

Any post can be merited by an unlimited number of users, but as I mention above just once for either one or two merits.

Other threads have figures showing merits are not making their way down the totem pole to the new and near new users to enable them to rank up, so both the merit sources and the recipients they shower with anywhere from four to eight (and more!) merits simply aren't giving new users the time of day much less merits.

[Findingnemo]

snip~

I agree that 50 merits for a single post is too much.  If there were a lifetime cap though, it wouldn't matter so much and would eliminate a serious problem.

Only 2 merits on a post seems a bit low to me.  Some posts, like my escrow, nastyfans, minted seats, and green energy mining threads have led to years (soon to be decades) of work and tens of millions of dollars exchanged (billions of dollars in BTC at current USD/BTC rates).  Limiting those posts to only 2 merits seems a bit strange.  A lifetime merit limit addresses the issue of merit cycling forever, but a per post merit limit does what exactly?

Some threads really deserves lot of merits for their contribution to the forum and also the whole crypto community but this has been taken as an advantage by the people who you call is farming circle and just keep spending them in between  posts.

If we have merit restrictions per posts then it might be helpful to restriction their actions and will encourage them to merit more posts than single post with huge merits.

[shield132]

Whatever the reason is that someone merited your post, you might sometimes (or all the time) feel like you need to respond in the same way

In overall, I think that more likely we merit each-other because their opinion matches our opinion.

Personally, I think that people may think in a different way. When the person merits you, you may feel like you have to merit but at the same time you may think like if I merit him/her, it will look like a chain

To my mind, a high percentage of bitcointalk members think differently because when the person merits you, you may feel like you have to merit but at the same time you may think like if I merit him/her, it will look like a chain where we try to rank up each-other. I came up with this conclusion after seeing this behaviour from a lot of users.

[Pmalek]

only 2 merits can be rewarded for a post with two people awarding one merit each or just 2 merits from a person so even if someone want to merit that post it is not possible to do so.

If I understood your proposal correctly, you are suggesting that no post should be able to receive more than 2 merits in total? So if I awarded this post of yours with 2 merits, and a second user wanted to give you 1 more merit, that wouldn't be possible because the merit cap of 2 merits/post has already been reached

I don't think anyone would support such a change. And it would be unfair to new users who are good posters and can theoretically get 20, 30, 100 merits per post/thread if enough people like what they wrote. I don't think abuse should be fought by limiting the entire community like that. That is why I am always against proposals that would put additional limitations on newbies, based on the fact that many are spammers or share malware and scams. I think that 1 legit newbie who wants to become part of the community is worth the 10 idiots that get banned for various reasons. And because of that 1 quality newbie, he shouldn't be treated unfairly.

Merits are transparent. You can always check who sent what to who. On top of that, it's a subjective decision. If I feel like something is worth just 1 merit, that's my right. If the member next to me feels the same post is worth 10 merits, he has equal rights to award those merits to the same post. And a third user can think it's not worth a single merit.

Merit abuse should be proven the same way alt accounts, ban evaders, and scammers are proven. On a case by case study.
   

[Findingnemo]

only 2 merits can be rewarded for a post with two people awarding one merit each or just 2 merits from a person so even if someone want to merit that post it is not possible to do so.

If I understood your proposal correctly, you are suggesting that no post should be able to receive more than 2 merits in total? So if I awarded this post of yours with 2 merits, and a second user wanted to give you 1 more merit, that wouldn't be possible because the merit cap of 2 merits/post has already been reached

I don't think anyone would support such a change. And it would be unfair to new users who are good posters and can theoretically get 20, 30, 100 merits per post/thread if enough people like what they wrote. I don't think abuse should be fought by limiting the entire community like that. That is why I am always against proposals that would put additional limitations on newbies, based on the fact that many are spammers or share malware and scams. I think that 1 legit newbie who wants to become part of the community is worth the 10 idiots that get banned for various reasons. And because of that 1 quality newbie, he shouldn't be treated unfairly.

Merits are transparent. You can always check who sent what to who. On top of that, it's a subjective decision. If I feel like something is worth just 1 merit, that's my right. If the member next to me feels the same post is worth 10 merits, he has equal rights to award those merits to the same post. And a third user can think it's not worth a single merit.

Merit abuse should be proven the same way alt accounts, ban evaders, and scammers are proven. On a case by case study.
   

Meriting a post is highly subjective and I am agree with that but you feel that any good post deserves 50 merits from a person? Very rare exceptions to such amount of contributions.

IMO, meriting a most in a thread is just to highlight that particular post among the others because it contains some information for the newbies or to the community that is why I think 2 merit cap is enough, we no need to pour merits on a single posts because this leads to the circle formation so the merit get distributed into a closed circle not to the entire active members.

If we have low merit cap per posts then it will encourage people to merit more posts so more newbies can rankup!

[Pmalek]

Meriting a post is highly subjective and I am agree with that but you feel that any good post deserves 50 merits from a person? Very rare exceptions to such amount of contributions.

Putting a merit per post limit to 2 merits in total is very different from allowing a single user hand out 50 merits at once. We can discuss whether or not a post deserves 50 merits, and if it's fair or not to award so many merits for that post, but I doubt anyone would vote for having a 2 merit per post maximum. That surely doesn't sound fair.

There are thousands of posts that can be used as an example, but here is just one I remember from yesterday because I used it as a source somewhere.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184169.0
With such a rule in place, the work wwzsocki put in to create this thread would be worth (at maximum) the same as a potential 1-2 liner that someone finds useful or entertaining. A slap in the face.     

[The Cryptovator]

For me, just merit for good. Doesn't necessarily always make a high-quality post. Otherwise, a good poster will miss merit from me. But I don't use this policy receive>send. If someone sent me merits I even don't visit his post history. So there is no chance to send him merit as a return for received merits. Although this doesn't merit abuse in my opinion, but I don't feel this is a better way to spend your merits. As a merit source, wherever I notice a good post at least according to me, then I send merits. I don't care even he had sent me merits or not.

But I have to admit, I visit post history sometimes to send merits especially if someone very near to rank up. I just try to help them to achieve their desired rank.

[Findingnemo]

Meriting a post is highly subjective and I am agree with that but you feel that any good post deserves 50 merits from a person? Very rare exceptions to such amount of contributions.

Putting a merit per post limit to 2 merits in total is very different from allowing a single user hand out 50 merits at once. We can discuss whether or not a post deserves 50 merits, and if it's fair or not to award so many merits for that post, but I doubt anyone would vote for having a 2 merit per post maximum. That surely doesn't sound fair.

There are thousands of posts that can be used as an example, but here is just one I remember from yesterday because I used it as a source somewhere.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184169.0
With such a rule in place, the work wwzsocki put in to create this thread would be worth (at maximum) the same as a potential 1-2 liner that someone finds useful or entertaining. A slap in the face.     

Having merit cap per post is the idea and 2 was just an example, if community thinks that 2 is not enough then we can consider 10 for a good post as cap merit to be received.And as I said there are some exceptions which deserve 100s of merits but we are giving chance of merit circle to get formed on most of the occasions where the post is definitely good but don't deserves 50 at all.

I don't think there will be any tweak in the merit system from theymos in the merit system even he said that there may be some changes if it was needed when it was implemented but so far so good the system works but still it can made to be better for everyone deserve to be encouraged with merits if they are having some worthy contents.

[qwertyup23]

But I have to admit, I visit post history sometimes to send merits especially if someone very near to rank up. I just try to help them to achieve their desired rank.

I agree with this as I am one of those people you helped in ranking-up!

I still remember the time when I was about 30-40 merits away from being a Hero Member and you suddenly merited some of my accusation posts, together with Rikaflip and LoyceV. With your combined efforts, I was able to attain those merits and subsequently ranked up.

To be honest, until now, I still feel indebted to what you guys did to me and I really want to at least bring back the favour for what you guys did! That is also why every time I see a user who is near in ranking up, I make it a point to help them by meriting some of their post!

[cheezcarls]

There is a guy named elmanchez (who was already permabanned due to loan default), who initially asked me to exchange merits before on a 1:1 ratio on Telegram. I simply said no because it’s against the rules, and I had a feeling that he fumed after responding that to him and never had a convo or heard from him anymore (until seeing a scam accusation against him).

I don’t mind who merited me (but I appreciate at least), because I am not obligated to merit him or her back. I would rather choose the natural way of sending and receiving merits because of helpful and valuable posts. 

[GeorgeJohn]

I think merit is based on post that deserved merit and not any how post that can be merited, from another aspect of meriting a user that merited you, looking towards it, it's a symbols of appreciation to merit who merited you but that should not mean that it's a privileges to merit a low quality post due to a mate merit you, let me recapitulate by saying it's not bad enough to merit someone who merited you from my perspective because some people merit a post due to inspiration or knowledge acquire from a post without minding how many times such a person merited he / her.

[Pmalek]

Bump

[Poker Player]

Bump

Hi pal. What's the reason for the bump? I think this post should rather be locked. It was interesting but if people haven't commented in a month, I don't see the point in bumping it.

[Pmalek]

Bump

Hi pal. What's the reason for the bump?

It's simple: The bumping rules give everyone the right to bump their threads once every 24 hours. Therefore, I am well within my rights to bump my thread that was last posted on more than a month ago without consulting with other forum users.

Thanks for your concerns. 

[vintages]

Therefore, I am well within my rights to bump my thread that was last posted on more than a month ago without consulting with other forum users.

Haha

Funny reply, but he is kinda right about the reason for the bumping though.

Anyway, just to add about an opinion about meriting a user who merits you. I kinda feel it has to do with being benevolent. Some people just have this gesture within them. It's more like feeling the need to 'repay the person who did you good because you feel you own them.' It's a human feeling. We see this often when people open the door for us, we feel the need to return the favor to another person.

[rosenbauer02]

If I open up the topic and then was merited to a certain user and then the user made a reply which strikes to the topic or was being answered the way what I wanted like learning from the topic then giving merit back to that user to me was not a problem because every user has the discretion to give the merit he has. This is what always been done to high ranks when they made their reply. They always end up making good answers and tha could satisfy most in a certain thread.

However,  giving merit back even if the reply was completely non sense then that would be an exchange of merits. The only problem is that we can't verify whether they are only exchanging merits or the user was honest to goodness giving merit back when he read the reply even if we consider it non sense but for him it was not?

Well, merit system for me works well but there are no rulings and it will be complicated depending on how you perceive things especially here in the forum.

[FIFA worldcup]

Did you ever find yourself thinking: that user just sent me x merits, I will go through his/her post history and find something to merit? That thought has often popped into my head, and I have indeed done it a few times myself.

Although if anyone does this, the intention is not bad but sometimes if you do this regularly and repeatedly  then people might suspect that you are alt of each other and meriting your own accounts. For me, it better to merit posts as you see them and not necessarily try to go through the entire post history to find a post to give merit.