Warren Buffett & "Rat Poison"

[Lucius]

I used to care what WB thought about BTC in the past, but for a while now I haven't cared about his opinion, just as I don't care if Musk or Gates will invest in BTC tomorrow or never. I think that we who understand BTC (more or less) should not be burdened by what an individual thinks about it, no matter what his name was and how much money he had. The strength of BTC is that there are tens of millions of those who consider it something revolutionary and valuable, and far from that we need to care what private entrepreneurs think about it.

Would Bitcoin be better if WB said something positive on the subject? Well of course it wouldn't be, because most just want him to invest in BTC and so pull some others who have an opinion like him. Let the WB and the old world go their way, dinosaurs don’t fit into the digital age anyway.

[hatshepsut93]

I'm not going to cut Warren Buffet any slack because he's a genius investor with great reputation. His statements are just ignorant, he says that he knows nothing about Bitcoin but this doesn't stop him from dismissing it. No self-respecting professional would make strong comments on something that they don't understand.

It's also strange that Buffet dismiss Bitcoin simply because it's not a stock. Does he have a problem with gold markets, commodities, currencies, etc. ?

[mindrust]

That is a very good summary of Warren Buffett's thoughts on Bitcoin. Good job OP you gathered them all in one place.

My opinion is that Warren has a few points here and there.

Bitcoin indeed attracts lots of scammers. Nobody can deny this. There are a whole world of clueless retards waiting to be scammed. We already have seen this in 2017 when the ICO stuff was happening and it still continues.

These manipulative assets (bitcoin is included because of tether) don't fit Warren's point of view because for the same reasons he doesn't like investing in gold neither.

He invests in Gold digging companies instead of investing in gold directly. That's because gold has industrial use probably. That's where he sees value in gold. Not because people use it as jewelry. That's my guess.

Here is where he is wrong:

Even if whatever he said about bitcoin was all true, the Fed can't stop printing money and covid19 gave them all the excuses they needed so the financial rules don't really matter anymore. It is so skewed any private companiy can print their own USD tokens and nobody gives a fuck if they are really backed or not.

In an ideal world a company without customers should go bankrupt. It shouldn't get help from the government. This is where the real problem starts and triggers even more money printing. We simply can't afford the death of some "special" companies and since they know this they can abuse it even more.

In nature the strong kills and eats the weak so the weak adapts to the situation and figures out other ways to survive. Everything comes to this in the end. We are prventing the evolution from happening and it will cost us big time.

[Hydrogen]

All quotations in OP were made when Warren Buffett was the largest holder of Wells Fargo stock

Since then Buffett trimmed his Wells Fargo stake down to roughly 25% of the holdings he left 3 years ago

Warren Buffett Continues To Cash Out Of Wells Fargo

Berkshire divested of 100.02 million shares of the San Francisco-based bank on Aug. 14, impacting the equity portfolio by -1.25%. It now owns a total of 137.5 million shares, which is a steep decline from the approximately 480 million shares held three years ago.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gurufocus/2020/09/08/warren-buffett-continues-to-cash-out-of-wells-fargo/?sh=7c4333504b93

....

Buffett was also a big holder of JP Morgan. A position which he appears to have since liquidated.

Berkshire Hathaway (NYSE: BRK-A)(NYSE: BRK-B) CEO Warren Buffett has now been dumping bank stocks for three straight quarters. But I was still surprised to see the Oracle of Omaha virtually eliminate Berkshire's stake in JPMorgan Chase (NYSE: JPM) in the third quarter of 2020.

Berkshire cut its holdings of JPMorgan from 22.2 million shares, worth more than $2 billion, to less than 1 million shares, worth less than $100 million. That's down even more since the end of 2019, when Berkshire owned more than 59 million shares of JPMorgan, valued at nearly $8.3 billion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/is-jpmorgan-chase-still-a-warren-buffett-stock/ar-BB1cEbSi

....

If someone asked Warren Buffett to comment on bitcoin today.

They might receive a completely different answer in contrast to his response back when Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway was a large holder of bank stocks.

Banks at the time viewed bitcoin as a rival and competitor, which made holders of bank industry stock somewhat polarized.

[Shasha80]

Most people who are successful and old age are difficult to accept new things, maybe that's what happened to Warren Buffett. But I can understand
why not everyone accepts Bitcoin, because not everyone understands Bitcoin. Maybe Buffett has a hard time understanding Bitcoin, so he's not
interested in investing in something he simply doesn't understand. But what pissed me off against Warren Buffett are some of his pretty harsh
words against Bitcoin, which makes me as a Bitcoin believer quite hurt to hear it. Buffett shouldn't have said such harsh things if he really didn't
like Bitcoin.

[Darker45]

I think wealthy investors do not just invest in things they do not understand and personally like. Whether a certain investment is profitable or not won't matter to them if it is not really their cup of tea. They wouldn't mind leaving a promising asset behind for something else they are passionate about.

This might be what this is all about. Warren Buffet has his own bases in terms of investment and Bitcoin is not in his personal taste. He's got his own opinion. Let him do his thing in peace. Why do we sometimes sound so bitter that Warren is rejecting our advances?

[Adamini]

Warren Buffett is a respectable tutor and his philosophy has helped me a lot in many things
In terms of bitcoin, everyone has the right to express their opinions,
When someone has a different opinion from you, do not refute them first,
At a specific point in time, everyone's views and opinions will be verified, and what we need to do now is to accept and allow questions to be kept

[Sithara007]

Most people who are successful and old age are difficult to accept new things, maybe that's what happened to Warren Buffett. But I can understand
why not everyone accepts Bitcoin, because not everyone understands Bitcoin. Maybe Buffett has a hard time understanding Bitcoin, so he's not
interested in investing in something he simply doesn't understand. But what pissed me off against Warren Buffett are some of his pretty harsh
words against Bitcoin, which makes me as a Bitcoin believer quite hurt to hear it. Buffett shouldn't have said such harsh things if he really didn't
like Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter whether they are successful or not. Old people have an aversion to new technology. A few years back, while trying to popularize Bitcoin I found out that the elderly are the lest interested in new innovations such as Bitcoin. The younger people were at least ready to listen, but most of the oldies would drop out of the conversation within one or two minutes. Mr. Buffet is 90 years old, and I don't really expect him to approve new technology.

[Karartma1]

Most people who are successful and old age are difficult to accept new things, maybe that's what happened to Warren Buffett. But I can understand
why not everyone accepts Bitcoin, because not everyone understands Bitcoin. Maybe Buffett has a hard time understanding Bitcoin, so he's not
interested in investing in something he simply doesn't understand. But what pissed me off against Warren Buffett are some of his pretty harsh
words against Bitcoin, which makes me as a Bitcoin believer quite hurt to hear it. Buffett shouldn't have said such harsh things if he really didn't
like Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter whether they are successful or not. Old people have an aversion to new technology. A few years back, while trying to popularize Bitcoin I found out that the elderly are the lest interested in new innovations such as Bitcoin. The younger people were at least ready to listen, but most of the oldies would drop out of the conversation within one or two minutes. Mr. Buffet is 90 years old, and I don't really expect him to approve new technology.

Come on that's an overstatement: I can't believe you have never witnessed any tech-savvy old-timer! I know many actually, and a few a of them got into bitcoin thanks to my explanations and some of them know bitcoin better than me now, given their past background in IT and economics. WB represents another financial world that can't recognize bitcoin, just yet.

[aoluain]

Most people who are successful and old age are difficult to accept new things, maybe that's what happened to Warren Buffett. But I can understand
why not everyone accepts Bitcoin, because not everyone understands Bitcoin. Maybe Buffett has a hard time understanding Bitcoin, so he's not
interested in investing in something he simply doesn't understand. But what pissed me off against Warren Buffett are some of his pretty harsh
words against Bitcoin, which makes me as a Bitcoin believer quite hurt to hear it. Buffett shouldn't have said such harsh things if he really didn't
like Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter whether they are successful or not. Old people have an aversion to new technology. A few years back, while trying to popularize Bitcoin I found out that the elderly are the lest interested in new innovations such as Bitcoin. The younger people were at least ready to listen, but most of the oldies would drop out of the conversation within one or two minutes. Mr. Buffet is 90 years old, and I don't really expect him to approve new technology.

Come on that's an overstatement: I can't believe you have never witnessed any tech-savvy old-timer! I know many actually, and a few a of them got into bitcoin thanks to my explanations and some of them know bitcoin better than me now, given their past background in IT and economics. WB represents another financial world that can't recognize bitcoin, just yet.

My parents who are in their 70's own Bitcoin, ok I had to buy it and
store it for them but they saw the opportunity to grow their savings.
They understood that their savings in their bank account were staying
static at best in value.

I wouldnt call them tech savvy but they understand it to a degree, I'm
sure there are plenty more elderly investors.

As regards Berkshire Hathaway yes it can only be a matter of time when
they recognise Bitcoin favourably after WB retires.

[Psynthax]

Isnt there article saying that warren buffet isn't really interested in investing into tech? It's only normal if warren buffet is just analyzing based on whatever theories he has and don't really understand the tech behind bitcoin, heck even some middle aged people couldn't grasp the underlying technology if they aren't tech savvy enough and crypto as a whole is kinda complicated if you try to dive in.
 
Also, some really old people hardly accept any change and maybe warren buffet is one of them when it comes to digitalization and at this point I'd be more amazed if he changes his mind about cryptocurrency.

[Lucius]

If someone asked Warren Buffett to comment on bitcoin today.
They might receive a completely different answer in contrast to his response back when Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway was a large holder of bank stocks.
Banks at the time viewed bitcoin as a rival and competitor, which made holders of bank industry stock somewhat polarized.

I wouldn’t bet that he would ever change his mind, even though he may have liquidated some of his positions in the banking sector. He has repeatedly expressed his opinion quite clearly on the subject of Bitcoin, and I think his ego does not allow him to admit that he was wrong (even if he thought so personally). 

The gist of the whole story may be contained in this article that tries to explain why Buffett will never invest in BTC ->

Bitcoin Jumps To $34,000, But Here’s Why Warren Buffett Will Never Own It

[darewaller]

I think you are mistaking one thing about him that everyone forgets. Dude invests only into stuff that he thinks undervalued and has intrinsic value that is higher than the stock price. His mentor was Benjamin Graham who wrote the intelligent investor and for all his life Warren Buffet never made an investment that was overvalued or had no intrinsic value at all, for example he has been friends with Bill Gates for over 2 decades now, and he has never invested to microsoft, but he did invested to apple, why? Because, he believed there was a value and the stock was undervalued.

Bitcoin doesn't really have a specific value, we put a value in it, and that is why he will never understand why we buy it, because in the end we are not doing this investment just for profit (there might be some) but we are doing it because we want to get away from fiat and he may not understand that ever.

[Hydrogen]

The gist of the whole story may be contained in this article that tries to explain why Buffett will never invest in BTC ->

Bitcoin Jumps To $34,000, But Here’s Why Warren Buffett Will Never Own It

...

• Warren Buffett owns stock in the banking industry
• The banking industry buys and holds bitcoin
• Warren Buffett owns bitcoin, by owning the stock of banks, who own bitcoin

Its the same as the CEO of JP Morgan, Jamie Dimon, making comments on bitcoin.

Before JP Morgan adopted crypto investment.

[iv4n]

Warren Buffet said:"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die."! I respect that!

.....

...

• Warren Buffett owns stock in the banking industry
• The banking industry buys and holds bitcoin
• Warren Buffett owns bitcoin, by owning the stock of banks, who own bitcoin

Its the same as the CEO of JP Morgan, Jamie Dimon, making comments on bitcoin.

Before JP Morgan adopted crypto investment.

I think you have a point Hydrogen, in some way Warren Buffett has to be connected with crypto, through his companies! And excellent reminder about JP Morgan!
People are not from stone, so it's normal for people to change their mind from time to time! And I think many people changed their mind about crypto, and many more will... just give them time!
One of my good friends said that he will buy bitcoin when it drops to $20k, and if that happens... I am talking about bitcoin since $150...and he had many comments, conspiracy theories...but after recent ATH he said he is buying a wallet (like the one I have) and he is buying bitcoins... I almost forgot, he saw in newspapers something about the report from Wall Street, I told him more about it and said I am waiting that moment to see him owning BTC after so many years of talking against it!

If you wish to see more about the Wall Street report, one of the members here have a nice topic about it... here it is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5304479.msg55958296#msg55958296

[mindrust]

Warren Buffet said:"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die."! I respect that!

I don't know what you understand from that quote but I think is misunderstood.

I believe what he really means here is "You will work until you die because it is impossible to make money while you sleep."

It also depends on the definition of "making money" everybody gets it differently I guess.

[iv4n]

Warren Buffet said:"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die."! I respect that!

I don't know what you understand from that quote but I think is misunderstood.

I believe what he really means here is "You will work until you die because it is impossible to make money while you sleep."

It also depends on the definition of "making money" everybody gets it differently I guess.

If you think it's impossible to make money while you sleep than you need to think everything all over again! I don't know what did you learn for all this time spent in crypto (you are a legendary member man!), but I guess you need to learn some things again! You can invest in services/projects and to have passive income! It was available before in many ways, but I guess crypto made all that much easier!
I didn't misunderstand it, I understood it as it's written... you either bust your ass every day for your paycheck, or you arrange "things" somehow to earn while you sleep (you don't have to be present somewhere, you don't need to bust your ass on rain and snow...)!
You "make money" or you don't "make money"! There're no definitions here, what we can discuss here is the "ways" of "making money"... the first one is legal or illegal... later we can divide it on other ways!

[jrrsparkles]

I think wealthy investors do not just invest in things they do not understand and personally like. Whether a certain investment is profitable or not won't matter to them if it is not really their cup of tea. They wouldn't mind leaving a promising asset behind for something else they are passionate about.

This might be what this is all about. Warren Buffet has his own bases in terms of investment and Bitcoin is not in his personal taste. He's got his own opinion. Let him do his thing in peace. Why do we sometimes sound so bitter that Warren is rejecting our advances?

Yes he is successful because he is investing only on the assets which he has deep knowledge about since his childhood days by tat time there is bitcoin and blockchain that is why it is hard for him to accept the blockchain technology even is something unique and hackproof.

Most of his followers are also having the same mindset, they don't want to invest on bitcoin because they believe that bitcoin total supply can be altered someday just because the creator wants to make some money.

[Karartma1]

Warren Buffet said:"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die."! I respect that!

I don't know what you understand from that quote but I think is misunderstood.

I believe what he really means here is "You will work until you die because it is impossible to make money while you sleep."

It also depends on the definition of "making money" everybody gets it differently I guess.

Passive income can come in many forms like renting some real estate, saving accounts, dividends and the list goes on. Even in the crypto world if you would like to take some risk you can get some interest on your crypto holdings on both CeFi (Nexo, BlockFi...) and DeFi (Compound, AAVE...) platforms.
There are definitely some ways to earn while you sleep.

[mindrust]

Passive income can come in many forms like renting some real estate, saving accounts, dividends and the list goes on. Even in the crypto world if you would like to take some risk you can get some interest on your crypto holdings on both CeFi (Nexo, BlockFi...) and DeFi (Compound, AAVE...) platforms.
There are definitely some ways to earn while you sleep.

Taking risks to make money is not passive income. That was my point.

You rent your real estate, that's not passive income. That's just another business which you'll have to keep your eyes on because the tenants always carry some risks.

Managing your risks = business. That's not passive income. Now you should realize everything you do to make money has its own risks that means it is not passive.