Warren Buffett & "Rat Poison"

[cheezcarls]

Now that Bitcoin has reached beyond its limits, I don’t know what Warren Buffett has to say. What kind of new nickname does he have for Bitcoin now? His “rat poison” Bitcoin nickname have failed. I started losing my respect to this guy because he thinks that the traditional way of investing is still the most effective up to date, but it looks like he’s got it all wrong because he is left behind by the Bitcoin train.

[bits4books]

But maybe we will not deceive ourselves and agree with the fact that cryptocurrencies have no value as such because they do not produce anything? This is really just a fiction, a surrogate, an attempt to be money without being money. Every dollar spent leads to the fact that somewhere something is produced again or makes production easier-better-better. While BTC exists a long time ago only for the sake of making a larger number of dollars out of a small number of dollars.

[bits4books]

Now that Bitcoin has reached beyond its limits, I don’t know what Warren Buffett has to say. What kind of new nickname does he have for Bitcoin now? His “rat poison” Bitcoin nickname have failed. I started losing my respect to this guy because he thinks that the traditional way of investing is still the most effective up to date, but it looks like he’s got it all wrong because he is left behind by the Bitcoin train.

Beyond what limits? An endless increase in the price and then its collapse and repeated increase and so on in a circle-this is not going beyond the limits of possibilities but the usual cyclicity. There is no over-overcoming and change of form both in oneself and in the public consciousness.

[NASdaq]

He is just too old for btc. At least, he is not shorting it. He is not our enemy

[Karartma1]

Passive income can come in many forms like renting some real estate, saving accounts, dividends and the list goes on. Even in the crypto world if you would like to take some risk you can get some interest on your crypto holdings on both CeFi (Nexo, BlockFi...) and DeFi (Compound, AAVE...) platforms.
There are definitely some ways to earn while you sleep.

Taking risks to make money is not passive income. That was my point.

You rent your real estate, that's not passive income. That's just another business which you'll have to keep your eyes on because the tenants always carry some risks.

Managing your risks = business. That's not passive income. Now you should realize everything you do to make money has its own risks that means it is not passive.

Risk is always involved! Unless you want to patronize me like Robert Kiyosaki would do about the difference between assets/liabilities...
https://www.richdad.com/what-are-assets-and-liabilities
Whatever form of passive income you may think of, will always imply risks! Even when you cross the road, you may accidentally die.

[aoluain]

Now that Bitcoin has reached beyond its limits, I don’t know what Warren Buffett has to say. What kind of new nickname does he have for Bitcoin now? His “rat poison” Bitcoin nickname have failed. I started losing my respect to this guy because he thinks that the traditional way of investing is still the most effective up to date, but it looks like he’s got it all wrong because he is left behind by the Bitcoin train.

Beyond what limits? An endless increase in the price and then its collapse and repeated increase and so on in a circle-this is not going beyond the limits of possibilities but the usual cyclicity. There is no over-overcoming and change of form both in oneself and in the public consciousness.

In the eyes of the critics it has reached beyond their vision if its limitations.
We may see a statement from him this year at some stage, so many
people will be wanting to see if he is positive now that so many institutional
investors have made a move into Bitcoin, and his interviews are always
news worthy. The media definitely will have him in their sights for interviewing.

[mindrust]

Passive income can come in many forms like renting some real estate, saving accounts, dividends and the list goes on. Even in the crypto world if you would like to take some risk you can get some interest on your crypto holdings on both CeFi (Nexo, BlockFi...) and DeFi (Compound, AAVE...) platforms.
There are definitely some ways to earn while you sleep.

Taking risks to make money is not passive income. That was my point.

You rent your real estate, that's not passive income. That's just another business which you'll have to keep your eyes on because the tenants always carry some risks.

Managing your risks = business. That's not passive income. Now you should realize everything you do to make money has its own risks that means it is not passive.

Risk is always involved! Unless you want to patronize me like Robert Kiyosaki would do about the difference between assets/liabilities...
https://www.richdad.com/what-are-assets-and-liabilities
Whatever form of passive income you may think of, will always imply risks! Even when you cross the road, you may accidentally die.

Simple question:

Let's say you own 50 different real estate which you collect rent from. Would you consider this passive income or a separate business?

I think that's a business. It would be passive income maybe if someone else was dealing with the tenants though but then you need to deal with him. 

[jaysabi]

I know it's incredibly trendy in the crypto community to hate on Buffet, but one of the quotes you quoted on him is not only true, nobody here is able to rebut it:

“You’re just hoping the next guy pays more. And you only feel you’ll find the next guy to pay more if he thinks
he’s going to find someone that’s going to pay more. You aren’t investing when you do that, you’re speculating.”

This is bitcoin in a nutshell. No intrinsic value, doesn't produce income, it is merely a speculative asset and the only thing that gives it value is a large group of people agreeing it has value.

Here's the thing- if you think bitcoin doesn't have value, you won't buy it. If you think it does, you will. Neither of you are right because there is no objective truth to this. And both of you are right because there is no objective truth to this. You cannot sell bitcoin to someone who doesn't think it has value. The only reason those who have bitcoin think it has value is because you think you can sell it to someone else who also thinks it has value. Exactly like Buffet said.  This is the very definition of arbitrary value. This is what makes it speculative.

[MCobian]

I don't know the real reason why Warren Buffett always thinks negatively about Bitcoin, I think Buffett will not withdraw his words about Bitcoin
at any time. Indeed, the fact is Bitcoin may not be liked by everyone, there will always be people who hate Bitcoin. We really shouldn't force
someone to like Bitcoin, because everyone has their own choice. Even I can't convince everyone in my environment that Bitcoin is the best asset
for now.

[Sithara007]

I don't know the real reason why Warren Buffett always thinks negatively about Bitcoin, I think Buffett will not withdraw his words about Bitcoin
at any time. Indeed, the fact is Bitcoin may not be liked by everyone, there will always be people who hate Bitcoin. We really shouldn't force
someone to like Bitcoin, because everyone has their own choice. Even I can't convince everyone in my environment that Bitcoin is the best asset
for now.

Warren Buffet is free to voice his opinions. He is having a negative view about Bitcoin and let's respect his views. Cryptocurrency users need to ask this question - does Bitcoin needs Warren Buffet? I would say that the answer is no. He was a successful investor, but that was many decades ago. Now the best thing for us to do is not to give him unwanted attention, especially when he is badmouthing Bitcoin.

[jaysabi]

I don't know the real reason why Warren Buffett always thinks negatively about Bitcoin, I think Buffett will not withdraw his words about Bitcoin
at any time. Indeed, the fact is Bitcoin may not be liked by everyone, there will always be people who hate Bitcoin. We really shouldn't force
someone to like Bitcoin, because everyone has their own choice. Even I can't convince everyone in my environment that Bitcoin is the best asset
for now.

Buffet is a value investor, so he depends on an analysis of the valuation of a stock to its projected future cash flows to determine what a good investment is over time. Since Bitcoin doesn't produce cashflow, he has no basis for valuing it. It's really as simple as that.

[Karartma1]

Passive income can come in many forms like renting some real estate, saving accounts, dividends and the list goes on. Even in the crypto world if you would like to take some risk you can get some interest on your crypto holdings on both CeFi (Nexo, BlockFi...) and DeFi (Compound, AAVE...) platforms.
There are definitely some ways to earn while you sleep.

Taking risks to make money is not passive income. That was my point.

You rent your real estate, that's not passive income. That's just another business which you'll have to keep your eyes on because the tenants always carry some risks.

Managing your risks = business. That's not passive income. Now you should realize everything you do to make money has its own risks that means it is not passive.

Risk is always involved! Unless you want to patronize me like Robert Kiyosaki would do about the difference between assets/liabilities...
https://www.richdad.com/what-are-assets-and-liabilities
Whatever form of passive income you may think of, will always imply risks! Even when you cross the road, you may accidentally die.

Simple question:

Let's say you own 50 different real estate which you collect rent from. Would you consider this passive income or a separate business?

I think that's a business. It would be passive income maybe if someone else was dealing with the tenants though but then you need to deal with him.  

If there's no material involvement from your side, i.e. you simply collect a percentage of earning from the tenants then yes that is passive income. Let's not play the specifications game here, I only wanted to stress the fact that even with passive income there is risk involved, you can't simply rule that out.

[jaysabi]

The joke is on us, if we take this loser seriously. Buffet no longer rank among the top-10 richest people in the world. I have to agree that he was successful in the past, but a lot of factors contributed to his success. If others had the same amount of capital as he had, then we would have seen many others with much more good looking portfolios. My advice is to ignore this guy. He is not useful anymore and I hope that jokers such as Justin Sun realize this.

Oh, has he fallen out of the list of the top 10 richest people in world? Like all the way down to number 7?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/10-richest-people-in-the-world-list-of-wealthiest-people-on-earth-as-elon-musk-knocks-jeff-bezos-off-top-spot/ar-BB1cAbGB

But let's pretend he had fallen out of the top ten richest people on the planet, like all the way down to 15.  Or 20, oh the humanity! Let's pretend there were a ton of people who ranked above him now and the only thing he did was increase his wealth 22 billion dollars between March 2020 and January 2021. (True story!  It was only 67.5 billion last March:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Billionaires#2020)  I mean wow, what a loser, amirite?

[jostorres]

In the eyes of the critics it has reached beyond their vision if its limitations.
We may see a statement from him this year at some stage, so many
people will be wanting to see if he is positive now that so many institutional
investors have made a move into Bitcoin, and his interviews are always
news worthy. The media definitely will have him in their sights for interviewing.

There are some people with visions which are limited, and there some people who think its unlimited supply of money that can be earned as well, you have to find the middle. People who always say "bitcoin is dead" or "bitcoin will die" type of things are wrong, there is really nothing that can kill bitcoin and it will always go higher and higher, but people should realize that there could be corrections or crashes in between as well, do not assume it will be a million dollars in a day, that is a bit wrong too.

I do not get why people think it is an "either or" situation, bitcoin doesn't have to die, it doesn't have to be a million dollars neither, it just needs to go high and that's it nothing more. It is going to take a while for bitcoin to reach 100k, or even a million dollars one day, but if you look at close levels you can see 50k is quite possible.

[mindrust]

If there's no material involvement from your side, i.e. you simply collect a percentage of earning from the tenants then yes that is passive income. Let's not play the specifications game here, I only wanted to stress the fact that even with passive income there is risk involved, you can't simply rule that out.

That's if the tenants are all decent people. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes they damage your property, refuse to pay the rent and not even go away. My father had one tenant like that and it took 1 full year before he get rid of him.

My point is, he spent his time on this individual. Lost both his time and money. That's not passive income.

Of course sometimes you just get lucky and collect the rents without any trouble but it is getting more rare lately considering the financial situation of most families out there.

And if you have more than 10 tenants it is very likely that there will be at least one nut that's going to drive you crazy. If you keep your passive stance and ignore him, then he will live in your house free of charge. 

[Silberman]

“Why in the world should I take a long or short position in something I don’t know anything about.”

Exactly. This is the reason why he will never invest in bitcoin. It's because he doesn't fully understand how it works and why it works. Buffett is exhibiting the bias that he has on traditional, regulated assets that he has known for a long time, and is refusing to acknowledge any merits whatsoever that bitcoin and cryptocurrencies has under their belt.

Buffett is beyond 'saving' at this point on his neck-deep involvement on assets that made him filthy rich, and I couldn't blame him about that.

It's okay if he releases such remarks against bitcoin from time to time, as bitcoin slowly proves its point every time the billionaire comments negatively about bitcoin. This way, people will have some sort of 'basis' on whether or night Buffett is right or not.

Personally I would not have any kind of problem with Warren Buffett if that was the explanation that he gave for why he did not invest in bitcoin and he leaved it at that, to me it is completely natural that you do not want to invest in something that you don't understand and if you are making already a lot of money in other investments then why bother with bitcoin? However despite not understanding the technology and why something like bitcoin exists he takes the time to criticize it and that's the main problem that I have with him.

[TheGreatPython]

After seeing recently some tweets aimed at Buffett and quoting the famous RAT POISON attack by Buffett I decided to
list his other quotes against Bitcoin.

I don’t really like engaging in this kind of arguments with people, when they start up things like this, I just tell them that Bitcoin wasn’t meant for things like this, I refer them back to when Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin and what he had in mind, which was just to create a decentralized money and nothing else, but since it has a price and it fluctuates, people now sees it as a money making means, and there have been stories of those that became millionaires through it, and everyone now wants to be a millionaire through Bitcoin. Let’s not forget the main purpose for transactions, they are now trying to divert everything.

[Nhazwrath]

In the 90's when Microsoft was getting going and Bill gates started to have some serious money.  and I might get this wrong since I heard the story many years ago.

Bill gates met Mr Buffett at a party of some sort and Mr Gates asked Mr Buffett to invest in Microsoft and Buffett said. " Will it change how I chew gum?" and didn't invest at that time in MS. 

His point was examined by people smarter then me and basically it was he saw the tech as changing fast enough to not understand it or where it was going and thus didn't invest.

He wanted then and still does very stable long term investments.   Bitcoin is anything but stable and while we wish and predict where its going the reality is Its Speculation with a lot of upside and seems to be gaining ground.   If you are interested in the details on the investing style, Phil Town runs a podcast called InvestED where is breaks down how Buffett and Munger function.   BTW Mr Town is worth 15 billion or so.  So I don't think hes full of crap.  He calls it Rule 1 investing.     Amazing simple the rule is :  Don't lose money.    And then goes about telling you how to not lose money.  And while I'm no expert And I'm not worth much I haven't yet lost money.

The speculators and investors seems to be at odds all the time they shouldn't be, they need each other.  Without speculators there would be nothing to invest in, and without investors there wouldn't be money to speculate.

[7788bitcoin]

Passive income can come in many forms like renting some real estate, saving accounts, dividends and the list goes on. Even in the crypto world if you would like to take some risk you can get some interest on your crypto holdings on both CeFi (Nexo, BlockFi...) and DeFi (Compound, AAVE...) platforms.
There are definitely some ways to earn while you sleep.

Everything has its risk, if you are having a property which you have attained when the valuation was lower, then the risk is lower but if you are someone who recently purchased the property then there is a chance that the market could go down if there is an economic recession and that is the case with every other investment. Not tried any of the crypto holdings you mentioned, if it can survive the next 5 years then it is great as i highly doubt whether those will last.

[el kaka22]

Honestly at 90 years old, what do you expect from him? Dude was born in 1930, by comparison the world war 2 happened when he was a teenager, at 15 years old, nearly old enough to join it himself as well. Dude grew up in one of the worse periods of humanity, his father was a very rich man with a lot of money to spare, he started his career with 100k from his family to start investing and never had a troubled life ever, dude even drinks coca cola everyday and eats candy and french fries and still managed to live until 90, so we can safely assume he is one of the luckiest people in the world ever in history.

This doesn't discredit the fact that he is probably the greatest investor ever, rarely ever lost money and always had a sustained profit for decades, but when you are that good and everything goes great, why even try to learn about new things like bitcoin when you are 90?