Sportsbet.io fake slot RTP(0.356BTC loss)

[walsilkb]

What happened:

On 02.01.2021 I started playing the Bubbles Bonanza slot game on sportsbet because of the decent RTP+it looked fun, at first I deposited a small amount and won some and after that I lost and deposited more and lost again until I deposited all the balance from my wallet and lost everything, this happened over the span of 3 days.

The issue is that I had a weird feeling while I played because even as I deposited bigger amounts and played a lot of hands over these 3 days, it was as the RTP was lower than it should and I was losing money faster than I should. I know that this can happen due to variance(bad luck) but as the sample size increases variance gets lower as I've probably played ten's of thousands of hands this shouldn't be a problem. There is no hand history for slots on sportsbet but I can prove I played a lot of hands as I accumulated a lot of Clubhouse points and got into the Titanium Tier(2nd biggest Tier):
https://upld.im/images/zoJ3kQ.png

After a couple of days passed and I cleared my mind I started to investigate my suspicion, that I wasn't getting back as much as I should and that I lost faster than I should, what I've done next was to check the sportsbet game for its RTP. Sportbet.io list it on the game page(Bubbles Bonanza) twice as being 97.42%, here is a screenshot showing that:
https://upld.im/images/zoJZlR.png

But I wanted to check the real RTP and this was pretty easy as just by using the firefox developer console and looking through the requests. I found the game settings being returned by the game developers server:
https://upld.im/images/zoJs5e.png
This is the settings.json file returned with the game settings when the game is loading on sportsbet.io, in there it can be seen that the RTP is set to 95.82%.

Also I checked the game developers(OneTouch) website and found the game listed and the RTP reported as 95.82%:
https://www.onetouch.io/games/bubbles-bonanza/
https://upld.im/images/zoJOqp.png

As it can be seen from both sources the real RTP is 95.82% which if you don't understand how these games work doesn't look so low but what matters is the difference between the real house edge and the listed house edge. If you compare the difference between the fake house edge(2.58) and the real house edge(4.18) the difference is that 4.18 is a 62% increase of 2.58. This proves that my suspicion was true and I've been misled by sportsbet into thinking I had 62% better RTP than I had which over the long term makes a very big difference and eats your balance a lot faster, I used site this to calculate the % difference:
https://upld.im/images/zoJTAq.png

Due to this I think I have the right to request a refund of what I lost because I was misled by sportsbet and the game was not fair, this amounts to 356.0113mBTC I deposited and lost playing Bubbles Bonanza between 02.01.2021-04.01.2021. This was probably a mistake on their end and I will explain that later in the topic!

Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=832366
Reference Link: https://sportsbet.io/casino/video-slots/bubbles-bonanza
Amount: 356.0113mBTC
Payment Method: Bitcoin
Proof of Payment: https://upld.im/images/zoJX1Z.png
PM/Chat Logs: None as I haven't talked to them about this because I wanted to inform the community first so that other players will know to avoid this game.

Additional Notes:
1. Please don't play this game!
2. I have a request to whoever reads this topic, please visit Bubbles Bonanza and take a screenshot to confirm from multiple sources the RTP listed on sportsbet.io. If you can please also take a screenshot with the settings.json from the developer console. I've posted in my second post in this topic the instructions on how to do this in firefox. I ask you this because due to them using cloudflare I was unable to use PageSigner to sign the webpage as absolute proof they listed that RTP(95.82%). I also tried a few other method to sign the page but couldn't succeed due different reasons, mainly cloudflare being a bitch, I even tried to use archive.org to archive the page but it didn't work.
3. I want to say that I don't have any reason to believe sportsbet are scammers. I say this because I checked a couple of other games from the same game developer(OneTouch) and all the other game's listed RTP's are the real ones also listed on OneTouch!

Edit: Added request for the readers to also take screenshot of settings.json.

[actmyname]

As it can be seen from both sources the real RTP is 95.82% which if you don't understand how these games work doesn't look so low but what matters is the difference between the real house edge and the listed house edge. If you compare the difference between the fake house edge(2.58) and the real house edge(4.18) the difference is that 4.18 is a 62% increase of 2.58. This proves that my suspicion was true and I've been misled by sportsbet into thinking I had 62% better RTP than I had which over the long term makes a very big difference and eats your balance a lot faster

Just to toss in a sense of scale:

With any arbitrary starting balance, instead of wagering your balance about 26 times on average for it to deplete to 50% of the starting amount, the changed RTP would last you only 16 balance wagers. You're effectively playing an extra round of roulette for no additional benefit with the house edge increase.If anyone is able to find the game-reported RTP on the actual slot, then that would add some more credence to your claim: the reason I say this is because (afaik) there is some customizability with RTP for certain casinos and games, and I'm not sure if that is the case here.

[walsilkb]

As it can be seen from both sources the real RTP is 95.82% which if you don't understand how these games work doesn't look so low but what matters is the difference between the real house edge and the listed house edge. If you compare the difference between the fake house edge(2.58) and the real house edge(4.18) the difference is that 4.18 is a 62% increase of 2.58. This proves that my suspicion was true and I've been misled by sportsbet into thinking I had 62% better RTP than I had which over the long term makes a very big difference and eats your balance a lot faster

Just to toss in a sense of scale:

With any arbitrary starting balance, instead of wagering your balance about 26 times on average for it to deplete to 50% of the starting amount, the changed RTP would last you only 16 balance wagers. You're effectively playing an extra round of roulette for no additional benefit with the house edge increase.If anyone is able to find the game-reported RTP on the actual slot, then that would add some more credence to your claim: the reason I say this is because (afaik) there is some customizability with RTP for certain casinos and games, and I'm not sure if that is the case here.

About your calculations about the number of wagered balances, I didn't check to see if the math is right but I trust your word. But one very important thing you didn't factor in is that the probability in those 16 extra balance wagers of me getting lucky and winning my initial balance back or the probability of me stopping from playing. Which both means that I would have had more chances to win or to stop, which is the point here, I was robbed of these chances by the considerably higher RTL. I played this slot specifically due to the high reported RTP, which is not the real RTP and is misleading all the players. I wouldn't play a slot online with 95.82% RTP because that's what I usually find at playing slots in physical casinos that have a lot of extra costs+provide a lot of other bonuses. Due to all these reasons I'm asking for a refund as this was a mistake on their end. This is also the reason I didn't accuse them of scamming as I checked the other games reported RTP and it coincides with the RTP found in the setting.json file which gets loaded  when you load the game on sportsbet and also from the one listed on the Onetouch website.

You can check the game reported RTP by visiting the slot on sportbet.io:
https://sportsbet.io/casino/video-slots/bubbles-bonanza - it shows Theoretical RTP 97.42% and its also listed later down in the game details.

Now to check the real slot RTP you can open the developer console(press F12 in firefox) and go to the to the Network Tab. Now refresh the page and search for settinsg.json which is loaded from the files.onetouch.io(game developer server). After that go the to response tab in the right, scroll down you'll be able to see that the game RTP is rtp:"95.82%". This is the screenshot with the devconsole from my initial post, you should also see this:
https://upld.im/image/settings.zoJs5e

You can also check the reported RTP for the slot from the developers website(Rtp: 95.82%):
https://www.onetouch.io/games/bubbles-bonanza/

Another proof is that if you visit the link to the game on sportsbet and check under the Theoretical RTP 97.42%.  You will see that the RTP for this slot for the whole month is 94.91, which is much closer to the real RTP:
https://upld.im/images/zHCqDQ.png


This is the reason why I asked everybody to do this, so nobody has to take my work for granted, please do this if you have the time and post your results here!
I've also tried to use TLSNotarry to notarize the page but unfortunately due to Cloudflare is not working.

[actmyname]

I've also tried to use TLSNotarry to notarize the page but unfortunately due to Cloudflare is not working.

https://archive.is/jRPt0 Best I've got for you in terms of capturing the site.

I do confirm your claim regarding the RTP settings, but again, I can't be sure whether these are actual game settings or whether these are just the default ones which offer some server-side tinkering. I would like to see Sportsbet reply to the issue though: at the very least, the numbers need to change.

But one very important thing you didn't factor in is that the probability in those 16 extra balance wagers of me getting lucky and winning my initial balance back or the probability of me stopping from playing. Which both means that I would have had more chances to win or to stop, which is the point here

I'm taking the expected value, meaning the average amount of time across all possibilities. If 100 people played, the average amount of times they wagered their balance would be 16 times - to get to half of their original balance.

[AB de Royse777]

I have no idea what is RTP? Read the conversation more than once but still not sure if I understood clearly. What understand is the odd or chances of winning to be higher but it was lower or something LOL. Maybe I should start playing casino slots :-D

Anyway, watching the progress. Hopefully everything ends well.

[numanoid]

I have no idea what is RTP?

Return To Player

[AB de Royse777]

I have no idea what is RTP?

Return To Player

Thanks. Yes I get that part, but the whole thing is not clear to me to be honest.

For example:

If a game has a stated RTP of 92%, it generally means players can expect the game to return £0.92 in the £1.00 (or currency equivalent) over a long period of plays.

source
This means in the long run I am always losing 8% and the casino is gaining.

Why would I even play those slots in the first place :-P

Anyway, now question - is there any industry standard or a casino can set their own RTP and if they set their own RTP then do they show it in their terms and conditions or keep it hidden.

The entire concept is new to me, honestly speaking I never dealt or thought of such things even to exist. So, it's taking time for me to understand the entire case. Anyway let's hear something for the bookie itself.

[Rikafip]

Anyway, now question - is there any industry standard or a casino can set their own RTP and if they set their own RTP then do they show it in their terms and conditions or keep it hidden.

I think that depends on the countries/states. In some like UK (afaik) they don't have minimum  RTP set but they have to make RTP clearly visible, while for example Nevada has minimum at 75%, which in reality is really low and I doubt that many players would play at that casino for a longer period of time.

There is also a difference between online slot machines and physical, as online ones usually have higher RTP because physical slot machines have more expenditures so in order for casino to be profitable they simply have to have lower RTP. For example, I worked for years in several brick&mortar casinos (in Croatia) and RTP of our machines was usually around 90%, give or take a few percent. Then again we didn't have to disclose RTP at all.

[actmyname]

This means in the long run I am always losing 8% and the casino is gaining.

Actually, RTP is equivalent to expected value: EV. Every time you wager 1 unit, you can be expected to get RTP units back: therefore, a 92% RTP means that you are expected to lose 8% of a unit every time you wager 100% of the unit. That's why I wrote the situation about 16 full wagers vs. 26 full wagers: if we have a starting balance of $100, the resulting wagered amounts would be $1600 and $2600.

Why would I even play those slots in the first place :-P

Why would you ever gamble at -ev odds? For fun. Slots are primarily entertainment-driven as opposed to lower-edged table games.

Anyway, now question - is there any industry standard or a casino can set their own RTP and if they set their own RTP then do they show it in their terms and conditions or keep it hidden.

I have known of a few slots where the casino is able to modify the RTP unilaterally but I do not know if it applies to this specific provider and machine. That's why I was skeptical about the settings.json evidence.

[walsilkb]

https://archive.is/jRPt0 Best I've got for you in terms of capturing the site.

I do confirm your claim regarding the RTP settings, but again, I can't be sure whether these are actual game settings or whether these are just the default ones which offer some server-side tinkering. I would like to see Sportsbet reply to the issue though: at the very least, the numbers need to change.I'm taking the expected value, meaning the average amount of time across all possibilities. If 100 people played, the average amount of times they wagered their balance would be 16 times - to get to half of their original balance.

I'm sorry, I was in a hurry when I read your reply and didn't see the 50% part. Thanks for checking the settings file and for the archive.is capture, I've tried archive.org but it didn't work. You are right about RTP/EV and that's really what matters in any slot game, I would have wagered my balance 62% more times than I did until losing everything and in this time I could have stopped at any time. I was misled by the fake listed RTP and I was robbed of the posibility of wagering more and the extra time. About you not being sure the RTP from settings.json being the real one, I'm sure because the game is loaded from files.onetouch.io, the settings.json adn all the others files are loaded from the same server. Most importantly in any hand you play, there is a POST request to files.onetouch.io to ask for the hand results, this shows that everything depends on the OneTouch server. Everything is done server-side on the Onetouch server and the returned settings.json is the real one for the game, if the RTP would be altered then it would have been reflected in settings.json. For now the best proof I can provide for this is the slot RTP reported by sportsbet for the whole month, as everybody can see the whole month RTP across all players is 94.83:
https://upld.im/images/zHKW9b.png

This RTP is even lower than the one in settings.json and its probably due to variance, but it clearly shows that its a lot lower than the RTP sportsbet has listed and a lot closer to the real RTP. After creating this topic I've posted a link to in the sportsbet topic+I've PM'ed sportsbet but up until now its only silence from them. They should disable this game right away from their website until everything is cleared because as we speak players are losing their money and getting robbed by the fake RTP.

This means in the long run I am always losing 8% and the casino is gaining.

Why would I even play those slots in the first place :-P

Anyway, now question - is there any industry standard or a casino can set their own RTP and if they set their own RTP then do they show it in their terms and conditions or keep it hidden.

The entire concept is new to me, honestly speaking I never dealt or thought of such things even to exist. So, it's taking time for me to understand the entire case. Anyway let's hear something for the bookie itself.

You are right, in the long run you will 100% lose money, the more you play the more you'll lose, but there also exists the posibility of wining big. That possibility it's one of the reasons that people gamble, another one which is the reason I gamble is for fun as actmyname said. I know that in the long term I'll lose money but I usually gamble small amounts just for the thrill of the game. There is no industry standard, it usually depends on each countries regulation that mandates what the minimum RTP should be.

[sportsbet.io]

Hi guys,

Ive just read the PM i received and am looking at this.

All our slots are from third-party providers so I will pass this over to the sportsbet.io casino team to investigate further.

However, I do know for a fact all our slots provided are provably fair and some casino sessions don't always go as plan ( I can agree with that for sure! )

Anyhow, Ill get some solid answers and get back to you shortly.

thanks guys.

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

[walsilkb]

Just a quick update, I've been contacted by sportsbet and the game RTP has been modified to the real one(95.82%). I'll keep you all posted when I get more information from them and if they will reimburse my loss.

[ufaiz50]

Just a quick update, I've been contacted by sportsbet and the game RTP has been modified to the real one(95.82%). I'll keep you all posted when I get more information from them and if they will reimburse my loss.

How is that even possible that they can adjust it manually by themselves? If the software is from professional companies, then they should not be able at all to change this.
Or do i miss something?

[actmyname]

Or do i miss something?

The page has the RTP % on it.