EIP-1559 - Let's Talk

[alumar]

Good morning folks,

After having a bit of a back and forth with some of the Ethereum proponents on EIP-1559, I felt I should do some digging on price discovery vs supply/demand argument being put for on how Ethereum's Security argument is being portrayed as a 'we are paying to much for security, lets drive price by burning fees' argument is playing out with this approved EIP. I felt it would be best said vs. the linear approach at writing the points. 

https://youtu.be/rfU-Mm3L2Yc

What are some of your stories for a possible future testimonial I will use in further discussions with Ethereum Developers. Help me tell them part of your mining story.

• How did you Discover Ethereum
• Do you mine? What was your first attempt, single GPU or a rig?
• What were your set expectations when you made that decision, based on what?
• Has the experience in ethereum mining change your life in anyway?
• What is your future planning with mining if ETH decides to drop fees and mining becomes net negative as network adjust?

You can add more to your story and I will try to include in one of my next upcoming videos. Thanks again for the correspondence my dudes. Cheers

[batsonxl]

i dont liked this idea eip1559 because what happens if users dont tip at all? Buterin will kill own coin himself.
My 1 card was hd4870 but it was not very good then i got 7870,380,470,480,1060,1070, very good times.....

[Greatdev]

With EIP 1559 mining won't be profitable anymore and this will also adjust the high gas fee on Ethereum network but where I'm confused is why we are told that Ethereum is switching to POS this year and nothing happened and now all buterin can come up with is EIP 1559

[sxemini]

With EIP 1559 mining won't be profitable anymore and this will also adjust the high gas fee on Ethereum network but where I'm confused is why we are told that Ethereum is switching to POS this year and nothing happened and now all buterin can come up with is EIP 1559

ETH switch to POS complete in 1 or 2 years.

[philipma1957]

The eth is being run it looks to me like the developer of it uses it to acquire  btc.

does not give a fuck about his own coin and it will all crash and burn down the road.

their is no reason for any pos coin to succeed long term.

they basically are no more then a junk bond backed by a central developer.

I give eth under 3 years if it turns full pos.

Many people don’t understand that gpu cards and gamers actually do mine about 1/2 the life of the card.

they get better gaming rigs that way.

I mine eth and dump it.

I bet the main developer does exactly

the same as I do dump eth to buy btc

[soda37]

Basically Ethereum Foundation is just another shitty enterprise like many classic international corpos who does not care about employees like we, miners. We buy our own tools to work as contract workers and invest into Ethereum indirectly by means of hardware/time/efforts/electricity and now the employer feels he is paying too much to his employees and performs "limited restructure" as it called in classic enterprises effectively cutting costs (read - number of miners/employees by mean of fees (read salary)) to make it's own products more attractive to shareholders and smaller investors who can't afford higher fees during periods of congestion. This is not how cryptocurrencies should work and it's not an idea behind. 

[KaratX]

Believe me vitalik buterin will bring down Ethereum if EIP 1559 did happen, miners have a huge part to play when mining the coin and thus keeping the coin alive in the process, it's why the POS idea was a very bad one, I though vitalik has learned but I am wrong

[peteycamey]

Disregarding miners is a huge mistake, ethereum will pay the price for Vitaliks ignorance.

[geoteo]

How difficult will it be to have a new development team fork away from this EIP-1559?, a team that would support POW and remove the ASICs. Would you support a new coin? I probably will with my 11.5 GH. What will happen to ETH then?

[64dimensions]

1) The manager(s) of ETH don't really understand that they have a good thing going for a lot of people with POW.

 There is a whole economic eco-system around ETH where people can make some money. GPU CPU manufacturing, MB's, SSD's etc. accessories, utilities, used stuff  etc etc. The barrier to entry for mining is pretty low and the infrastructure requirement(s) is basically just a 120VAC wall plug. Also I would guess that ETH has a better geographical distribution than BTC. I believe Phil said a few years(?) back that some companies could subsidize the ETH block reward because they are selling the shovels during the "gold" rush.

2) BTC also has some strategic problems that ETH doesn't have. As the value of BTC rises, you will have more and smarter people trying to hack BTC because the rewards are so very high. This is a reason I'm not 100% in BTC, because a hack will cause a loss of confidence which is a critical requirement for BTC.

3) IMHO ETH is plugged into the future in so many ways, while BTC is in some sense static. This is a consequence of being a one string guitar. BTC is getting the of attention finally of financial institutions, but at what cost?

4) I agree that if ETH is forked away from mining, that a copy of todays ETH should fork away from anything that negates mining.

[Gunday_07]

Buterin want to stop miners from getting richy rich with this EIP1559 but he have neglect the fact that the main reason why all eye are on Ethereum is because it's the most profitable coin to mine, this will be his biggest mistake that buterin will make and he will regret it forever

[melpheos]

The mining community needs you on Ethereum R&D EIP-1559 mining
https://discord.com/channels/595666850260713488/798586271445680129

Don't go there to just say you are against.
Explain why EIP-1559 is not a good solution for the way fees are calculated.

[VoskCoin]

Good morning folks,

After having a bit of a back and forth with some of the Ethereum proponents on EIP-1559, I felt I should do some digging on price discovery vs supply/demand argument being put for on how Ethereum's Security argument is being portrayed as a 'we are paying to much for security, lets drive price by burning fees' argument is playing out with this approved EIP. I felt it would be best said vs. the linear approach at writing the points. 

https://youtu.be/rfU-Mm3L2Yc

What are some of your stories for a possible future testimonial I will use in further discussions with Ethereum Developers. Help me tell them part of your mining story.

• How did you Discover Ethereum
• Do you mine? What was your first attempt, single GPU or a rig?
• What were your set expectations when you made that decision, based on what?
• Has the experience in ethereum mining change your life in anyway?
• What is your future planning with mining if ETH decides to drop fees and mining becomes net negative as network adjust?

You can add more to your story and I will try to include in one of my next upcoming videos. Thanks again for the correspondence my dudes. Cheers

Rally the troops Carter!

[Squezzi55]

Buterin want to stop miners from getting richy rich with this EIP1559 but he have neglect the fact that the main reason why all eye are on Ethereum is because it's the most profitable coin to mine, this will be his biggest mistake that buterin will make and he will regret it forever

Miners are workers so they have to get paid, this isn't a easy way of making money you have to invest lots of money on mining equipments and also pay for electricity bills too, I hope they drop the EIP 1559 because it won't worth mining Ethereum anymore if EIP 1559 happens

[Ardvark69]

Interestingly enough I will be on the 1559 panel in two weeks so if anyone has some good talking points let me know. As a miner I am definitely against lowering my income so my intent is to push for a compromise. We likely will have to give a little but I think they are open to compromise to avoid a large backlash. I think the EF is shocked that miners are speaking up as they are probably used to us being silent.

I do find it amazing that a lot of people are talking about how miners are making a lot right after ETH holders are experiencing a 20x+ return on investment in 1 year. I'm not even at a 2x return on my equipment purchase from July-Oct 2020. Its also pretty sad that a lot of saying miners are being greedy and we need 1599 to reduce fees or ETH prices will collapse despite one of the EF devs making a post stating that "1559 will not decrease fees".


My technical knowledge is lacking so I will be cramming everything in for the next two weeks.

The youtube link to the panel is below.

https://youtu.be/EdXhL6VR0mU

[btcshiner]

Interestingly enough I will be on the 1559 panel in two weeks so if anyone has some good talking points let me know. As a miner I am definitely against lowering my income so my intent is to push for a compromise. We likely will have to give a little but I think they are open to compromise to avoid a large backlash. I think the EF is shocked that miners are speaking up as they are probably used to us being silent.

I do find it amazing that a lot of people are talking about how miners are making a lot right after ETH holders are experiencing a 20x+ return on investment in 1 year. I'm not even at a 2x return on my equipment purchase from July-Oct 2020. Its also pretty sad that a lot of saying miners are being greedy and we need 1599 to reduce fees or ETH prices will collapse despite one of the EF devs making a post stating that "1559 will not decrease fees".


My technical knowledge is lacking so I will be cramming everything in for the next two weeks.

The youtube link to the panel is below.

https://youtu.be/EdXhL6VR0mU

From what I have read this proposal does not actually solve the high gas price.  The reason this proposal is being pushed is institutional investors like GreyScale think it will drive up prices as the base fee, that will still rise in congested times, will be burned causing there to be less and less ETH available thus increasing price due to scarcity.

A lot of people don't realize this will not immediately solve the issue of high gas prices and the institutional investors need a villain to rally the troops against push it through.  Thus miners who are making an investment into ETH just in a different way from traders are being vilified to push through something that is not good for the eco system as a whole.

A lot of new people to crypto don't realize that miners secure the network and are vital to the health of a coin.  This plan is only going to centralize the wealth of eth to large institutional investors and to keep the network secure they will need the help of large institutional asic farms or they will risk a split when this is implemented in a hard fork.

With the difficulty bomb coming this summer this plan should be pushed off until ETH is 100% POS.  This compromise will keep the chain secure until the effects of 1599 can be fully understood and a test chain of the hard fork properly tested for security flaws it will likely open up.

edit to add miners are not causing high gas prices or congestion on the chain.  Investors trading and trying to move tokens to take advantage of a moving market are.  This is about institutional investors wanting to make more money and squeeze it out of miners who "just keep the chain up and secure" so in their eyes we deserve less than they do.

[btcshiner]

Interestingly enough I will be on the 1559 panel in two weeks so if anyone has some good talking points let me know. As a miner I am definitely against lowering my income so my intent is to push for a compromise. We likely will have to give a little but I think they are open to compromise to avoid a large backlash. I think the EF is shocked that miners are speaking up as they are probably used to us being silent.

I do find it amazing that a lot of people are talking about how miners are making a lot right after ETH holders are experiencing a 20x+ return on investment in 1 year. I'm not even at a 2x return on my equipment purchase from July-Oct 2020. Its also pretty sad that a lot of saying miners are being greedy and we need 1599 to reduce fees or ETH prices will collapse despite one of the EF devs making a post stating that "1559 will not decrease fees".


My technical knowledge is lacking so I will be cramming everything in for the next two weeks.

The youtube link to the panel is below.

https://youtu.be/EdXhL6VR0mU

From what I have read this proposal does not actually solve the high gas price.  The reason this proposal is being pushed is institutional investors like GreyScale think it will drive up prices as the base fee, that will still rise in congested times, will be burned causing there to be less and less ETH available thus increasing price due to scarcity.

A lot of people don't realize this will not immediately solve the issue of high gas prices and the institutional investors need a villain to rally the troops against push it through.  Thus miners who are making an investment into ETH just in a different way from traders are being vilified to push through something that is not good for the eco system as a whole.

A lot of new people to crypto don't realize that miners secure the network and are vital to the health of a coin.  This plan is only going to centralize the wealth of eth to large institutional investors and to keep the network secure they will need the help of large institutional asic farms or they will risk a split when this is implemented in a hard fork.

With the difficulty bomb coming this summer this plan should be pushed off until ETH is 100% POS.  This compromise will keep the chain secure until the effects of 1599 can be fully understood and a test chain of the hard fork properly tested for security flaws it will likely open up.

edit to add miners are not causing high gas prices or congestion on the chain.  Investors trading and trying to move tokens to take advantage of a moving market are.  This is about institutional investors wanting to make more money and squeeze it out of miners who "just keep the chain up and secure" so in their eyes we deserve less than they do.

I was asked to expand on the difficulty bomb.  This was brought to my attention by another member in the thread below. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5309561.20

quoting this article: https://bravenewcoin.com/insights/ethereum-dodges-difficulty-bomb-with-last-minute-fork

"The difficulty bomb was first introduced to the network in the Homestead update of March 2016 and is designed to make the puzzles used to mine Ethereum blocks more difficult over time until eventually they are so difficult to solve it causes delays on the network. In this way, miners will be gradually incentivized to transition to a more sustainable network, before an 'Ice Age' is ushered in and they are forced to switch because mining has become unprofitable."

The difficulty bomb was delayed.  You can read more about why here

https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-2384

Countdown to when the "bomb" goes off and we transition to the "iceage"

https://etherscan.io/block/countdown/12800000

To sum this up, from my limited understanding, this is supposedly a way to force the dev's to a timeline that moves ETH to an all POS chain and a way to avoid a second chain that remains as POW by essentially making the current ETH chain unprofitable to mine and use.

[EdgeOfSanity]

Interestingly enough I will be on the 1559 panel in two weeks so if anyone has some good talking points let me know. As a miner I am definitely against lowering my income so my intent is to push for a compromise. We likely will have to give a little but I think they are open to compromise to avoid a large backlash. I think the EF is shocked that miners are speaking up as they are probably used to us being silent.

I do find it amazing that a lot of people are talking about how miners are making a lot right after ETH holders are experiencing a 20x+ return on investment in 1 year. I'm not even at a 2x return on my equipment purchase from July-Oct 2020. Its also pretty sad that a lot of saying miners are being greedy and we need 1599 to reduce fees or ETH prices will collapse despite one of the EF devs making a post stating that "1559 will not decrease fees".


My technical knowledge is lacking so I will be cramming everything in for the next two weeks.

The youtube link to the panel is below.

https://youtu.be/EdXhL6VR0mU

I'm in agreement that something needs to be done about the tx fees on the network and EIP-1559 is a good solution to that with a compromise. Allow EIP-1559 to go through but raise the block reward to at least 3 ETH and delay the diff bomb until the network is ready to transition to POS without mining. Until then they need miners, if they ignore us and shove it through as is I hope the network forks and causes havoc.

Another thing to bring up, this was always a GPU minable coin and a large number of miners aren't running huge farms to just dump the coin on the market. Many miners are investors. I may never have gotten into crypto if it weren't for ETH. I'm not selling, instead hodling long term because I believe in ETH. I'm just eating the electric, infrastructure, and equipment costs I have incurred.

[Ardvark69]

Interestingly enough I will be on the 1559 panel in two weeks so if anyone has some good talking points let me know. As a miner I am definitely against lowering my income so my intent is to push for a compromise. We likely will have to give a little but I think they are open to compromise to avoid a large backlash. I think the EF is shocked that miners are speaking up as they are probably used to us being silent.

I do find it amazing that a lot of people are talking about how miners are making a lot right after ETH holders are experiencing a 20x+ return on investment in 1 year. I'm not even at a 2x return on my equipment purchase from July-Oct 2020. Its also pretty sad that a lot of saying miners are being greedy and we need 1599 to reduce fees or ETH prices will collapse despite one of the EF devs making a post stating that "1559 will not decrease fees".


My technical knowledge is lacking so I will be cramming everything in for the next two weeks.

The youtube link to the panel is below.

https://youtu.be/EdXhL6VR0mU

I'm in agreement that something needs to be done about the tx fees on the network and EIP-1559 is a good solution to that with a compromise. Allow EIP-1559 to go through but raise the block reward to at least 3 ETH and delay the diff bomb until the network is ready to transition to POS without mining. Until then they need miners, if they ignore us and shove it through as is I hope the network forks and causes havoc.

Another thing to bring up, this was always a GPU minable coin and a large number of miners aren't running huge farms to just dump the coin on the market. Many miners are investors. I may never have gotten into crypto if it weren't for ETH. I'm not selling, instead hodling long term because I believe in ETH. I'm just eating the electric, infrastructure, and equipment costs I have incurred.

Personally I don't see 1559 as a "good" solution to the increased network usage and the gas fees that accompany it. I think we need to widen the road to allow more transactions either through more blocks or bigger blocks. As a miner I obviously would benefit from more transactions even if the gas was less and so would other stakeholders, I can't think of one good reason why we wouldn't want to expand eth's capacity.

[Skinny48]

Interestingly enough I will be on the 1559 panel in two weeks so if anyone has some good talking points let me know. As a miner I am definitely against lowering my income so my intent is to push for a compromise. We likely will have to give a little but I think they are open to compromise to avoid a large backlash. I think the EF is shocked that miners are speaking up as they are probably used to us being silent.

I do find it amazing that a lot of people are talking about how miners are making a lot right after ETH holders are experiencing a 20x+ return on investment in 1 year. I'm not even at a 2x return on my equipment purchase from July-Oct 2020. Its also pretty sad that a lot of saying miners are being greedy and we need 1599 to reduce fees or ETH prices will collapse despite one of the EF devs making a post stating that "1559 will not decrease fees".


My technical knowledge is lacking so I will be cramming everything in for the next two weeks.

The youtube link to the panel is below.

https://youtu.be/EdXhL6VR0mU

I'm in agreement that something needs to be done about the tx fees on the network and EIP-1559 is a good solution to that with a compromise. Allow EIP-1559 to go through but raise the block reward to at least 3 ETH and delay the diff bomb until the network is ready to transition to POS without mining. Until then they need miners, if they ignore us and shove it through as is I hope the network forks and causes havoc.

Another thing to bring up, this was always a GPU minable coin and a large number of miners aren't running huge farms to just dump the coin on the market. Many miners are investors. I may never have gotten into crypto if it weren't for ETH. I'm not selling, instead hodling long term because I believe in ETH. I'm just eating the electric, infrastructure, and equipment costs I have incurred.

Personally I don't see 1559 as a "good" solution to the increased network usage and the gas fees that accompany it. I think we need to widen the road to allow more transactions either through more blocks or bigger blocks. As a miner I obviously would benefit from more transactions even if the gas was less and so would other stakeholders, I can't think of one good reason why we wouldn't want to expand eth's capacity.

I hope vitalik can see this right now, abandoning proof of work algorithm is not cool, the PoW algorithm is a part of why Ethereum is this big today, many old projects switched to PoS along the line and it doesn't favour them marely looking at how things turned out for the projects