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Author Topic: Idea for an inflationary Bitcoin with (automatic-)regulated supply  (Read 161 times)
tradri (OP)
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January 16, 2021, 12:57:02 AM
 #1

Hey guys, it has been pretty obvious from the beginning that Bitcoin is a deflationary currency.
For a store of value this is essential, but not so much for a currency in the modern economy, where the economy is doing good if people spend/invest their money rather than just hold currency.

Would it, therefore, be a reasonable idea to create an alternative Bitcoin that has the max supply cap removed?
Furthermore, the block reward can be adjusted dynamically based on the current mining difficulty. The idea being, that in times when the currency increases in price, more miners join to make a profit. If then the block reward increases with that mining difficulty, the surplus supply will cause the price of the currency to be lowered. (similarly to how printing lots of FIAT lowers its value). Then, in times when there aren't many miners around the mining difficulty drops, which also leads to a lower block reward. This in turn causes the currency to be more valuable, because less is printed. This system could lead to a currency that is far more stable, because the money printing counteracts periods of times when the currency is over/undervalued.

Let me know what you think and if any of this makes sense Smiley
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Charles-Tim
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January 16, 2021, 01:10:32 AM
 #2

Hey guys, it has been pretty obvious from the beginning that Bitcoin is a deflationary currency.
That is why bitcoin is valuable.

Would it, therefore, be a reasonable idea to create an alternative Bitcoin that has the max supply cap removed?
Inflationary useless coin will be created, a coin which will even be worthless than the fiat of underdeveloped and developing countries.

Furthermore, the block reward can be adjusted dynamically based on the current mining difficulty. The idea being, that in times when the currency increases in price, more miners join to make a profit
What profit can someone make from unlimited coin without no max, unlimited coin is a useless coin. No miner will even mine it, miners will mine profitable ones like bitcoin. Such coin can not exist, it will remain dead right from its beginning.

If then the block reward increases with that mining difficulty, the surplus supply will cause the price of the currency to be lowered. (similarly to how printing lots of FIAT lowers its value)
No need to waste time, CBDC will just be the best solution, coins pegged with fiat. Although, it will be nothing compared to Bitcoin.

This system could lead to a currency that is far more stable, because the money printing counteracts periods of times when the currency is over/undervalued.
It will only lead to a dead coin, like I said, CBDC is the answer so far you are talking about the coin that will mimic fiat.

Let me know what you think and if any of this makes sense Smiley
Do not see this as a ridicule, it does not make any sense at all.

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January 16, 2021, 04:25:12 AM
 #3

That's an altcoin.

When people talk about creating a Bitcoin with fundamentally different principles from Bitcoin for which the general consensus isn't reached, it is an altcoin. A fixed market cap is possibly one of the few things that Bitcoin shouldn't have to change as it doesn't necessarily pose a problem to Bitcoin as a currency. I don't believe you should adjust the block reward based on the difficulty as this will result in the price instability when compared to other cryptos or fiat. When the crypto isn't valued in terms of some other currency, it could make sense. Steady inflation isn't impossible and it has been done. It's viability as a currency remains to be seen.

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January 16, 2021, 08:04:57 AM
 #4

For a store of value this is essential, but not so much for a currency in the modern economy,
Just because something has been in a certain way that doesn't mean that way was the correct way.
So far currencies were centralized, issued and controlled by the government and banks and had unlimited supply. It doesn't mean all of these are necessary to have a "currency" and anything that doesn't have these characteristics is not a currency!

You are also forgetting that the main reason why bitcoin value has been rising nonstop is not because it has a capped supply, but it is because its adoption (aka demand) has been increasing. Keep in mind that supply has been increasing a lot too. Right now 900 new coins are being "printed" every day.

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fiulpro
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January 16, 2021, 09:19:25 AM
 #5

What you are saying right now is  actually what everyone who don't have btc reserved plus those who wish to become early adopters of something valuable are right now wishing about. But unfortunately I do think that you understand that fact that there is now no originality in making new cryptocurrencies, would be dead in months if not weeks plus why do you think that people call USD and other currencies a bubble. Why do you think people keep on looking for better options?

The whole idea is not to have something unlimited!! It wouldn't just be misused but at the same time it would be extremely close to what a fiat is but would just be defi.

The reason why it's valued is because of it's fixed supply. It is essential that you understand th fact that not everything would be coming to us with new opportunities. We should invest more in upgrading them , we need more soft forks to solve some issues and at the same time we need something different in contrast to fiat which btc is in every matter and other than that I do believe that ETH is also future proof because of it's technology.

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January 16, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
 #6


Would it, therefore, be a reasonable idea to create an alternative Bitcoin that has the max supply cap removed?
Furthermore, the block reward can be adjusted dynamically based on the current mining difficulty. The idea being, that in times when the currency increases in price, more miners join to make a profit. If then the block reward increases with that mining difficulty, the surplus supply will cause the price of the currency to be lowered

in my opinion this is not a good idea. because you are trying to come up with an idea to reverse the position of bitcoin to change into fiat money and vice versa fiat money is turned into bitcoin?
inflation automatically switches to bitcoin and deflation is even owned by fiat money. I strongly disagree, and if this is done it will only make bitcoin value no longer special.

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January 16, 2021, 01:04:24 PM
 #7

This idea won't work, Bitcoin's price is not strongly correlated to its supply on short time scale. It would have some effect on price stability, but it will not make it as stable as fiat currency.

The only argument for inflationary Bitcoin that is worth considering is if the network's hashing power and security can not be sustained without the block subsidy. But this will be a problem for future generations, so there's no point in preparing for it now.

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KonstantinosM
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January 16, 2021, 01:47:18 PM
 #8

You can always make an altcoin. But you're not making a bitcoin with different traits.

Bitcoin's identity is based on the 21 million limit. No-one wants that lifted.


Something I'd be interested in is an altcoin that provides fairer distribution by having a couple of reward doublings/increases before it has reward halvings/decreases so that the very first people don't get a ridiculous advantage over everyone else.

And even this issue is one that bitcoin didn't really have, since it didn't really have a value for a long time and people could have just mined on their CPU.

Of course most people showed up later, but even then, people had a chance to get a little bit before the price went up.



A more important problem to solve is POW that allows individuals to get a decent distribution/stake in the network. I don't know the solution to that. Masternodes is an interesting one. But that is very un-bitcoin like.

Syscoin has the best of Bitcoin and Ethereum in one place, it's merge mined with Bitcoin so it is plugged into Bitcoin's ecosystem and takes full advantage of it's POW while rewarding Bitcoin miners with Syscoin
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January 16, 2021, 02:15:59 PM
 #9

Would it, therefore, be a reasonable idea to create an alternative Bitcoin that has the max supply cap removed?

Someone came up with that idea a long time ago before you, and as a result we have 105 forks according to the data on the next site -> https://forkdrop.io/how-many-bitcoin-forks-are-there

Most did not go in the direction of changing the max supply, but there are those who, for example, did just that, so we have a max supply of as much as 211 billion (at least according to what I reviewed). As other members have already written, each copy is just a copy and nothing more, you are free to call it altcoin or whatever you want.

Of all these forks, only one had, so to speak, a significant impact in a short period of time - but today its only advantage is that it is 100 times cheaper than the original and inexperienced users sometimes buy it thinking they bought real Bitcoin.

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tradri (OP)
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January 16, 2021, 04:26:03 PM
 #10

First of all, I would like to thank you guys for posting such critical comments, as they are much more helpful than positive ones.

I would just like to expand further on my arguments, but feel free to tell me if there are any flaws in my line of reasoning.

To start, something can be valuable without being deflationary, at least in the short run.
If the process of inflating the currency is strictly regulated and doesn't happen on the desires of politicians, I can imagine it being a more trustworthy alternative to FIAT currency.
Also, I never said that the supply of this currency should be unlimited, as the supply is strictly determined by the mining difficulty. Since hashpower isn't unlimited, the supply can't be unlimited.

Of course, it was never my intention to change Bitcoin's protocol. Bitcoin is doing a fabulous job at creating digital scarcity, at the expense of providing a currency that people want to spend. The proposed cryptocurrency will of course be an "alternative" cryptocurrency.

Can you guys please explain why the block reward can't act as a way to regulate the price? From my basic understanding, when the price is higher, it's more profitable to mine, which leads to more miners, which leads to a higher mining difficulty, which then can be used to increase the supply and bring the price back to the "normal" level. And the opposite for periods of time when the currency is undervalued. When the currency's price is low, it becomes more scarce, which should increase its price. Does this make sense from a crypto-economics standpoint?

Furthermore, some of you guys think it's more desirable to have a deflationary currency, but I am pretty sure that most economists agree that a slow and steady rate of inflation is good for the economy. The idea being, that it's better to incentivize people to spend/invest money into the economy so that money can circulate and raise the living standards for everyone. Of what use is wealth if it just sits around and doesn't produce goods for all of us to live a better life?

Also, I'm pretty sure that 99% of the reason why Bitcoin's price is increasing is that people FOMO in at every bull run so far, in hopes of profits, not because they actually want to buy something with it.

Of course, I'm saying all that because I don't hold a big number of Bitcoins. It's always the ones that aren't profiting from a system that are looking for a better alternative. The way Bitcoin is right now is that the early adopters have disproportionally large holdings of Bitcoin. It might be a fair argument to say "well bitcoin is open you should have gone into bitcoin in 2009/2010/2011, it's your fault". That's a fair argument to say to many people but not someone like me who is 17 years old. I was a literal baby when Bitcoin started. Of course, that seems unfair to me, obviously. The fact that some millennials easily mined thousands of Bitcoin while I might be lucky if I can acquire one bitcoin in my lifetime if the price increase like it has been, just because they were around at that time. I don't think I or generations after me would like to put up with that. Again, for a store of value, it's perfectly fine, because gold has/had the same unequal distribution (which is why so many wars and revolutions happened that took all the gold they could away from people). But why should a currency have the same unequal distribution over time? An inflationary currency would not incentivize people to hoard it because it would be worth less and less over time.

Also, I don't necessarily wish to become an early adopter of this currency and profit over time, although I don't have a problem with getting rich of inventions/innovations. The fact that the currency is inflationary doesn't make it a very good "early adopter catches the worm" type situation.

Of course, there is no new originality in making just any new cryptocurrency, but if there isn't a cryptocurrency that addresses this issue yet while having the potential of providing a steadily inflationary, more stable cryptocurrency, I don't see a reason why one couldn't try it.

I think people are calling USD and other FIAT currencies a bubble because they are so unpredictable. Any politician can just go out and print as much as they like. This doesn't mean that a slow, predictable, irrevisable rule for inflation can't be a good thing, right?

I think Bitcoin's sharp price increases are due to its fixed supply. If one could regulate the supply algorithmically to adjust for such crazy price differences one could have a more stable currency.

Also, I don't see a problem with why an unstable mining difficulty is a bad thing. Sure, mining the currency will become unprofitable thus reducing the total numbers of miners from time to time. But there are so many other cryptocurrencies to mine that they can easily switch to mining a different cryptocurrency when it becomes unprofitable and switch back to mining this currency when it becomes profitable again.

Of course, it won't be a perfectly stable coin like Tether, but the idea is to at least move in the right direction while still being as decentralized as Bitcoin.

Again I'm not looking for a way to replace "real" Bitcoin, as Bitcoin isn't even pretending to be a normal currency anymore I think. Bitcoin is digital gold, and that's ok. Would this proposal move us closer to an actual digital currency?

This is my response to the replies so far, and thanks again for being critical Smiley
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January 17, 2021, 07:26:37 AM
 #11

Can you guys please explain why the block reward can't act as a way to regulate the price? From my basic understanding, when the price is higher, it's more profitable to mine, which leads to more miners, which leads to a higher mining difficulty, which then can be used to increase the supply and bring the price back to the "normal" level. And the opposite for periods of time when the currency is undervalued. When the currency's price is low, it becomes more scarce, which should increase its price. Does this make sense from a crypto-economics standpoint?
Determining price needs some sort of centralization, you have to find a centralized market where the price is decided in and fetch the value they give you and use that in a decentralized system. It is almost impossible to avoid manipulation and create that kind of link between the two worlds.
Another issue is that price is not majorly affected by "new coins" but instead by "total circulating supply".

Additionally there is what I call unrealistic market states which you can't automatically determine with code in a decentralized system. Like this:
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Also, I'm pretty sure that 99% of the reason why Bitcoin's price is increasing is that people FOMO in at every bull run so far, in hopes of profits, not because they actually want to buy something with it.
That's true about anything and in short term. It is also true about when price has significant drops.
For example the $20,000 (top, overpriced) price was as unrealistic in 2017 as $3200 (bottom, underpriced) was in 2019 or $150 in 2014.
It is not possible to design a system that adjusts its block reward based on such a volatile market that can be manipulated a lot more in a smaller altcoin market.

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The idea being, that it's better to incentivize people to spend/invest money into the economy so that money can circulate and raise the living standards for everyone.
The incentive to invest money is never about doing it because it is losing its value (being inflationary). The incentive is always about wanting to make more money that is also usually way above the inflation rate.

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But why should a currency have the same unequal distribution over time?
Bitcoin is not distributed among people, they chose to buy it themselves by dumping their fiat and those who did it earlier took a much bigger risk than anybody who would do it today when they didn't even know if bitcoin could ever celebrate its first birthday let alone reach such high prices!
Additionally why should you even care about distribution of a currency? Bitcoin is a tool, it is like not buying a car to use for your day to day travels because some people own more than 50 cars and you can't even afford to buy 50 cars!

I think your problem is that despite calling bitcoin a currency you are still thinking about the fiat profit you could make from it not what it actually can offer you as a currency.

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Of course, there is no new originality in making just any new cryptocurrency, but if there isn't a cryptocurrency that addresses this issue yet while having the potential of providing a steadily inflationary, more stable cryptocurrency, I don't see a reason why one couldn't try it.
They have tried all kinds of variations of it. Capped, unlimited, centralized, semi-centralized, decentralized, burning extra coins when price tanks, printing more coins when price goes up,...

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20kevin20
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January 17, 2021, 09:05:05 AM
 #12

As far as I've seen, the price usually soars years after the halving happens. Remember that miners have to constantly upgrade their equipment, so a sudden rise in hashrate doesn't happen out of nowhere. The more time goes by and the more tech advances, the higher the hashrate will be. Hence, it's quite hard to tell whether it increases due to new miners or due to new equipment.

People always miss out on things. If you feel like you've missed on BTC and wish you had invested in it/mined it back in 2009, think of all the people who've bought Apple stocks decades ago. Not everything is always fair. And then, if you think Bitcoin users from 2009 held their coins up to $40k, you're very wrong! Imagine Bitcoin soared from $35,000 to $4,000,000,000 within 10 years. If you aren't going to sell at $100k, I highly doubt you will NOT stop at $250k, $500k, $1M ... damn it, fine, maybe at $10M! The larger % of the oldest Bitcoin users are not rich today. In fact, some of them probably have less BTC than we do.

For the current geniuses and tech we have in this world, Bitcoin is as fair and decentralized as it can be. The deflationary nature of it is amazing as an asset used for storing value. I agree that it has flaws and pretty much "failed" so far as a currency, and flaws will always exist no matter how many things we change. Your idea is indeed interestin.g, but I'm not sure how well it'd go once put into action.
figmentofmyass
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January 17, 2021, 01:02:26 PM
 #13

Can you guys please explain why the block reward can't act as a way to regulate the price? From my basic understanding, when the price is higher, it's more profitable to mine, which leads to more miners, which leads to a higher mining difficulty, which then can be used to increase the supply and bring the price back to the "normal" level.

price can't be regulated in a decentralized way---it's completely external to the protocol. the mechanism you're referring to just regulates the bitcoin emission rate, retargeting difficulty so that blocks are produced roughly every 10 minutes.

Also, I'm pretty sure that 99% of the reason why Bitcoin's price is increasing is that people FOMO in at every bull run so far, in hopes of profits, not because they actually want to buy something with it.
The fact that the currency is inflationary doesn't make it a very good "early adopter catches the worm" type situation.

a key issue you're touching on here is that the prospect of a deflationary currency bootstraps bitcoin adoption. if people think bitcoins will rise in value, that's a huge incentive for them to adopt.

that dynamic doesn't exist with an inflationary currency that is intended to dilute the value of your holdings over time.

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January 17, 2021, 01:15:02 PM
 #14

Hey guys, it has been pretty obvious from the beginning that Bitcoin is a deflationary currency.
For a store of value this is essential, but not so much for a currency in the modern economy, where the economy is doing good if people spend/invest their money rather than just hold currency.

Would it, therefore, be a reasonable idea to create an alternative Bitcoin that has the max supply cap removed?
Furthermore, the block reward can be adjusted dynamically based on the current mining difficulty. The idea being, that in times when the currency increases in price, more miners join to make a profit. If then the block reward increases with that mining difficulty, the surplus supply will cause the price of the currency to be lowered. (similarly to how printing lots of FIAT lowers its value). Then, in times when there aren't many miners around the mining difficulty drops, which also leads to a lower block reward. This in turn causes the currency to be more valuable, because less is printed. This system could lead to a currency that is far more stable, because the money printing counteracts periods of times when the currency is over/undervalued.

Let me know what you think and if any of this makes sense Smiley

It is funny to think that Bitcoin is created to contradict the ever inflation of fiat but you suggested for Bitcoin production to be like fiat.  It is a cool concept indeed but it should be implemented to a newly created cryptocurrency since the Bitcoin system and concept had already been inculcated on people's minds and had been successful in creating value.  It will be disastrous to the Bitcoin ecosystem if all of a sudden its specification is changed.  So I don't agree with implementing your idea to Bitcoin protocol.

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tradri (OP)
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January 17, 2021, 03:20:42 PM
 #15

I see your points guys. I thought the idea was original but I realized that stablecoins are a well-known type of cryptocurrency and have been studied for quite some time now.

Anyway, thanks for the thought experiment Smiley
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